Captain America Civil War

[bionicbob]

So where was Thor during Civil War.....?   Hilarious!!!! 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_mizUMlvUc[/video]

 

[addiesin]

I rarely (formerly never, until now) post images from Cracked, because I figure if you like that kind of site, you probably already know about it and have seen whatever it is. But this is from a current Photoshop competition article thing, and made me stop and say "Dang. Good point. Thought it might be worth discussing.

So, is Tony proving himself wrong in this sequence?

 

[TM2YC]

^ Not necessarily. A hero can have a secret-identity and still work with the consent of the government and with law-enforcement. e.g Batman, Superman

 

[Gaith]

The more damning point in all that is that the use of child soldiers is a war crime. Suppose he'd died when Cap dropped the stairway on him? He's a minor, is he not? And the funny thing is, take Peter/Spidey out of the movie, and not a single thing needs to change. They used him purely as setup for future Spidey movies, just as much as Thor's bath scene in Age of Ultron - except that did have an effect on the plot at hand, as it led him to get the others to trust Vision.

 

[SoboFilms]

Not sure if this post should go here or in a different thread, but since the discussion is kinda on Spider-Man right now I guess I'll post it here, after recently watching the Marvel Symphonic universe video essay I got the idea to see if adding in Danny Elfman's theme from Spider-Man to some of Spider-Man's scenes in Civil War would work or possibly even make them better. Upon trying it I think it actually works rather well...

It's not perfect by any means but it certainly gives his scenes a much more memorable feel to them

 

[Canon Editor]

Not sure if this post should go here or in a different thread, but since the discussion is kinda on Spider-Man right now I guess I'll post it here, after recently watching the Marvel Symphonic universe video essay I got the idea to see if adding in Danny Elfman's theme from Spider-Man to some of Spider-Man's scenes in Civil War would work or possibly even make them better. Upon trying it I think it actually works rather well...

That was great!  Real Spider-Man feel(s).  Unfortunately, I feel the need to say how bad the special effects seem in this film (haven't seen it).  Great work nonetheless!!!

 

[Masirimso17]

I feel the need to say how bad the special effects seem in this film (haven't seen it).  Great work nonetheless!!!

As great a film it is, the CGI is absolutely horrible. The CGI applied to Spidey, the Iron Man and War Machine armors and the wobbling heads of RDJ and Don Cheadle when they're unmasked... Just awful. I hope the same doesn't happen in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Infinity War.

By the way, even though seeing Spidey in the MCU was great, he was pointless, and trying to shoehorn him into the film failed. I did like the character itself, but the few problems created from his existence in the film are annoying.



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[Canon Editor]

I feel the need to say how bad the special effects seem in this film (haven't seen it).  Great work nonetheless!!!

As great a film it is, the CGI is absolutely horrible. The CGI applied to Spidey, the Iron Man and War Machine armors and the wobbling heads of RDJ and Don Cheadle when they're unmasked... Just awful. I hope the same doesn't happen in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Infinity War.

By the way, even though seeing Spidey in the MCU was great, he was pointless, and trying to shoehorn him into the film failed. I did like the character itself, but the few problems created from his existence in the film are annoying.



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I see what you mean.  I had heard Spidey was pretty much unneeded in the film.

 

[addiesin]

I completely disagree, but then again, I've seen the film.

 

[DominicCobb]

I rarely (formerly never, until now) post images from Cracked, because I figure if you like that kind of site, you probably already know about it and have seen whatever it is. But this is from a current Photoshop competition article thing, and made me stop and say "Dang. Good point. Thought it might be worth discussing.

So, is Tony proving himself wrong in this sequence?

Well Peter had already been operating as Spidey with a mask and secret identity. Tony just gave him a better suit and an excuse for Aunt May so he could go.

 

[Masirimso17]

I completely disagree, but then again, I've seen the film.

I have too. Did you like the CGI? Did you think Spider-Man was a necessary character? Why?

 

[addiesin]

Well, first of all, "necessary" is hard to pin down. Do we really NEED superhero films at all? No. But talking like that is boring. So forget pure fact, the rest is my opinion.

If we're asking whether Spiderman was necessary for the story, I think the answer is yes. Once it said "QUEENS" across the screen, I got giddy and excited. It raised my enjoyment level, it added fun to the film. The reason I like superhero films is because obviously I want superpowers and can't really have them. So when a film has people with powers and they are fun and relateable I have an easier time putting myself in their shoes and having fun by proxy. Without that kind of stuff it'd be pretty depressing and too heavy.

If we're talking more about plot than tone, Spiderman is a powerhouse. Without him, Giant Man would have tipped the scales so far toward Cap's team that Tony wouldn't have had a chance. I think Vision and Wanda were far less useful to the film, but I think both are afraid of their true power and are more concerned with not killing everyone around them than they are with their side winning. 

In a broader sense, including Spiderman shows that the characters we've been following for all the films so far are not the only ones active in the world we're seeing. There are more, and some of them are even still kids. Spiderman literally and figuratively represents hope for the future. Literally because we're getting more Spiderman films, and figuratively because "I believe the children are our future" and all that.


Yes I like the CGI. People complaining about perfectly fine CGI is really annoying to me, because all they usually say is it's "bad" or some synonym for "bad". If you can't get more descriptive or specific, it's probably not actually that bad, it's just not how you wanted it to be. Spiderman doesn't look like a ragdoll, doesn't move like a cartoon, doesn't look like melted shiny plastic, doesn't clip through his environment, doesn't have fake-looking textures or lack of details, seems to have real physical weight with which he interacts in his environment. I literally don't see a problem. I challenge you to look at any shot from this film you think is bad CGI, then compare with any moment in the original Spiderman or the first Blade or any of the first films in the current age of superhero films. You will be shocked at what passed for a professional special effect in a theatrical film.

 

[Masirimso17]

Well, first of all, "necessary" is hard to pin down. Do we really NEED superhero films at all? No. But talking like that is boring. So forget pure fact, the rest is my opinion.

If we're asking whether Spiderman was necessary for the story, I think the answer is yes. Once it said "QUEENS" across the screen, I got giddy and excited. It raised my enjoyment level, it added fun to the film. The reason I like superhero films is because obviously I want superpowers and can't really have them. So when a film has people with powers and they are fun and relateable I have an easier time putting myself in their shoes and having fun by proxy. Without that kind of stuff it'd be pretty depressing and too heavy.

If we're talking more about plot than tone, Spiderman is a powerhouse. Without him, Giant Man would have tipped the scales so far toward Cap's team that Tony wouldn't have had a chance. I think Vision and Wanda were far less useful to the film, but I think both are afraid of their true power and are more concerned with not killing everyone around them than they are with their side winning. 

In a broader sense, including Spiderman shows that the characters we've been following for all the films so far are not the only ones active in the world we're seeing. There are more, and some of them are even still kids. Spiderman literally and figuratively represents hope for the future. Literally because we're getting more Spiderman films, and figuratively because "I believe the children are our future" and all that.

I completely understand your point of view. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed seeing Spider-Man in the MCU very much, I liked his character and personality (though I don't like hot Aunt May). I also agree with what you said. The reason I don't think he was needed to the film, plot-wise, was because if you took him out of the film nothing would change except the Giant Man scene. About that, I'm sure Vision would have taken care of Giant Man easily without much of a problem.

However, despite the unneccessity, the bad CGI and my dislike for hot Aunt May, seeing Spider-Man in the MCU was awesome and he was executed very well. I would not take him out of the movie. Like Jeremy Jahns said in his Desolation of Smaug review: "If you're going to shoehorn someone into a movie, make it memorable, make it badass!" And Spider-Man was exactly that: Memorable and badass.

Yes I like the CGI. People complaining about perfectly fine CGI is really annoying to me, because all they usually say is it's "bad" or some synonym for "bad". If you can't get more descriptive or specific, it's probably not actually that bad, it's just not how you wanted it to be. Spiderman doesn't look like a ragdoll, doesn't move like a cartoon, doesn't look like melted shiny plastic, doesn't clip through his environment, doesn't have fake-looking textures or lack of details, seems to have real physical weight with which he interacts in his environment. I literally don't see a problem. I challenge you to look at any shot from this film you think is bad CGI, then compare with any moment in the original Spiderman or the first Blade or any of the first films in the current age of superhero films. You will be shocked at what passed for a professional special effect in a theatrical film.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree, especially with the part in the bold. Yes, the CGI was fine, but for everything else other than the Iron Man and War Machine armors when they're unmasked (because RDJ's and Don Cheadle's heads bobbling over the Iron Man suits look very fake and Spider-Man looked fake as well. The CGI applied over Spider-Man's suit make it look exactly like you described in the bold part, and it looks even worse when the suit isn't even real and it was shot in motion capture. Look at the behind the scenes, it's true!

Comparing the beginning of the modern superhero films is not fair at all, in my opinion. You gave examples from films released on 1998 and 2002, and even they were fine back then and they still aged pretty well apart from probably some shots (which as far as I remember from those films still look better than Civil War!) But this is 2016 and the CGI in Civil War is, I'm sorry, unacceptable. If you want to compare, compare it to any of the Iron Man films or the Amazing Spider-Man films or any other MCU movie or X-Men movie (except Origins). They all look fantastic, especially compared to Civil War.

Comparing Spider-Man in Civil War to Spider-Man in The Amazing Spider-Man 2, at least in CGI the quality of it dropped massively. Like I said, this is because of the way it was shot and how the post production CGI was applied. Comparing the set photos of ASM2 and Civil War gives us the reason why ASM2 looks much superior to Civil War. In ASM2, the Spider-Man suit was perfect and they almost always used that in filming. The CGI applied in post production were small improvements and impossible shots. The film looks spectacular. Comparing it to Civil War's behind the scenes reveal that Tom Holland was wearing a motion capture suit. There are no set photos in Civil War, but the set photos from Homecoming show how awful the real suit looks and that's why they applied CGI. All that wouldn't matter if the CGI looked realistic like the Iron Man films. But it didn't.

That's just my point of view and I don't see how we can continue this argument because the rest of the discussion would be all subjective. You think the CGI is fine (and probably the behind the scenes don't matter to you because you find it fine). I don't think it's fine and the behind the scenes are my reasons as to why I think the bad CGI was used. The rest of the discussion is "I think it's fine" or "I think it's horrible". So let's just agree to disagree.

 

[addiesin]

We're definitely allowed to disagree, I just don't understand how the CGI was "bad". I'll revisit this thread when I have more time to address your other points that we CAN keep discussing because even if we disagree, at least you seem interested in elaborating on your thoughts. I am too.

 

[Masirimso17]

We're definitely allowed to disagree, I just don't understand how the CGI was "bad". I'll revisit this thread when I have more time to address your other points that we CAN keep discussing because even if we disagree, at least you seem interested in elaborating on your thoughts. I am too.

Yeah I am sort of an open minded person, so I am curious about other people's opinions and views even if we disagree. Sometimes this can make me change my mind if an argument is convincing to me, sometimes it can't. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing though.

Speaking of which, I've been thinking of creating a thread talking about changing opinions and views about movies, starting of course with mine. Where would be most appropriate to start this thread?

I'm looking forward to discussing this topic further


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[addiesin]

Speaking of which, I've been thinking of creating a thread talking about changing opinions and views about movies, starting of course with mine. Where would be most appropriate to start this thread?

Same subforum as this thread, https://forums.fanedit.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=34

 

[Masirimso17]

Speaking of which, I've been thinking of creating a thread talking about changing opinions and views about movies, starting of course with mine. Where would be most appropriate to start this thread?

Same subforum as this thread, https://forums.fanedit.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=34

Thanks. I won't start something immediately, but when I have time to explain my thoughts and views in detail for the OP.


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[Canon Editor]

Bouncing off some old discussions here… what did you guys think of the action sequence in Lagos?  I thought it was unneeded, but more than that, badly coreographed.  Not totally convinced about it.  What if it were removed in a fan edit?

 

[Gaith]

These suggestions are pretty great:

 

[Masirimso17]

Don’t really agree. Since my discussion with addiesin a few posts back I’ve changed my mind about Spider-Man in Civil War. Devin Faraci’s article about this is spot on. Still not a huge fan of the CGI, though the Iron Man/War Machine armors look even worse.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/10/spider-mans-central-role-in-captain-america-civil-war

I’m still pretty bummed that Homecoming didn’t explore this between Peter and Tony. What a flat, missed opportunity of a movie.