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Introducing Kids To Star Wars
#41
(04-11-2018, 09:30 AM)Detective Wrote:
(04-11-2018, 08:22 AM)ThrowgnCpr Wrote:
(04-11-2018, 06:39 AM)Detective Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 02:06 PM)ThrowgnCpr Wrote: I don't want to see any more films, Star Wars or otherwise, with paper thin cliched good guys fighting the baddies.

If so, I'm curious how you view Rey.

I quite like Rey's character. I'm sure you're hinting at the Mary Sue argument, and I hold that this remains a weak and sexist argument. I liken Rey's abilities with the Force to any child or young person that shows incredible talent in something. I also love how her character brings back the gist of the Force from the OT. The bloodline/midichlorian/prophecy stuff from the PT was deflating and uninteresting.

I also feel that Rey's character is very similar to that of a young Luke. She has an inherent, unexplored talent for the Force and is passionate and headstrong (like many young adults). I don't find Luke's behavior or attitude 40 years later surprising or out of character. In fact, I would be shocked if he were the same impassioned leap-first do-gooder he was when he was 19 years old.  I also don't expect or require as a viewer see all of the events that happen in that 40 year span to accept how a character is portrayed. It is a logical progression in my mind.  I expect that the next 40 years of Rey's life, whatever that holds, will be challenging, and it will alter who she is as a person. At ~40 years old myself, I can assure you that I am nothing like my 19 year old self.

To bring this back on topic, I think that Rey is a fantastic character for kids. More than any character before in the saga, it shows that with a combination of natural talent and drive, anyone can do good and be important. No royal bloodlines or prophecies apply.

I'm not hinting at a Mary Sue argument - I'm hinting that she is just as "cliched good guy" and binary as Luke was in the OT.  But I agree and I like that aspect of her character too - someone simply "with a good heart".  Neither of them have any wavering in their sense of doing the right thing, regardless of the horrible things going on around them - that's who they are.

People change over 40 years of life, but how common is it to get to Luke's level of apathy in TLJ from the personality of Luke in the OT - especially after he had succeeded in his goal?  It's a complete 180.  Usually the angry old hermit comes from a cynical life-weary traveller who was mistreated by those they cared about most.  The journey just isn't realistic to me. Great if you all think it is - that's fine - I just don't see it.  Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

I also agree and disliked the midichorlian/prophecy/bloodline stuff of the PT - anyone should be able to train and sense and move with the Force.  Some may find it easier to do so more than others - but all can access the Force on some level, and can improve with practice and hard work - yes - that is a much better foundation for a story for kids.

I think that you need to accept that you don’t see the movie the way many of us do. You didn’t get the Luke you wanted and now no amount of explaining to you the character arc decisions seem to sway you. Not that I think anyone is trying to sway you. But you clearly simply don’t want to listen so this is a pointless discussion (that we’ve had with you countless times). Maybe save your virtual breath for a couple of months for your complaints about Solo.
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#42
(04-11-2018, 09:36 AM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: I think that you need to accept that you don’t see the movie the way many of us do. You didn’t get the Luke you wanted and now no amount of explaining to you the character arc decisions seem to sway you. Not that I think anyone is trying to sway you. But you clearly simply don’t want to listen so this is a pointless discussion (that we’ve had with you countless times). Maybe save your virtual breath for a couple of months for your complaints about Solo.

^ All this. Frankly, Detective, I don't really care that you disliked TLJ or the direction of Luke's character. What gets frustrating, and when I feel the need to respond, is when snide remarks like "Johnson clearly hates Luke" and "The Last Jedi now makes me like the prequels" are peppered into any thread discussing Star Wars. It's nonsensical, hyperbolic, and borderline trolling. I'm really sorry that Luke's character arc isn't what you wanted. But continually interjecting your vitriol for the film isn't going to result in the sequel you wanted.
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#43
(04-11-2018, 09:30 AM)Detective Wrote: Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

Ah ha. I would consider this perfectly valid criticism of the film. They broke the "show, don't tell" rule. That's nothing to do with personal preference or opinion. A reasonable and objective complaint. 

I also agree the new films' themes are better for kids than the prequels' themes.
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#44
One thing that didn't get mentioned re: Rey and kids, my daughters love her for many reasons, but a primary one is she's female.  This is something the OT is sorely lacking (Leia aside).

They also like Leia and Holdo in TLJ.
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#45
[Image: XPfydvv.gif]

Enough with the TLJ debates. Let's get this back on topic.
You're an adult. Just cope.
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#46
addiesin Wrote:
Detective Wrote:Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

Ah ha. I would consider this perfectly valid criticism of the film. They broke the "show, don't tell" rule. That's nothing to do with personal preference or opinion. A reasonable and objective complaint. 

I also agree the new films' themes are better for kids than the prequels' themes.

Maybe that's something we could have seen if Episodes VII and VIII had come out in the 80s or 90s, but making a movie starring Mark Hamill 35 years older than he was in Return of the Jedi necessitates having a Luke that's 35 years older as well. Maybe we could have had some flashbacks beyond the Kylo scene but I don't know how much a couple of extra flashbacks really could have done and anything more than a glimpse would open the gates to terrible CGI face reconstruction like we got with Tarkin and Leia.
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#47
(04-11-2018, 10:11 AM)reave Wrote: Enough with the TLJ debates. Let's get this back on topic.
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#48
(04-10-2018, 01:50 PM)TVs Frink Wrote: Yes, if you're trying to protect your son from seeing Luke "ruined" then I'm gonna roll my eyes at it.

I completely agree with you but, while I don't want to be like a devil's advocate here or something, I'm curious about your opinion on this:

TVs Frink Wrote:I'm not going to hide the SE of the OT or the originals of the PT forever (in fact, I will explain in great detail what happened to both when the time is right), but I'll be damned if the first exposure they have to SW is the bastardized SE or the crap of the PT.

This was from my Phantom Menace Minimal Politics thread. First, did you explain them what happened, and I wonder how you did so?

Second, how is protecting your children from seeing Luke "ruined" different from protecting your children from seeing "the crap" of the Prequels? I'm assuming the Jar-Jar toilet humor or teen Anakin being creepy are in the "crap" category, in which case I agree with you.

Again I'm young and I don't have children so I probably don't understand, but I'm just curious Big Grin
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#49
Have not done so yet, although honestly there's more pressing life issues so I probably won't until it actually comes up organically.

And I'm not rolling my eyes at protecting kids from anything, I'm rolling my eyes at the claim that Luke was ruined.  Which as has been stated, is off-topic, so let's let that part go.
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#50
(04-11-2018, 10:50 AM)TVs Frink Wrote: Have not done so yet, although honestly there's more pressing life issues so I probably won't until it actually comes up organically.

And I'm not rolling my eyes at protecting kids from anything, I'm rolling my eyes at the claim that Luke was ruined.  Which as has been stated, is off-topic, so let's let that part go.

Yeah agreed with the Luke part. That’s all I’ll say about that Smile

Anyway, about introducing kids to Star Wars... if I had kids I’d probably observe when they’re ready according to how they respond to other movies and their possibly sensitive parts. Maybe if they really wanted to see some Star Wars and I felt they were not ready for the films, I’d show them the Clone Wars shows and Rebels, but of course I’d be extra careful about parts that spoil the movies, like the Mortis arc in TCW or later seasons of Rebels.

Once they are ready for the films, I’d probably go Machete Order using the Despecialized OT, not so drastic PT edits, and theatrical ST & Anthology films. Details below.


Star Wars: Despecialized
Empire: Despecialized
Menace: Either not at all, or a faster paced edit with Jar-Jar toilet humor also toned down
Clones: Edit with a more sympathetic Anakin, TPM flashbacks included if Menace was skipped
Sith: Theatrical
Return of the Jedi: Despecialized
Force Awakens: Theatrical
Last Jedi: Extended or edit with certain deleted scenes but Canto Bight plus original finale intact, okay if trimmed (I could do this)
IX: Depends
Rogue One: Theatrical
Solo: Depends
Obi-Wan: Depends

Personally I probably wouldn’t hide different versions of the films, official or fanedited, but I’d be the judge on which version is the one they’d see first.

It’d also be awesome if they were into retro games and loved the Knights of the Old Republic games, or alternatively I’d show them the KotOR fan films by Kevin Smets and DarthYcey on YouTube. They’re kind of like animated movies. Sort of.
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