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Avengers: Endgame
... More Avengers, more problems:

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So I finally saw this last week, after what felt like 16 years after everyone else saw it. Overall, it was very satisfying. Some stuff didn’t make sense, and there was some of the same stuff I didn’t like from Infinity War. But when the movie works right, it works better than anything else ever made in the MCU.

Random thoughts, mostly in chronological order:


--I would have liked it better if the first 20 minutes of this were the last 20 minutes of Infinity War. But I can see why the filmmakers preferred a cliffhanger to bring people back.

--With how much Feige has hyped Captain Marvel as the new center of the MCU, I was afraid that she would get overused in the film (not that I don’t like her; I just feel like we hardly know her yet). But she was in this movie just the right amount of time to do several important things without overshadowing the characters we were saying goodbye to.

--I thought Infinity War was a noisy mess lacking in characterization, but this film slows down enough to take time for its characters to process what they’re going through. The first hour of this is beautiful.

--I disliked Bruce-who-couldn’t-change in the last movie, so I loved Bruce-and-Hulk-being- reconciled-together in this one. Also loved outcast Steve fully returning to his role as Captain America in this one.

--Is this the biggest cast of all time assembled for any movie? I mean, there might have been bigger casts filled with extras, but is there any other movie that has more parts for notable characters and actors? We even get cameos by young CGI Howard Stark and young CGI Hank Pym, not to mention wordless cameos by Jane Foster and Nick Fury. 

--Speaking of Howard Stark, I’ve become so used to his appearance in Captain America and Agent Carter that it threw me when they used a different actor for this. I had to look it up to find out it’s the same actor from Iron Man 2 and Civil War

--I genuinely don’t remember: Has Thor never killed someone before? I get that most of the people close to him died (indeed, most of the people from his home realm died), but his sadness mostly seemed to focus on having killed Thanos. Nobody seems sad later in the movie when Tony kills Thanos.

--Did anyone else find it funny when they kept assigning Earth years to other planets and dimensions (i.e., “Asgard 2013”)? I get that this was the only way to keep the audience straight on when things were happening, but it seemed funny to think that distant planets would use an Earth calendar. That said, I’m going to use the same dates to keep track of things below.

--I’m always a sucker for a time travel story, but this one (as fun as it was) was confusing. I know they said “time travel doesn’t work like that” regarding Back to the Future and others, but they presented no clear, cohesive alternate set of rules. And so we’re left with weird contradictions like this:

* I get the metaphor of Nebula killing her past self. But shouldn’t she have blinked out of existence when she did that?
* Why did the Avengers decide that the snap should be undone to the current timeline (five years after the snap occurred)? If the problem is that they don’t want to mess with history, how is that any different than going back and changing things in the first place? 
* On that same note, it’s 2014 Thanos that they killed at the end of this movie. Doesn’t that mean he was never around to snap half the population out of existence in 2018? Shouldn’t that have reset everything?
* After it’s all over, Peter Parker walks into class and sees his classmates. But shouldn’t everyone else be five years older and already graduated from high school? Or are we meant to think that coincidentally every single person Peter knew happened to be snapped and then unsnapped? (I haven’t seen Far from Home yet, which may answer some of these questions.)
* We see 2014 Gamora still alive at the end, but then she isn’t on the ship with everyone else. So...is she not going to be part of Guardians 3? I mean, Natasha’s apparently not coming back because of the Soul Stone thing (except in her movie, which I’m guessing will be a prequel). If Gamora isn’t coming back, that’s kind of a big deal, but no one is talking about it. And if she is coming back, then why can’t Natasha?
* The heroes kept using Stark and Pym tech to travel through time. But once they had defeated Thanos, they had the Time Stone. Wouldn’t they be able to undo a few bad things that way? And if one can’t travel through time with the Time Stone, then what does it actually do? (Granted, I realize that, from a storytelling point of view, it would feel like a cheat if every bad thing just got easily done. But usually, time-travel stories have more clear rules or limits. I didn’t see anything preventing these characters from reversing bad stuff.)

--Hooray for Jarvis appearing from TV Land! I didn’t even realize it was the first crossover ever from TV to film, until someone else pointed it out.

--Thanos is still the worst part of the movie for me. I already ranted about him in my Infinity War review on this site, so I don’t want to go it over again if possible. But I loved this movie for two hours until he came back. The climax is still great, but Thanos is fingernails on a chalkboard for me every time he speaks.

-- I forgot that Vision had been killed normally rather than snapped. I was totally expecting to see him at the climax.

--Three best lines of dialogue in the movie, in order of how awesome they were: 
3) ”On your left.”
2) ”I am inevitable.” “And I...am...Iron Man.”
”Avengers...assemble.” (I waited four movies for that! When I finally heard it, I actually jumped out of my chair and said, “Yes!” My wife thought it was hilarious.)

--Pepper Potts in an Iron Man suit? Amazing!

-- Spider-Man previously refused to put his suit in Kill Mode. Why did he do it now? Was he fighting robots instead of people?

--Unfortunately, I had been spoiled that Tony died in this movie. But it actually worked out surprisingly to my benefit in the long run: Since I knew it was true, and not going to be undone a minute later by time travel/magic/what have you, I legitimately got choked up. I think I even shed a few tears. It was a powerful moment.

--Sam is now no longer Falcon; he’s Captain America. That’s what I honestly expected. So why does Disney+ have a series in the works called Falcon and Winter Solider?

--As much as I loved the Agent Carter series and the new characters created for it, I’m oddly at peace with the series’ cancellation now. If the show had continued, all effort would have been put behind Peggy’s new relationship on that show. But now, Steve and Peggy are together. They finally got their dance. That’s a happy ending I didn’t even realize I wanted. 

--I had previously commented that the MCU didn’t reuse its themes enough. This time, I caught Cap’s 1940s theme and (of course) the regular Avengers theme. The end credits mentioned Doc Strange’s theme and Ant-Man’s theme. Did anyone catch anything else? 

So, again, very satisfying closing of the saga. Looking forward to catching up belatedly on both Far from Home and Captain Marvel, and looking forward to what else Feige and co. want to bring us.
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Replying... spoilers, but it's out on home media now, so...
 
(08-31-2019, 11:21 AM)TomH1138 Wrote: --Speaking of Howard Stark, I’ve become so used to his appearance in Captain America and Agent Carter that it threw me when they used a different actor for this. I had to look it up to find out it’s the same actor from Iron Man 2 and Civil War
The first scene of Ant-Man, too.

--I genuinely don’t remember: Has Thor never killed someone before? I get that most of the people close to him died (indeed, most of the people from his home realm died), but his sadness mostly seemed to focus on having killed Thanos. Nobody seems sad later in the movie when Tony kills Thanos.
Thor has killed tons, and is proud of that. He isn't sad about having killed Thanos; he's ashamed of having failed to stop the Snap and thus lost to him in the first place, and depressed over the fact that subsequently killing him didn't undo that defeat one bit.

* Why did the Avengers decide that the snap should be undone to the current timeline (five years after the snap occurred)? If the problem is that they don’t want to mess with history, how is that any different than going back and changing things in the first place?
Tony said they didn't have the right to take away the five years people lived, or undo the lives (including his daughter's) created since then, and Steve agreed.

* On that same note, it’s 2014 Thanos that they killed at the end of this movie. Doesn’t that mean he was never around to snap half the population out of existence in 2018?
The movie's one consistent time travel rule is it doesn't operate by BttF rules.

--Pepper Potts in an Iron Man suit? Amazing!
Already done in IM3. Wink

-- Spider-Man previously refused to put his suit in Kill Mode. Why did he do it now? Was he fighting robots instead of people?
Aliens aren't humans. Tongue

--Sam is now no longer Falcon; he’s Captain America. That’s what I honestly expected. So why does Disney+ have a series in the works called Falcon and Winter Solider?
The shield symbolizes him taking up Steve's mantle, but it doesn't automatically make him Captain America. He won't be Captain America until he himself decides to take up the name. My guess is the series will end with him doing so.
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(08-31-2019, 12:00 PM)Gaith Wrote: Replying... spoilers, but it's out on home media now, so...
 
(08-31-2019, 11:21 AM)TomH1138 Wrote: --Speaking of Howard Stark, I’ve become so used to his appearance in Captain America and Agent Carter that it threw me when they used a different actor for this. I had to look it up to find out it’s the same actor from Iron Man 2 and Civil War
The first scene of Ant-Man, too. Ooh, I forgot about that! Good call.

--I genuinely don’t remember: Has Thor never killed someone before? I get that most of the people close to him died (indeed, most of the people from his home realm died), but his sadness mostly seemed to focus on having killed Thanos. Nobody seems sad later in the movie when Tony kills Thanos.
Thor has killed tons, and is proud of that. He isn't sad about having killed Thanos; he's ashamed of having failed to stop the Snap and thus lost to him in the first place, and depressed over the fact that subsequently killing him didn't undo that defeat one bit. That makes sense. That's what I thought would be the reason, but somehow the dialogue threw me off. 

* Why did the Avengers decide that the snap should be undone to the current timeline (five years after the snap occurred)? If the problem is that they don’t want to mess with history, how is that any different than going back and changing things in the first place?
Tony said they didn't have the right to take away the five years people lived, or undo the lives (including his daughter's) created since then, and Steve agreed. Ooh, right! Tony's daughter. I get that now.

* On that same note, it’s 2014 Thanos that they killed at the end of this movie. Doesn’t that mean he was never around to snap half the population out of existence in 2018?
The movie's one consistent time travel rule is it doesn't operate by BttF rules. Heh. Yeah, again, I don't mind them not being BTTF, but they should have made it clearer how things did work. Oh, well. 

--Pepper Potts in an Iron Man suit? Amazing!
Already done in IM3. Wink Oh, I think I remember that now. At first, I only remembered her being Cool Mutant Woman, and then having her powers surgically removed at the end of the movie. Pepper hadn't had a chance to do much in the Avengers movies, so I'm glad she got to do something here. 

-- Spider-Man previously refused to put his suit in Kill Mode. Why did he do it now? Was he fighting robots instead of people?
Aliens aren't humans. Tongue  Heh. I guess. They are still sentient life forms, though. I mean, Captain America killed Nazis, so I'm not judging Spidey. It only seems weird when they set up a rule for him but then don't follow it through. I won't lose sleep over it or anything, though. 

--Sam is now no longer Falcon; he’s Captain America. That’s what I honestly expected. So why does Disney+ have a series in the works called Falcon and Winter Solider?
The shield symbolizes him taking up Steve's mantle, but it doesn't automatically make him Captain America. He won't be Captain America until he himself decides to take up the name. My guess is the series will end with him doing so. Yeah, I agree--it seems very likely that's how the series will end.

Great responses. Thanks for your insights!
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