• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

    Read BEFORE posting Trades & Request

Cannibal Holocaust: The Horrorgrind Cut

tranzor said:
I promise Boon no provoking or argument starting, just let me clarify myself because Dan is not understanding what I am saying.
Click to expand...
It sounds like your opinion is that the scenes you speak of serve no purpose. As I said before this is only slaughter, and if you are interested there are specific codes aimed at minimizing the pain an animal feels in death when professionally hunted, or killed in a slaughterhouse, and I don't believe what's in Cannibal Holocaust is as bad or any worse than what you'd find in a typical cattle slaughterhouse (which is among the worst - most other animals from chickens and pigs to seals in canada are killed in ways more humane than cattle is). I do not have a problem with the way cattle is killed - that's why I eat beef, and wear a leather jacket - though I don't necessarily want to be watching the cattle be killed. That's just an opinion. Bad Boy Bubby does much worse (although the animal was put down by a vet). I don't wish you any disrespect in your opinion, and I hope you feel I have understood what you have said (that you feel the scenes are unnecessary).

I really wish I had had the opportunity to see this film in a cinema also, as you did. But then I wish that about Blade Runner too!
Horrorgrind I am going to try and get review for your edit up by the weekend
Click to expand...
I've downloaded the cut now, I'll try to watch it tomorrow. I too will post a review.

Peace. Happy New Year!
 
I am pretty sure there is a fan shot cam about from that exhumed show. I used to record them in bits and pieces as a film went on ( I know some of the guys from exhumed,) but keep in mind these are old films and unless the theater they used had a problem with it or some other issues I always asked first. I loved getting the crowds reaction to certain scenes.

back on point I hear what you are saying and I do agree with that abuse as well. Much more horrible forms do occur behind closed doors for that "real skin" jacket or that steak.

What was interesting about Cannibal is that the theater was completely silent. Even in such cases say where something brutal happens in a film you usually get the "owww" or "ohhhh" from the audience. Not in this case, dead silence. I have seen much worse in films, but for some reason Cannibal was made well enough that it does show the brutal non entertainment value it wanted to deliver.

Just as a side note after the credits grindhouse had a small piece up on the screen about censorship. Ironically the crowd laughed at that. I forgot the exact wording, but I think it kind of came acrpss as being a bit cheesy and some how it was trying to justify the nasty film you just saw using something else as an example.
Happy new year!
 
For what it's worth I shared to a 1.34 ratio on the torrent - just a reminder to everyone else to seed for others. I'm going to watch it now.
 
Cannibal Holocaust: The Horrorgrind Cut

Cannibal Holocaust is a film which incorporates two storylines, and this cut entirely removes one, reducing the film to the level of "The Blair Witch Project". In my opinion the film suffers greatly from removing Professor Monroe's storyline and his contact with the Yanomamo tribe (tree people). The film is now much simpler and contains only the one storyline. There is one reference in the film to the deleted human execution footage "just like Cambodia" that in the context of this edit no longer makes sense for the viewer.

Technical: The source DVD for this edit was clearly not the Grindhouse release. Which is a shame because the video quality is noticeably softer, less detailed and less grainy. However the video quality is still good - it would appear that the source for this edit was the Dutch ultrabit DVD. I will say that by watching this edit I was impressed by the transfer, even though it isn't as good as the Grindhouse transfer, and I've just ordered a copy of the DVD (to compliment my Grindhouse DVD). Audio quality is good, although some isolated audio/video sync problems do persist in this edit.

The DVD is presented in non-anamorphic 1.78:1. Although the faneditor states it's 16:9 I had to manually zoom the image on my computer to fill the width on my 1.6:1 monitor. I don't think it's made much difference though. The menus are animated, including music - and are also non-anamorphic. As a side-note I should note that all the credits are in Italian, not English. This does help the ending for this edit as the original text is now unreadable, and isn't essential to this version of the film.

Video Quality: B (Good).
Audio Quality: B+ (Good, but some sync issues should be addressed).
Editing: B+ (Quality editing).
Menus/Presentation: B
Movie: C (The original unedited film is significantly better).

Overall rating: B (4/5). Well done, I'll be interested to see how other fans of this film respond to this edit, I hope to view more of your work in the future.
 
Daniel said:
For what it's worth I shared to a 1.34 ratio on the torrent - just a reminder to everyone else to seed for others. I'm going to watch it now.
Click to expand...

much appreciated, and thanks for the review!
 
Horrorgrind said:
much appreciated, and thanks for the review!
Click to expand...
No probs at all. I'll try to seed again through the nights. May I just ask why you chose to use the dutch DVD as your source?
 
Daniel said:
Horrorgrind said:
much appreciated, and thanks for the review!
Click to expand...
No probs at all. I'll try to seed again through the nights. May I just ask why you chose to use the dutch DVD as your source?
Click to expand...

The DVD I used was purchased in the US in a store called Hastings. It came in a blue slipcase, which I've never seen anywhere else and can't seem to find on google image search. Not sure if this is the Dutch version, but it plays fine on my region 1 DVD player.
 
Image comparisons can be found:

here. ("both" Dutch versions and Grindhouse)

The Grindhouse screenshots on that page really are inadequate - here are the same screenshots at the same size as the dutch ones (they're saved at a slightly lower quality, but that shouldn't matter):

Screenshot #1
Screenshot #2
Screenshot #3
Screenshot #4

The disc is not interlaced - but it appears it's been incorrectly flagged for interlaced playback (see below), what I've seen is progressive playback in PowerDVD but interlaced playback in Media Player Classic. I'd imagine you could re-author the disc to remove that flaw if you needed to do so for playback in your DVD player. Maybe the Australian port by SVE is fixed?

And another here. (Between the Grindhouse DVD, and the Italian DVD released by Alan Young Pictures)

The DVD previously considered to be the best quality transfer of the film was the later dutch release by EC Entertainment (and I've ordered myself a copy, which I should be receiving next week, let's hope). But upon reviewing those screenshots it looks like the Dutch release may have the edge on the Grindhouse release -it's hard to say, they were each mastered directly from different 35mm prints. I'll have to wait until my copy arrives. It does not appear to matter if you have the NTSC or PAL version disc of the DUTCH DVD - the quality looks exactly the same. It's very difficult to tell what version you have, I'm guessing the dutch release (remastered, anamorphic NTSC) - try comparing your disc's specs here to see if you can find a match. It's not unheard of for a distributor to rebadge a licensed disc into another format (PAL-->NTSC or NTSC-->PAL), one such example is The Rock, I purchased the UK disc and then sold my original Criterion one since people pay good money for OOP criterion DVD's even though the UK disc was almost identical - I had them both at the same time, and just like in those screenshots you could not tell the difference between the two, with the exception of the menus being different (but still having "The Criterion Collection" all over them). But it's rare that this is the case, and as you must have bought an NTSC DVD, assuming it was not one of the 1.66:1 DVD's the Dutch remastered NTSC DVD is the most likely one you'd have.
 
Hey Dan,
You are wrong about some info. 98% of US ntsc dvds (or ntsc in general) are usually encoded as progressive (23.97 frames). However as for ntsc dvd specification they are flagged to be played back at 29.97 frames interlaced. This flag (known as a pulldown flag) tells the dvd player to play back at this speed and interlace it. The interlacing is done on the equipemnt it is being played on (ex: your dvd player)

with this being said, from the photos listed I am assumng those captures were done with a PAL dvd player or somewhere where PAL is the native format? There is a strong possbility those artifacts are from their equipment not doing the best ntsc to pal conversion (likewise just the opposite on some US equipment that can do pal2ntsc on the fly)

I have never noticed any interlaced artifacts on the grindhouse dvd. I am also playing it on native equipment (being ntsc and in the US)

the grindhouse disc still has the edge over the others for it's proper color correction as well

you cannot have a US disc played back as it's true progressive form, this is just not allowed for ntsc dvd specification. This is why when I was reading all of these comparisions they both do not know/unaware of just how dvd specification works for what format and what is and what is not allowed
 
I have seen the interlaced effect first hand in MPC, it does not seem to be reproducing the effect right now - but that may be because I've fiddled with too many settings since then. I'll have another look to see if I can get it to do it again.
 
you see that is the problem, it is truly very hard to judge something using a pc program for viewing. Many different factors are involved that will cause different results. MPC has a ton of settings that your normal homedeck player would otherwise not have

the best method would be to digitally rip the test chapter in question and then export that sequence into frames, then view the frames.

Even if you went frame by frame in an app lets say like womble, it shows things that are not in the picture to begin with. Excellent editor, bad viewer.

so again not to argue with you but really the only true method is find a small sequence, export the frames to bmps and then view them (in photoshop). If you still see an interlaced artifact frame this may say something, however I never noticed anything of the sort playing it on ntsc native equipment, not the computer
 
Actually it was very easy, and obvious, to tell that it was interlaced playback. To test this again I installed VLC, changed no settings and loaded up the movie. Sure enough it was interlaced. Even the menus are interlaced. If I put in any other NTSC DVD I own, such as Cannibal Ferox, the image is not interlaced as you will see in these screenshots:

Holocaust VLC Screenshot

Ferox VLC Screenshot

Of course Ferox isn't anamorphic - so here's a screenshot of another anamorphic NTSC DVD (Three Kings), clearly showing as with Ferox that the picture is not interlaced:

Three Kings VLC Screenshot

You should be able to independently reproduce the results by installing the VLC media player (on XP) and then using the default settings opening the DVD up. You can see full-speed that Holocaust is interlaced in VLC, whereas the others are not.
 
your comparison pictures prove nothing. You are showing three different dvds from various prints and releases by companies. I see nothing in your pictures that shows interlacing artifcats. Are you sure you know what interlaced noise is? For one of the comparision sites you listed the shot of the fire is an extreme example of an interlacing issue ( I still question this because I do not know how this source was recorded). Interlace noise usually gives a blurred image with rough edges or slight line tears roughly speaking. Your Cannibal pic shows none of this, just regular artifact noise from film print and transfer

once again you cannot use pc software to judge these things. An ntsc dvd HAS TO BE played back as an interlaced source regardless, even if it was encoded as progressive. If you want to make an ntsc dvd and play it back at it's true film speed then the only thing that would ever play it as such would be a computer, because it is not in dvd specification. The film framerate if valid, but it has to have the pulldown appiled for ntsc and this is where the interlacing occurs. PAL however is another story.

Look I am your best bet to test this out and verify and give a true answer. I would be using equipment made for the discs native format. So take the grindhouse disc and give me a rough section (give me a running time spot) and I can test it out for you. I am also honest enough to admit if I end up being wrong (which I doubt). This way we can end this and you no longer have to give these comparision using pc software or this image and that which holds no basis for anything at all.

UPDATE: just tested out part of the disc and I see some very interesting results which adds a lot of value to your claim. The disc was not done as 23.97 progress with pulldown. It was done as a straight interlaced 29.97. So it looks like you might be right, however I was not seeing this while playing the disc, but exporting the frames I mentioned earlier you can see slight interlace noise, but nothing extreme. Very odd that grindhouse would use this method, then again the transgfer was done roughly 8 years before the damn disc finally came out. It is very possible instead of re-doing it properly they just used what they did back then.

It still is the best of the bunch however
 
tranzor said:
your comparison pictures prove nothing. You are showing three different dvds from various prints and releases by companies. I see nothing in your pictures that shows interlacing artifcats.
Click to expand...
Then you're blind, I thought the screenshot was more than adequate.

Are you sure you know what interlaced noise is?

Yes. Do you?
http://www.bestshareware.net/howto/filt ... -video.htm
http://www.photos-from-video.co.uk/pic_comp.htm

That's exactly what my screenshot looks like. Frankly your repy is rude and insulting; and you're unfairly dismissive of strong evidence.

For one of the comparision sites you listed the shot of the fire is an extreme example of an interlacing issue ( I still question this because I do not know how this source was recorded). Interlace noise usually gives a blurred image with rough edges or slight line tears roughly speaking. Your Cannibal pic shows none of this, just regular artifact noise from film print and transfer

Unfortunately VLC does not seem to have a feature to "step" frame-by-frame, making it harder to give you an interlace "between cuts" as seen in the example you mentioned. I can however, quite easily, take the same screenshot in powerdvd or MPC to prove the "noise" you're seeing is an interlaced picture:

Original Interlaced Screenshot
Non-Interlaced Screenshot

Here are three more interlaced frames:
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/9111/holocaust3dm4.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1218 ... st4un4.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7663 ... st5be4.jpg

I'm not providing any more, as you can reproduce this effect very easily, and it's just as easy to prove that most other NTSC DVD's are not interlaced like this one (just pop one in and load it in VLC).

once again you cannot use pc software to judge these things. An ntsc dvd HAS TO BE played back as an interlaced source regardless, even if it was encoded as progressive.

Incorrect. The other two test NTSC DVD's I used in the same conditions did not play back as interlaced.

If you want to make an ntsc dvd and play it back at it's true film speed then the only thing that would ever play it as such would be a computer, because it is not in dvd specification.

Progressive-Scan DVD players play back at the correct speed.

The film framerate if valid, but it has to have the pulldown appiled for ntsc and this is where the interlacing occurs. PAL however is another story.

Pulldown never has to be artificially applied on a computer for playback the way that it does to be output as NTSC to a TV.

Look I am your best bet to test this out and verify and give a true answer. I would be using equipment made for the discs native format.

I'd imagine that your results would be player-specific. Your DVD player may be de-interlacing the source. I don't know what is causing the interlacing on the disc, it may be a mastering error which effects some but not all software and hardware DVD players. If I enable the de-interlace option in VLC the disc plays back correctly - it seems that MPC is also doing this (although it didn't the first time I used it on the disc), and also that PowerDVD does this also. VLC however doesn't try to automatically "fix" the problem during playback if you don't tell it to. Meanwhile you can watch "98%" of your other NTSC DVD's with the factory settings in VLC and no interlacing (NTSC pulldown) will be applied to your video.

As you can reproduce these results on your own on your computer with the VLC player, I see no reason why we need to do anything further to prove what is already stated on other websites - this disc is formatted as interlaced, not progressive. No one's claiming that it isn't possible to watch it in progressive mode, and no one's made any claims as to how many (if any) real-life software and hardware DVD players will be effected by this mastering resulting in an interlaced playback where one would normally expect a progressive playback.
 
guys, your interlaced discussion is really boring. Could you continue this in private? It has nothing much to do with this fanedit or with the discussion of it.
 
Hey Boon,
fair enough sorry for the hi-jacking, PM will be the route instead
 
hay guiz remember that time i made a fanedit of cannibal holocaust? good times.
 
herewegoagainqk0.jpg


its the law.
 
aaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I'm glad we can always count on nOm for cute kitty pics!!! :)
 
RS on linktalk now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom