Dune 2 (2024)

[Moe_Syzlak]

I had a BIG problem with BR2049 due to the glacial pace of the editing, it didn't just feel slow, it was to the point of sitting there and wondering when, or if the film would ever move to another shot. But I went into DuneP1 with an open mind and was pleasantly surprised by how brisk the editing was, paced just right. I didn't notice DuneP2 having obviously slack editing like 2049, but I wonder if Villeneuve took his foot off the pedal again editing wise, when he's not worried about having another box office disaster on his balance sheet.

Another few random thoughts... I noticed he went with Irulan doing a similar exposition voiceover like he was homaging Lynch's intro. Still no spacing guild stuff? Was there really no time for it across two long movies?

See I agree with you in 2049’s pacing. It could’ve still been a slow burn a la the original paced much more briskly as you deftly showed with you Aerodynamik edit. But I actually found p2 to be way too quick. So. ….

IIRC you also didn’t like the cinematography of 2049 and felt it was bland. On that note (and of course these two movies), I couldn’t disagree more. I found almost every shot to be sumptuously compelling and just a joy to take in. I was really disappointed that Deakins wasn’t shooting these movies when it was announced but I was definitely wrong. Fraser did an amazing job.

 

[tremault]

I haven't seen part two yet so I don't know when this scene takes place now why there is an explosion. but if you want my opinion I'd say that the original shows me a character powerless in front of an explosion. He is smaller and 'surrounded' by it.
The edited picture shows me a character who may have something to do with this explosion. Either he made it happen or he is waiting for it to resolves before taking advantage of its aftermaths. The composition on the edited version feels more ''dynamic'', more engaged in the action kind of...
I'm curious to know if I'm close in either case.... but this maybe spoiler area!
that was my two cents

It could be spoiler-y but I appreciate the analysis.

You can read the below once you've seen the movie.



Of course, I'd say it's bang on, I feel that moment was meant to depict Paul in a position of power, delivering a devastating attack on the Emperor. Your analysis on the original really goes to show how flat this movie was. I'm not entirely sure how the director thought this was a good shot. Maybe there's some subtext I missed?

 

[DonKamillo]

IIRC you also didn’t like the cinematography of 2049 and felt it was bland. On that note (and of course these two movies), I couldn’t disagree more. I found almost every shot to be sumptuously compelling and just a joy to take in. I was really disappointed that Deakins wasn’t shooting these movies when it was announced but I was definitely wrong. Fraser did an amazing job.

Villeneuve is generally a slow burn type of director, be it in Prisoners, Arival, 2049 or Dune. But IMO his movies always hit the right balance of gradually building up the tension while never becoming boring.

But I actually found p2 to be way too quick.

"The first movie was more meditative and contemplative. We were following a young man discovering a new planet, a new culture...
The second movie… it’s more of an action film than the first part. It’s more muscular."
- Denis Villeneuve

 

[Gieferg]

right balance of gradually building up the tension while never becoming boring.

I was totally bored by Dune and Sicario and completely didnt care what is happening, while I am considering BR2049 to be a masterpiece and wasnt bored for one second.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

"The first movie was more meditative and contemplative. We were following a young man discovering a new planet, a new culture...
The second movie… it’s more of an action film than the first part. It’s more muscular."
- Denis Villeneuve

Yeah, I saw that quote. But I don’t think that excuses it for feeling rushed. Too much change happens in the characters without it being given its due IMO. I never felt the chemistry between Paul and Chani, I never felt the tension building properly between Paul and his mother, etc. I admit that a big part of that for me is knowing that the timeline is compressed (I was actively waiting for Alia to he born). My biggest complaint with Dune (both these movies and the book(s)) is the lack of emotional connection to the characters. I thought p2 fell even short of p1 on that score.

 

[Gieferg]

lack of emotional connection to the characters

This is one of the main reasons I am not interested in watching Dune 2 (why should I?).
Kinda sImilar situation as with Creed III - not invested enough to watch another film without Rocky In it and in Dune there was literally no one I could care for.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

This is one of the main reasons I am not interested in watching Dune 2 (why should I?).
Kinda sImilar situation as with Creed III - not invested enough to watch another film without Rocky In it and in Dune there was literally no one I could care for.

Probably a good call. As I said in my review almost two weeks ago, if you didn’t like the first one, you probably won’t like this.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Saw it, was better than the first one. But since the first one was easily one of the worst high profile Sci fi movies I've ever seen it was hard to be invested in the film.

It's rare for a sequel to be better than the original, but not so impressive if the original failed at almost everything except for its visuals.

I still don't know why Spice is relevant lol. Characters go on arcs that mean nothing, because instead of trying to tell a story we spend far too much time on slow shots of landscapes etc.

The reason bladerunner works is because its a slow film, it doesn't need to tell.a whole lot of story.

Dune is basically space lotr, dense with a LOT of story/lore but without the emotional gutpunches, nor the exposition that's required for the film to make sense. Also the performances leave a lot to be desired on the two main characters.

Also, zendaya is extremely miscast here and the only freman who doesn't feel like anything remotely native from that planet.

But it does have some spectacle, it does that good enough.

part 1 5.5/10
part 2 7.5/10

The film tries so hard to be art it forgets that story is most important. It's basically a pretentious version of transformers. Eyecandy with no substance. At least it had spectacle, and was faster than part 1.

 

[Malthus]

@tremault we share the same opinion on part 2 also I loved your suggestion of the black and white sections being tinted red and messed about with some images.

https://imgur.com/V1M5MVw

https://imgur.com/GwLDRuW

Definitely there'll be lots of edits of Dune in the coming months but I'd be keen to see your interpretation of these sequences

 

[tremault]

Looks much better! Actually feels like it could belong in a film and wouldn't break the 4th wall like the official version does.
I think the top one works best, but I actually feel like a saturation curve could help, with highlights being far more saturated than midtones and shadows. Could be wrong though.

 

[Malthus]

Yeah it was just a quick proof of concept I'm sure there are loads of potential options. My personal idea was that a black sun would be akin to a black light and everything would be bathed in purples

https://imgur.com/UCHaPfh

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Yes, the violet end of the specturm looks much better than red to me for these scenes.

 

[tremault]

I was thinking perhaps something like this, as with only one wavelength of light, it would be completely saturated in that particular colour. (there would be no white because white is a mix)

 

[daedal]

It could be spoiler-y but I appreciate the analysis.

You can read the below once you've seen the movie.



Of course, I'd say it's bang on, I feel that moment was meant to depict Paul in a position of power, delivering a devastating attack on the Emperor. Your analysis on the original really goes to show how flat this movie was. I'm not entirely sure how the director thought this was a good shot. Maybe there's some subtext I missed?

Now that I have seen Dune part2, I can say that my previous analysis of this still image does not stand the narrative of the movie. For what it's worth, I think the framing was good as is in the movie, it did not bothered me slightest when seen in its context.

I could try to analyze the frame composition further but I'm sure it would quickly become over-analysis.

About the infrared scene. I much prefer the way it is shown in the movie. The color and contrast really feel out of this world to me. It's obviously not the black and white we are familiar with and that makes it more interesting like that, in my opinion. It's alien, a bit unsettling, and trying to make it feel more natural or cohesive would miss the point I think.
Of course this is only my opinion!

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

Now that I have seen Dune part2, I can say that my previous analysis of this still image does not stand the narrative of the movie. For what it's worth, I think the framing was good as is in the movie, it did not bothered me slightest when seen in its context.

I could try to analyze the frame composition further but I'm sure it would quickly become over-analysis.

About the infrared scene. I much prefer the way it is shown in the movie. The color and contrast really feel out of this world to me. It's obviously not the black and white we are familiar with and that makes it more interesting like that, in my opinion. It's alien, a bit unsettling, and trying to make it feel more natural or cohesive would miss the point I think.
Of course this is only my opinion!

I totally agree. With respect to the framing. I admit I’m not even really sure what you all were seeing. I much preferred the look of the theatrical to the reframed shot without context. That said, if you want to argue that it makes it seem as though Paul is overwhelmed by what’s going on around him or swept up in it as opposed to controlling it, well, that seems totally accurate to the story to me.

 

[tremault]

I appreciate your views on that framing and I'll reconsider how I feel when I inevitably watch it again.

I can appreciate what's being said about the Giedi prime, but I can't accept it due to the simple fact that it is physiologically impossible for our eyes to perceive this kind of image in situ. Yes it's supposed to appear extreme and strange and other worldly, but it's also supposed to feel possible, for suspension of disbelief to work. If anyone can demonstrate any way to produce lighting conditions in real life whereby all colours are removed, then I'll accept it. This isn't about strange phenomena etc. it's about how our eyes work and the laws of physics. Dune is sci-fi, not science fantasy. Even Star Wars doesn't do stuff like this.

 

[tremault]

I was just speaking to my brother about this, he's read the books and says the way Giedi Prime is described is being almost black and white due to the incredibly harsh light of the sun. I didn't previously understand this, having only seen the movie and their description of the 'black sun'. Now I think maybe something like this might be better, I grabbed whatever promo footage I could from youtube and did grading.

 

[daedal]

it's also supposed to feel possible, for suspension of disbelief to work

I think 'suspension of disbelief' is the opposite of that. it's when we accept the impossible (because we know we are watching a movie, for instance). I would argue that my disbelief was suspended enough to accept how this scene was presented to me. I really liked that visual effect, so I may be biased. But to me it was no worse than regular black and white or an animation scene spliced in a live action color movie. My eyes don't see in b&w nor the world as anime, but I accept that a movie chooses to do it for stylistic reasons. And I know we can't all agree on what is good or well executed. I understand the desire to want to regrade a movie or colorize a b&w scene. I'm just saying that I personally would not do it in that particular case.

I didn't previously understand this, having only seen the movie and their description of the 'black sun'

I think the movie does not do a great job at explaining the lore. I totally agree that it is hard to understand everything that is going on. I saw it with a friend who recently re-read the books and we had a conversation almost as long as the movie afterwards, explaining the things we didn't get!

By now, I should have mentioned that I mostly liked the movie. I enjoyed the set design, the costumes, the colors, the music, the pacing, most of the actors.
My main gripes were the unidimensional villains and, what I previously mentioned, the fact that I don't understand everything that is going on. It sometimes ok to be left in the dark, but I'm not sure how I feel about it here. Or maybe it's just me who did not understand everything... idk!
But if I'm not the only one, I think the world building could have been better. It's part of why I like to watch those movies.
The rest was fantastic, a good entertainment and nobody complained about sand getting everywhere!

 

[tremault]

But to me it was no worse than regular black and white or an animation scene spliced in a live action color movie. My eyes don't see in b&w nor the world as anime, but I accept that a movie chooses to do it for stylistic reasons.

That feels a little on the nose...
But the two instances that immediately come to mind when you mention that, were very much to do with magic, so very different situation. I mean if Feyd was fighting with a magic flying hammer, you'd have a very strong point

 

[TM2YC]

Wouldn't adding colour to the Geidi Prime scene look off because there isn't any colour in the rest of the movie. Amiright

But seriously I like @tremault 's idea to make it harsh, blown out and grainy.