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Doctor Who --- inactive thread
- Thread starter f1209
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I hope he changes a couple of things. I'm hoping we can lose the focus on contemporary England finally, (something I never cared much for, even back when it was Pertwee) a little goes a long way.Zarius said:
And I think RTD is a better showrunner than a scriptwriter, but that's just my opinion. I'm hoping that Moffat's obvious strengths as a storyteller translates well to his new job of being in charge.
But y'know, I've quite enjoyed the RTD era...with the exception of the specials, which I have found to be so-so. It's a pity that certain people didn't want to do a 'proper' series 5.
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One out of context kiss doesn't mean much...but I won't be surprised if you're right.Zarius said:
I hope not though. I was never against it particularly, but enough is enough. ...And let's hope they don't screw up the return of the Blink statues. (I forget the species name.)
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You know that Phantom Menace review that everyone is buzzing about?
I joked with one of my mates last night that we could practically do exactly the same with The End Of Time. We picked so many holes in it last night that it could have been swiss cheese.
As usual, Davies totally lets down the side again - any cool premise or idea he hints at always turns out the worse or is resolved in some ridiculously ordinary way.
After the first episode - we figured that perhaps Wilf was a Time Lord, so Donna would be half or something. Then we figured perhaps Wilf is the Doctor's father. Then with the return of Gallifray, we thought - perhaps this is where we're going for the new season with Matt Smith. But nope. None of those ideas came to fruition at all. In fact, the quick and easy resolution of both changing the Human race back to normal and disposing of the Time Lords and The Master was insulting. A massive build up to nothing.
Here's what I think happened:
Russell T Davies created a 3 hour script setting up a new dawn of the Time Lords for Moffat. Then, Moffat announces that he will not be using any of Davies previous characters or nothin', see. Davies then realises he needs to quickly end his Time Lord thingie and do a 20 minute sendoff for all his characters. So he chops 20 mins of his script, writes a quick way out of it and then allows the longest regeneration in history with as much cheese as possible. It was palm face city when the Ood came out to 'Sing you to your ship'.
Moffat is completely rebooting DW, IMHO.
I'm cautiously optimistic for the future, but I will miss Tennant.
I joked with one of my mates last night that we could practically do exactly the same with The End Of Time. We picked so many holes in it last night that it could have been swiss cheese.
As usual, Davies totally lets down the side again - any cool premise or idea he hints at always turns out the worse or is resolved in some ridiculously ordinary way.
After the first episode - we figured that perhaps Wilf was a Time Lord, so Donna would be half or something. Then we figured perhaps Wilf is the Doctor's father. Then with the return of Gallifray, we thought - perhaps this is where we're going for the new season with Matt Smith. But nope. None of those ideas came to fruition at all. In fact, the quick and easy resolution of both changing the Human race back to normal and disposing of the Time Lords and The Master was insulting. A massive build up to nothing.
Here's what I think happened:
Russell T Davies created a 3 hour script setting up a new dawn of the Time Lords for Moffat. Then, Moffat announces that he will not be using any of Davies previous characters or nothin', see. Davies then realises he needs to quickly end his Time Lord thingie and do a 20 minute sendoff for all his characters. So he chops 20 mins of his script, writes a quick way out of it and then allows the longest regeneration in history with as much cheese as possible. It was palm face city when the Ood came out to 'Sing you to your ship'.
Moffat is completely rebooting DW, IMHO.
I'm cautiously optimistic for the future, but I will miss Tennant.
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What Moffat brings to the table is an ability to create a coherent and interesting storyline. Which is something Davies consistently fails to do. Davies is good at character development, but not plot.
Agreed. But that doesn't make Davies god. There is frequent criticism of his writing style compared to other writers on the show.
I found TEOT anti-climatic, uninspired and as usual, Davies introduces a whole load of things he's not sure what to do with. So he kills the lot off.
There IS a difference between Moffat and Davies and it's in their writing, but time will tell.
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The first half was hideously stupid and incoherent, but the second half comes into its own with great character development and acting. I think as of present it's too early to tell what the new Doctor will be like. This would work as a fanedit if you cut most of the video game nonsense (RTD seems to have been playing inFamous and Prototype, as The Master in this story is like both of those games' protagonists put together, powers and all). Tennant had a good send-off.
The Faceless One
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Zarius said:
good for them, but there will also be millions who do agree that's what's so good about free will!
I still think the first 2 series were of a much higher quility than what followed. Series 3 and 4 had some really good episodes (Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, The Unicorn and the Wasp, Midnight, Turn Left) but also had some real stinkers (Daleks in Manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks, Last of the Timelords, Stolen Earth, Journey's End)
Zarius said:
From the brink of being almost unwatchably bad.
Zarius said:
Oh sorry, I was unaware that reality disagreed with me!
I really don't care how good or bad the original series may or may not be or what different people pretend it is, I have only watched a handful of 'classic' episodes (some good, some bad) so I almost certainly wouldn't be considered a 'real' fan by some. Doctor Who has one of the most interesting premises on TV and it is being wasted. Most of the critical acclaim has been aimed at Steven Moffat so even if he doesn't set out to change anything the mere fact that he is head writter will have a positive affect.
Zarius said:
Well that's your opinion and that's great, I however thought TEOT was poorly written, incoherent and badly paced. I agree the ending made sense it was just all the stuff leading up to it that didn't.
The difference between RTD and Moffat is that Moffat is a better writer (especially when it comes to science fiction stories), of course that's just my opinion, you'll have to let me know what Reality thinks about it. RTD has written some good episodes (Rose, Christmas Invasion, New Earth, Tooth and Claw, Smith and Jones, Gridlock, Midnight, Turn Left) but it is his habit for world changing apocaliptic episodes which are solved by a masive reset button just in time for the happy ending that I don't like, I just find it boring.
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white43 said:
And what's wrong with the resolution being ordinary? You act like Doctor Who hasnt done this before, when it always has.
The build-up was perfectly clear...the reason they can't bring back The Time Lords is because there insane and must be dealt with immediatly, they werent going to waste time. You already got your action sequences with The Doctor, Wilf, and The VinVocci battling The Master's dominated world in a spacecraft
The Doctor logicly had a reason for his severalfarewells given that radiation has killed The Doctor in the past, and this was radiation that also destroyed The TARDIS interior, so why would he think it'd be a walk in the park? He took the time to help his friends and loved ones as any dying person would and prepared to face the inevitable, hoping he'd survive, or The TARDIS would help him.
For millions of fans, it was very emotional and dramatic. I doubt Davies changed anything. It wasnt the Time Lords story, it was The Doctor facing his mortality, assuring Wilf and the audience that "you can't go home again" and by that extent, coming to terms with where he is in life, and what he is, a hero.
He is not "rebooting" the series, he's continuing it without Davies' characters or influence. There's a difference between a "retooling" and a "rebooting", and the latter is always used when fans don't have any idea when and where to use it proporly.
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Zarius.
Why are you taking this so personally?
As much as you explain to me why it was such a great story - I don't buy it. IMO It was uninterresting with as many cliches as you like. This has been the same for all the 'specials'. Mixed reaction on all of them.
Therein lies the problem. It was always dull before, give us something a little cleverer than simply shooting a machine. Having Time Lords turn up for a few minutes on a big white background and equally get banished by shooting a machine. This should have been something outstanding and it could have been built on. But no, Davies destroys any notion of something interesting by killing off villains in a couple episodes.
Don't assume, it's your opinion. Did you speak to them all? I'm a fan and I could equally say that millions of us felt let down(for example - see AVP and The Faceless One).
Sarcasm aside....
I feel, with a new writer, new actors, not using any of the previous 'Davies' cast, a new logo and probably a redesign of the destroyed Tardis - this is much like a reboot. I doubt anything in the previous seasons will be mentioned again. It's not that Moffat will contradict what has occurred before, he will simply ignore it.
BTW - you were aware I was joking in the 'hypothetical' what happened to this script? I'm well aware that the script is exactly as Davies wanted it.
As far as I'm concerned - Davies has never been a stellar writer, his specials have been very average. Moffat claims the best DW episodes. Davies never took advantage of the things he could have achieved.
Why are you taking this so personally?
As much as you explain to me why it was such a great story - I don't buy it. IMO It was uninterresting with as many cliches as you like. This has been the same for all the 'specials'. Mixed reaction on all of them.
Therein lies the problem. It was always dull before, give us something a little cleverer than simply shooting a machine. Having Time Lords turn up for a few minutes on a big white background and equally get banished by shooting a machine. This should have been something outstanding and it could have been built on. But no, Davies destroys any notion of something interesting by killing off villains in a couple episodes.
Don't assume, it's your opinion. Did you speak to them all? I'm a fan and I could equally say that millions of us felt let down(for example - see AVP and The Faceless One).
Sarcasm aside....
I feel, with a new writer, new actors, not using any of the previous 'Davies' cast, a new logo and probably a redesign of the destroyed Tardis - this is much like a reboot. I doubt anything in the previous seasons will be mentioned again. It's not that Moffat will contradict what has occurred before, he will simply ignore it.
BTW - you were aware I was joking in the 'hypothetical' what happened to this script? I'm well aware that the script is exactly as Davies wanted it.
As far as I'm concerned - Davies has never been a stellar writer, his specials have been very average. Moffat claims the best DW episodes. Davies never took advantage of the things he could have achieved.
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All else aside, the next series is most definitely not a reboot. Just as the RTD era itself was not a reboot.
And the TV movie wasn't a reboot either, for that matter.
And the TV movie wasn't a reboot either, for that matter.
Bingowings
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RTD is the Tony Blair of the Whoniverse.
All those years in the wilderness waiting for the Time Lord only to get a show that can barely be called Doctor Who.
Sure there have been some really good stories but the bulk of them have either been dull or awful, it certainly has not been the rebirth it could have been.
Naturally with RTD in command Moffat has been the change a lot of us have been waiting for.
I just can't shake the fear he may turn out to be the Gordon Brown of the Whoniverse.
Doctor Who should be a show about a mysterious alien, who travels through time and space having educational, informative and entertaining adventures with companions with whom he has a platonic friendship. It should be pitched at a family audience but it shouldn't be pantomime or a soap.
It should be plausibly set in our universe so contemporary stories should feel like they are happening here and now and not in a wonky alternate universe where everyone knows about aliens and everyone has seen giant spacecraft and planets popping out into the sky above them.
The fantastic should be treated with the same internal logic that a drama set in the real world should. Buttons which render rooms lethal shouldn't be on a keyboard where anyone could accidentally push them. Consoles that can destroy an entire invasion force that can only be operated by human prisoners should not be in a space dungeon constructed by aliens without the digits to operate it. Buttons which retract the outer walkway of a space ship shouldn't be on the outside of the ship.
I hope that in the future we get consistent solid story writing there aren't that many stories in a series so there is no excuse for strong stories being an event, they should be the norm.
I'd welcome historical stories that don't necessarily have aliens other than the Doctor in them and an end to this obsession with epic finales that go nowhere.
I wish they could return the show to the autumn slot.
Doctor Who stories are by nature often unsettling all be it in a family show context.
The dark colder seasons are better for this, the dark and the cold outside add to the tone of the stories being told on the screen inside.
I can only assume that the Easter start is a marketing ploy (the series DVD box sets come out just in time to get a free advert in the form of the build up to the Christmas special).
When we are fortunate to actually get a summer it results in clashes with the bulk of sports events and the warm evenings where the target audience are more likely to be out doing other things.
If the Easter start is now set in stone I'd like to see Halloween specials and Christmas specials which are really spooky and not just bland nonsense.
I'm cautiously optimistic. Matt Smith looks surprising odd (in a good way) and he certainly can act.
At the end of the day it comes down to the stories.
Big Finish proved how good Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy could have been, Jings! they even redeemed Bonnie Langford.
If they had television adventures as good as some of those audios and the backing of the BBC perhaps the show would never have gone off the air.
All those years in the wilderness waiting for the Time Lord only to get a show that can barely be called Doctor Who.
Sure there have been some really good stories but the bulk of them have either been dull or awful, it certainly has not been the rebirth it could have been.
Naturally with RTD in command Moffat has been the change a lot of us have been waiting for.
I just can't shake the fear he may turn out to be the Gordon Brown of the Whoniverse.
Doctor Who should be a show about a mysterious alien, who travels through time and space having educational, informative and entertaining adventures with companions with whom he has a platonic friendship. It should be pitched at a family audience but it shouldn't be pantomime or a soap.
It should be plausibly set in our universe so contemporary stories should feel like they are happening here and now and not in a wonky alternate universe where everyone knows about aliens and everyone has seen giant spacecraft and planets popping out into the sky above them.
The fantastic should be treated with the same internal logic that a drama set in the real world should. Buttons which render rooms lethal shouldn't be on a keyboard where anyone could accidentally push them. Consoles that can destroy an entire invasion force that can only be operated by human prisoners should not be in a space dungeon constructed by aliens without the digits to operate it. Buttons which retract the outer walkway of a space ship shouldn't be on the outside of the ship.
I hope that in the future we get consistent solid story writing there aren't that many stories in a series so there is no excuse for strong stories being an event, they should be the norm.
I'd welcome historical stories that don't necessarily have aliens other than the Doctor in them and an end to this obsession with epic finales that go nowhere.
I wish they could return the show to the autumn slot.
Doctor Who stories are by nature often unsettling all be it in a family show context.
The dark colder seasons are better for this, the dark and the cold outside add to the tone of the stories being told on the screen inside.
I can only assume that the Easter start is a marketing ploy (the series DVD box sets come out just in time to get a free advert in the form of the build up to the Christmas special).
When we are fortunate to actually get a summer it results in clashes with the bulk of sports events and the warm evenings where the target audience are more likely to be out doing other things.
If the Easter start is now set in stone I'd like to see Halloween specials and Christmas specials which are really spooky and not just bland nonsense.
I'm cautiously optimistic. Matt Smith looks surprising odd (in a good way) and he certainly can act.
At the end of the day it comes down to the stories.
Big Finish proved how good Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy could have been, Jings! they even redeemed Bonnie Langford.
If they had television adventures as good as some of those audios and the backing of the BBC perhaps the show would never have gone off the air.
The Faceless One
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Really excited about Series 5 now, all the trailers look great and I think Matt Smith may turn out to be a very good Doctor, just hope Moffat's good some good stuff in store for us.
Series 5 trailers (some slight spoilers obviously, but no more than your average trailer)
- Trailer from end of 'The End Of Time part 2'
- BBC America promotion trailer
- BBC press release trailer
- BBC promo trailer
Series 5 trailers (some slight spoilers obviously, but no more than your average trailer)
Bingowings
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Me saw that too.
Since then there have been a lot of new trailers and clips up on the interwebs.
Stay away if you want no spoilers :
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/
Since then there have been a lot of new trailers and clips up on the interwebs.
Stay away if you want no spoilers :
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/
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only saw the last 20 mins or so but i did like the cockiness.
[spoiler:1yd4hpfi]basically telling the aliens to fuck off or he'd slap them[/spoiler:1yd4hpfi]
and the coming soon teaser at the end looked dead promising. i may be eating humble pie on this one.
[spoiler:1yd4hpfi]basically telling the aliens to fuck off or he'd slap them[/spoiler:1yd4hpfi]
and the coming soon teaser at the end looked dead promising. i may be eating humble pie on this one.
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Ive never bin a massive DW fan but i was impressed and i only watched the last ten minutes, thank god david tennant is no more :grin:
http://www.themindrobber.co.uk/tardis-police-box.html
http://www.themindrobber.co.uk/tardis-police-box.html
thats funny nOmArch
that was my favorite part of the episode. he just wanted to scare them i think. hes also coming off of the 'time lord victorious' and i for one hope we see more darker elements just because it would show how the Valeyard came to be.
i liked the episode a lot but some of the effects could have been better i thought.
minor quibble
i was so worried after the season finale. im just glad its back to being watchable..
is ANYONE here going to do a fan edit of the time lords two parter?
please?
that was my favorite part of the episode. he just wanted to scare them i think. hes also coming off of the 'time lord victorious' and i for one hope we see more darker elements just because it would show how the Valeyard came to be.
i liked the episode a lot but some of the effects could have been better i thought.
minor quibble
i was so worried after the season finale. im just glad its back to being watchable..
is ANYONE here going to do a fan edit of the time lords two parter?
please?
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