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Avengers: Endgame
(11-15-2019, 12:43 PM)Hymie Wrote:
(11-15-2019, 11:56 AM)musiced921 Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand the problem people have with the girl power scene.  It seems to be men who feel this way, but women, even superheroes over the years, are always out there with their boobs hanging out and short skirts fighting the bad guys until a man of some sort helps.  We're FINALLY in an age where female superheroes are not just eye candy, but can stand on their own without men always helping them.  To be honest, the Marvel franchise has ignored all of the women superheroes until now (and Black Widow is getting a movie NOW after so many years?!?!?!).

Little boys and girls need to see that men and women are equal and that goes with there being super-powered beings.  No one complains of the closeups of the Avengers Assemble charge with it being led by ALL men, so why complain about giving a shout out to all of the super-powered women without calling it a social justice pander or to appease snowflakes?  It's time we had more female representation in the superhero world without it always being damsels in distress.  

Sorry if this is too much of a rant, but I'm just not understanding the hate this short 10-20 second scene gets from men.

I understand complaints saying it felt forced as the way it was staged just felt too in your face and obvious what they were doing.  If they simply had the women assisting without all stopping during the middle of the battle to gather themselves and say what they were doing I don't think you'd get much complaints.  

Watching the deleted scenes on Disney+, there was another scene where everyone kind of stopped and gathered during the battle to collect themselves, so it seems to be something that they realized was an issue but probably couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution.  I think the same version of the scene in Infinity War where Black Widow comes to the rescue was executed much better and its clearly what they were going for and just couldn't find the right way to portray it on screen.

That's how I feel about it. I have no problems with the 'girl power' idea/concept or whatever, and I enjoyed the one in Infinity War, because it actually served a purpose, but this one literally made zero sense. Captain Marvel just obliterated Thanos' ship, she is supposedly the most powerful Avenger, and can fly over all the 'traffic' on the battlefield. But all these other, lots objectively weaker, female heroes thinks that she need their help. She doesn't. And if she did in the movie, she shouldn't. Sure, Okoye and Shuri may have a small impact on the overall battle (still not gonna matter to Captain Marvel), but even fucking Mantis is there to "help". It makes zero sense. Same would apply if it was all male characters, or just an ensemble shot in general. I wouldn't expect to see Fury helping out Thor on the battlefield (although he could probably fight better than Mantis), and that is where my problem with that scene lies.
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(11-15-2019, 11:56 AM)musiced921 Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand the problem people have with the girl power scene.  It seems to be men who feel this way, but women, even superheroes over the years, are always out there with their boobs hanging out and short skirts fighting the bad guys until a man of some sort helps.  We're FINALLY in an age where female superheroes are not just eye candy, but can stand on their own without men always helping them.  To be honest, the Marvel franchise has ignored all of the women superheroes until now (and Black Widow is getting a movie NOW after so many years?!?!?!).

Little boys and girls need to see that men and women are equal and that goes with there being super-powered beings.  No one complains of the closeups of the Avengers Assemble charge with it being led by ALL men, so why complain about giving a shout out to all of the super-powered women without calling it a social justice pander or to appease snowflakes?  It's time we had more female representation in the superhero world without it always being damsels in distress.  

Sorry if this is too much of a rant, but I'm just not understanding the hate this short 10-20 second scene gets from men.

Any scene that explicitly favors one group over another isn’t right. If all the men of marvel did the same thing you can bet there would be a lot of flak. Either we live in a world without sexism or favoritism or we don’t. This was the 10 year climax of super hero movies where the heroes fight the overwhelming odds to save their universe. Taking the time to make this social statement was completely uncalled for and really stealing from the audiences investment in their movies. No one has an issue with women superheroes, this isn’t an anti feminist thing. It isn’t personal if a comic book hero was made as a male.
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kkimble I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.
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(11-16-2019, 11:10 PM)musiced921 Wrote: kkimble I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with kkimble, for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.
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(11-16-2019, 11:10 PM)musiced921 Wrote: kkimble I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

You are right, I never intended to start a debate. We should make a new forum if we want to discuss that. Everyone is entitled to Their feelings about the movie (I simply mentioned mine) but few can deny how epic it was and how great it was to see the 10 year finish done so well.
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