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Sorry, stopped reading after this. Nothing personal.skyled said:
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Elysium [2013]
- Thread starter elbarto1
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We watched this a week ago. Not a huge fan of the message...
It was decent as a sci-fi action movie though.
So what you're telling me, is now that Elysium is open to everyone, it won't get trashed and destroyed like Earth? Or those controlling access to it won't run it just like the previous leaders and limit and control who comes? And what about those health pods they dropped down on Earth? How long will those go on until people are killing each other in line to get first and eventually destroy those as well? That Hollywood ending wouldn't last much longer than the end credits...
The people's problem wasn't the fact that someone else had something nice and they didn't... So the solution wouldn't be to give them the "nice stuff" too...
The people's problem wasn't the fact that someone else had something nice and they didn't... So the solution wouldn't be to give them the "nice stuff" too...
It was decent as a sci-fi action movie though.
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Solid11 said:
If you're one of the poor people from this movie and if you have a health problem, then you bet you'll want to try one of those shiny medpods that they have above the clouds! If you don't have some and you know it exists, then it will become your number one problem.
Of course sending few medpods will not save every people on earth (and of course sending all the poor people on Eslysium could not work either) but it's the seed of a change. The whole movie is an allegory and very focused on Damon's problem. The medpods just represent what people needs to survive. Damon just represents someone who need to survive. Elysium represents the fact that Damon is not scheduled to survive according to some rules made by few.
To me the moral of the story is not "There are rich and poor and it's not fair, so the poor have the right to take what they don't have". It's more "Let's share a bit of what you have because if you don't, one day or another someone will have to steal it from you". Not because it's not "fair" or because he will think you're an asshole and would want vengeance, nor because his political view is the opposite of yours. No. He will steal it from you because he could not do otherwise to survive. Damon is not the leader of a political revolution here. At least it's not his goal. We see him dreaming to be part of Elysium as a child and we almost never see him having bad thoughts against what Elysium is. On the contrary, Elysium means everything for him. He just wants to save his own ass and then, at the end, he understand that the whole thing is bigger than his own story.
So I kind of like the message of the movie from this point of view. Sharing new technologies and welfare with everyone should not be a political point of view. It should be common sens.
(That said... "sharing" what you have should not mean "forcing" people who don't want to share your way of life to do it. That's the tricky part!)
Of course sending few medpods will not save every people on earth (and of course sending all the poor people on Eslysium could not work either) but it's the seed of a change. The whole movie is an allegory and very focused on Damon's problem. The medpods just represent what people needs to survive. Damon just represents someone who need to survive. Elysium represents the fact that Damon is not scheduled to survive according to some rules made by few.
To me the moral of the story is not "There are rich and poor and it's not fair, so the poor have the right to take what they don't have". It's more "Let's share a bit of what you have because if you don't, one day or another someone will have to steal it from you". Not because it's not "fair" or because he will think you're an asshole and would want vengeance, nor because his political view is the opposite of yours. No. He will steal it from you because he could not do otherwise to survive. Damon is not the leader of a political revolution here. At least it's not his goal. We see him dreaming to be part of Elysium as a child and we almost never see him having bad thoughts against what Elysium is. On the contrary, Elysium means everything for him. He just wants to save his own ass and then, at the end, he understand that the whole thing is bigger than his own story.
So I kind of like the message of the movie from this point of view. Sharing new technologies and welfare with everyone should not be a political point of view. It should be common sens.
(That said... "sharing" what you have should not mean "forcing" people who don't want to share your way of life to do it. That's the tricky part!)
That's the issue for me - is that if the moral is to share before someone comes and takes it by force - it's still the wrong message to send... People should share and give because they have an honest desire to help people, not because they are coerced or forced by some other means.
A better moral to me would have been if people from Elysium taught people from Earth how to build those pods and be self-sufficient - that would have been TRULY helping them long term... and that would have been a message I could have been on board with.
Yeah, it should be common sense, but that's the problem - it depends on your worldview if it's common sense... It's common sense to me, to help people and give to those in need, because of my worldview. To others, "The strongest survive, why help the weak?" - it's not common sense to them...
A better moral to me would have been if people from Elysium taught people from Earth how to build those pods and be self-sufficient - that would have been TRULY helping them long term... and that would have been a message I could have been on board with.
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Nah, the message was that everyone has the right to good health care, everyone should have the opportunity to live wherever they want, and some rich people just don't know how to empathize.
Also, my guess would be that it was the people on earth actually making those med pods in the factories. As TMBTM said this was more of Damon's story. So the ending of the movie didn't delve into the specifics. But if it did, which wouldn't work from a story telling stand point, the med pods that were sent down to earth were just a, relative, band aid. With the laxer (fairer) laws that would be put in place, the, and this is speculation, robots and people running the factories won't just send the new med pods being made to Elysium, but to places on earth as well.
In terms of getting to a point where earthlings can actually be able to be rich and stuff, that would involve policy changes and such, getting schools set up, cleaning things up, all that. Like I said before, it wouldn't make sense to deal with that in the movie. So making the message about how to make the earthlings become more self sufficient would mean that the entire movie was different - it wouldn't be about an ex con trying to make his way to Elysium, it would be about a real political revolution.
In terms of getting to a point where earthlings can actually be able to be rich and stuff, that would involve policy changes and such, getting schools set up, cleaning things up, all that. Like I said before, it wouldn't make sense to deal with that in the movie. So making the message about how to make the earthlings become more self sufficient would mean that the entire movie was different - it wouldn't be about an ex con trying to make his way to Elysium, it would be about a real political revolution.
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I'll add another thing, the political aspects are underlying themes. They're obvious, yes, but they're not the whole thing. So the messages are mostly just broader ideas.
And yeah, when you think about it, the earthlings throughout the film are entirely self sufficient. The heroes don't get help from anyone on Elysium. Spider built his base and crew all by himself. Kruger and his buds are in cahoots with those on Elysium, but they use their own tools to get what they want, at least for the most part. And they turn on the Elysiumeers by, obviously, their own accord.
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I haven't yet seen the moovie but for me it's amust-see - District 9 was fantastic. The themes of Apartheid haunt his work and with good reason - to be trapped without hope, to be forced into a role whether you like it or not and there's no way out.
It's also worth remembering that in world terms WE are Elysium, and the ROW is Earth.... (just like in Hunger Games - we are not the Districts - we are the Capitol). Compared to the Majority World, we live in paradise, with entertainment, food on tap, medical facilities bordering on the miraculous. Be thankful for where we live folks! And think about how we can help those less well-off (whether that's buying fairtrade, or choosing to shop where you know which suppliers they use, or getting into politics to shape economic policy... etc!)
It's also worth remembering that in world terms WE are Elysium, and the ROW is Earth.... (just like in Hunger Games - we are not the Districts - we are the Capitol). Compared to the Majority World, we live in paradise, with entertainment, food on tap, medical facilities bordering on the miraculous. Be thankful for where we live folks! And think about how we can help those less well-off (whether that's buying fairtrade, or choosing to shop where you know which suppliers they use, or getting into politics to shape economic policy... etc!)
Zak Shannon
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I saw this over the weekend and the only thing I have to add is that it was an okay popcorn flick. I don't know if the is just a watered down Blomkamp big budget feature or if he is just a one hit wonder. I was very underwhelmed and to be honest my expectations weren't that high going in.
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Just watched this, and hated it.
The first hour, mind you, was well done and I really enjoyed it.
Couldn't maintain, though. Could not at all.
Hopefully, someone will make an edit of this one that ends in a more logical direction.
The first hour, mind you, was well done and I really enjoyed it.
Couldn't maintain, though. Could not at all.
The final fistfight seemed to go on and on.
Less is more, please.
More to the point, making all the swamp rats down on Zion citizens was ridiculous, feel good nonsense.
OK, you heal all the diseased, out of work, empty souls, who live longer, don't have anything else much to do except spawn and make more sweaty, shiftless unemployed. Anyone heard of birth control?
Where were they getting food, anyway? Clean water - drinking water?
The Elysium inhabitants (who seemed to just wander about holding a flute of champagne) paid in good faith for isolation and exclusivity. Last thing they would tolerate is Revolution (be it French, Russian, or Occupy), and they should have fought it much harder than simple deportation.
The feel good ending was fake, and the film would have been stronger had Max (Damon) been killed and died for absolutely nothing. Unless he carried some highly contagious, kills in minutes disease, which laid waste the happy, floating ferris wheel.
Less is more, please.
More to the point, making all the swamp rats down on Zion citizens was ridiculous, feel good nonsense.
OK, you heal all the diseased, out of work, empty souls, who live longer, don't have anything else much to do except spawn and make more sweaty, shiftless unemployed. Anyone heard of birth control?
Where were they getting food, anyway? Clean water - drinking water?
The Elysium inhabitants (who seemed to just wander about holding a flute of champagne) paid in good faith for isolation and exclusivity. Last thing they would tolerate is Revolution (be it French, Russian, or Occupy), and they should have fought it much harder than simple deportation.
The feel good ending was fake, and the film would have been stronger had Max (Damon) been killed and died for absolutely nothing. Unless he carried some highly contagious, kills in minutes disease, which laid waste the happy, floating ferris wheel.
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Vultural said:
If it was all for nothing, then what's the point? One of the messages I took away from the movie was that even one person can help to affect change. Maybe not to the point that Max did, but still. If he had died before anything was done, it could inspire more people to try and do something. That would end it on a more hopeful note than a happy one, necessarily.
I think part of the problem with Elysium is that the studio had a bigger hand in it. There was an interview in Entertainment Weekly where Blomkamp said that Sony wanted him to use bankable names, hence why he cast Jodi Foster and Matt Damon. Granted, he said that he enjoyed working with them greatly, and I believe that, but I can't help but wonder if Sony had a hand in the ending as well. D9 ended hopeful, but not happy.
I'll watch this again when it's out on BD and see what, if anything, can be done.
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Even the smallest person can make a difference?
Not in my bleak view. Even Master Frodo had help.
There were so many grim endings in the 70s.
Now? Hardly any, especially from Hollywood.
Or does the fate of Stuntman Mike count?
Not in my bleak view. Even Master Frodo had help.
There were so many grim endings in the 70s.
Now? Hardly any, especially from Hollywood.
Or does the fate of Stuntman Mike count?
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Max had help, too, if you remember. Remember, Elysium is a film that is commenting on the state of the world today, and a grim ending would basically undermine the whole thing say "This is the way the world is and there isn't a damned thing you can do to change it. All hail the status quo." Again, the movie could do with a hopeful ending, not necessarily a happy ending. As far as Stuntman Mike goes, it all depends on who you were rooting for.
Remember, Elysium is a film that is commenting on the state of the world today, and a grim ending would basically undermine the whole thing say "This is the way the world is and there isn't a damned thing you can do to change it. All hail the status quo." Again, the movie could do with a hopeful ending, not necessarily a happy ending. As far as Stuntman Mike goes, it all depends on who you were rooting for.
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The world is not quite in that state. Yet.
If one accepts the idea / fact of finite resources (at least with our current level of scientific advancement), then it stands to reason the more users of said resources (consumers) will accelerate the endgame scenario.
That was the world they set up early on, yet they could not stream the narrative to logical conclusions.
In Elysium, space travel had become a reality. Robots were keeping control over the mass of humanity.
One would think there would be enough science to limit reproduction to one child.
Unless, like illegal immigrants, the powers that be wanted a vast poll of expendable labor.
But the story only glanced off that concept, which would have been chilling if more open.
The whole story deserved a better conclusion. If they were dead set on a hopeful ending, then they ought to have used a lot more intelligence instead of resorting to Mighty Mouse and "here I am to save the day."
A negotiated settlement, a reason why the elites would decide to cooperate with the rabble.
Though in almost all successful revolutions, blood is the winning argument.
If one accepts the idea / fact of finite resources (at least with our current level of scientific advancement), then it stands to reason the more users of said resources (consumers) will accelerate the endgame scenario.
That was the world they set up early on, yet they could not stream the narrative to logical conclusions.
In Elysium, space travel had become a reality. Robots were keeping control over the mass of humanity.
One would think there would be enough science to limit reproduction to one child.
Unless, like illegal immigrants, the powers that be wanted a vast poll of expendable labor.
But the story only glanced off that concept, which would have been chilling if more open.
The whole story deserved a better conclusion. If they were dead set on a hopeful ending, then they ought to have used a lot more intelligence instead of resorting to Mighty Mouse and "here I am to save the day."
A negotiated settlement, a reason why the elites would decide to cooperate with the rabble.
Though in almost all successful revolutions, blood is the winning argument.
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RollWave said:
Yes, coercion works, as well.
India has also been following a similar path for several years.
The tactic of aborting girl fetuses, keeping boys, will begin to flower soon.
Interesting that Elysium still draws discussion on current topics.
Hopefully, the BluRay offers enough extras and deleted scenes for an editor to do an overhaul.
Trim overlong fighting, show more of Elysium.
I don't want to sound too much like the late Gene Siskel.
He would often complain about what the film was not - or could have been - instead of the film as it was.
Of course, this being a site primarily of editors, coulda and shoulda are real alternatives.
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I don't see why it wouldn't draw discussion. After all, it's still a recent film and it's still relevant.
I agree with trimming overlong fighting, but I'd almost consider toying around with a version that didn't show Elysium until the end. The film is about the "us and them" divide, and by doing that, it not only drives that a bit, but also makes the reveal that it actually is all that (and a bag of chips) more impactful.
I agree with trimming overlong fighting, but I'd almost consider toying around with a version that didn't show Elysium until the end. The film is about the "us and them" divide, and by doing that, it not only drives that a bit, but also makes the reveal that it actually is all that (and a bag of chips) more impactful.
I still would love to make the ending more true to how our current world is - and have all of the people on Earth killing each other over the use of the health pods, only to leave Earthlings in a worse state than before...
Elysium was now down for - leaving openly evil people to run it instead of run of the mill corrupt politicians - Elysium wouldn't be paradise anymore, it would just look like Earth.
Kind of depressing to think about, but that's how I imagine people would act based on the way our world is going...
Elysium was now down for - leaving openly evil people to run it instead of run of the mill corrupt politicians - Elysium wouldn't be paradise anymore, it would just look like Earth.
Kind of depressing to think about, but that's how I imagine people would act based on the way our world is going...
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Vultural said:
Just watched it, and I agree completely. There were some flaws with the first half, but it was intriguing and entertaining, culminating in the fantastic action of the heist scene. And then it all goes to crap, culminating in a super boring fight scene.
Missed opportunity, too bad.