4K releases need to stop scrubbing grain

[daedal]

Well, not exactly. But I had some encoding problems, and sanjuro_61 has done it better.
I am very happy with his version so I've just abandoned my project (but later regrained Star Trek TMP Director's Edition).

Are there any before after comparisons of this version? It's a 4k with added grain I take it?

Hey that is a bit out of context but I'm intrigued by this re-graining technique!
I'm not sure I understand, if you are adding artificial grain to a movie that was already altered by removing the grain, aren't you just doubling down on an undesired degradation? Or am I missing something?

 

[Gieferg]

Well I don't do anything that I consider to be "undesired degradation". That is subjective matter though.
To me re-grained usually looks better than de-grained (which I cannot stand).

Example:
Before: https://images4.imagebam.com/89/a1/5c/MEFYHRN_o.png
After: https://images4.imagebam.com/b2/11/8e/MEFYHRK_o.png

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Hey that is a bit out of context but I'm intrigued by this re-graining technique!
I'm not sure I understand, if you are adding artificial grain to a movie that was already altered by removing the grain, aren't you just doubling down on an undesired degradation? Or am I missing something?

Because sometimes a 4k release can have superior color. So yes it definitely wouldn't be ideal (and I ended up abandoning yhe project) it has it's merit to add a bit of layer/texture to the scrubbed 4k film.

 

[daedal]

Yes! I see it in the images shared by Gieferg. Thanks for that!
I must admit I'm not sure I would be able to differentiate between original grain and added grain!

 

[Gieferg]

Color difference in that example is there because added grain plate had that warm tint.

 

[hbenthow]

What is currently the best method of regraining?

The issue with simply applying a grain overlay is that it applies the grain evenly, whereas real film looks grainier in some part of the image than others (there's little to no grain in the highlights, for example).

Is DaVinci Resolve's built-in grain plugin a good way of doing it? And if so, what are the optimal settings?

I remember @DonkeyKonga saying something about a way to use grain overlays with a reverse matte or something in order to simulate the differences in grain visibility in different parts of the image, but I was never able to find out how to do this.

 

[MightyAttackTribble]

I remember @DonkeyKonga saying something about a way to use grain overlays with a reverse matte or something in order to simulate the differences in grain visibility in different parts of the image, but I was never able to find out how to do this.

Here's the thread for that, but I must confess I've only had partial success following it, as it doesn't specify which piece of software is being used.

 

[daedal]

Here's the thread for that, but I must confess I've only had partial success following it, as it doesn't specify which piece of software is being used.

if you are using Premiere Pro there is this guy who does very good tutorials for it. here is the one explaining a very similar approach to the one DonkeyKonga uses. I know some of us better understand by seeing how it's done, it is not to undermine your post in anyway DonkeyKonga!
Thank you for the tips and I do recommend reading that post he did for the conversation around the technique and the useful link to a downloadable free 4k film grain assets if Colin's tutorial with HLS auto is not enough for you.
If you are not using Premiere, I'm sure there are similar ways to do it because the technique uses pretty common features, I think!

 

[MightyAttackTribble]

If you are not using Premiere, I'm sure there are similar ways to do it because the technique uses pretty common features, I think!

I use Vegas, which does have similar features but is definitely more limited in the application of those steps, which is where my issues popped up. I had access to After Effects which is closer still, and where I got my best results, but still not a 1:1 process.

I may have to shell out for Premiere, as one of my current projects uses five different sources, one with a fairly heavy grain, one with a light grain, and three with no grain whatsoever. I've sourced a matching grain overlay for the heavy grain source, but applying it to the other sources using Vegas hasn't been particularly successful.

 

[daedal]

I use Vegas, which does have similar features but is definitely more limited in the application of those steps, which is where my issues popped up. I had access to After Effects which is closer still, and where I got my best results, but still not a 1:1 process.

I'm surprised, and sorry to hear that!

I may have to shell out for Premiere, as one of my current projects uses five different sources, one with a fairly heavy grain, one with a light grain, and three with no grain whatsoever. I've sourced a matching grain overlay for the heavy grain source, but applying it to the other sources using Vegas hasn't been particularly successful.

to be honest I haven't been using this full technique in my edits yet. I have only been adding grain to short and dark clips in my edits and didn't feel it needed more fiddling. I'm still experimenting with it and sometimes feel like it's so subtle or too much...
As bad as I hate Software as a service, the nice thing about it though is you can pay for it monthly and download Premiere only when you are ready to work on that feature. you can then cancel your subscription. I know, it's not ideal but easier on your wallet.

 

[hbenthow]

I wonder if there's a way to do it in DaVinci Resolve?

EDIT: Also, has anyone here tried Resolve's built-in grain effect? It is adjustable, and I believe it's possible to adjust how much it shows in various parts of the image (midtones, highlights, etc). I've heard that some Hollywood productions use Resolve's grain effect.

 

[MightyAttackTribble]

I wonder if there's a way to do it in DaVinci Resolve?

EDIT: Also, has anyone here tried Resolve's built-in grain effect? It is adjustable, and I believe it's possible to adjust how much it shows in various parts of the image (midtones, highlights, etc). I've heard that some Hollywood productions use Resolve's grain effect.

In my experience, plug-in generated grain is okay if used sparingly. A few seconds here and there to help a clip blend in will generally look okay, but for entire movies I don't think I've seen one put out anything that looks natural. But I've also not used Resolve's, so I can't really comment on that one.

As bad as I hate Software as a service, the nice thing about it though is you can pay for it monthly and download Premiere only when you are ready to work on that feature. you can then cancel your subscription. I know, it's not ideal but easier on your wallet.

That's the route I'll likely take, since I'm already paying a monthly fee for Photoshop.