Why don't people review?

[PanteraSteel]

Question for everyone regarding Reviews:

If you dislike the decisions a fan editor makes (which scenes to add/cut etc.) but you knew about those changes going into watching the film (because of the change list) should you really deduct points on the review score?? If I dislike the new narrative of a film, but I knew I would dislike it going into it, is it fair to criticize the film and leave a less than perfect score on the review sheet??? I'm not sure...

Does that make sense? Maybe it's a stupid question. I've been requesting a lot of fan edits lately, so I need to start writing my first reviews but I'm a little torn on this. I'm a numbers guy, so I guess I feel like, if my review is going to bring down the total score of a fan edit maybe I shouldn't even bother with a review...? I should clarify I'm speaking of FANFIXES. Can I really deduct points and bring someone's score down because their version isn't how I would have done it? See what I'm saying?? I'm thinking I may just focus on the quality of the transitions and give an honest score there while I just give everyone a 10 for pretty much everything else.

On one hand I feel like if I have nothing nice to say (about the narrative), don't say anything at all. On the other hand, honest feedback given respectfully is always good right??

Oh, and for the record, I reached out to an editor privately recently and this post is not about that editor or their work.

 

[krausfadr]

Yeah some of the reviews go into such specific detail about all scenes they would like to have included or removed-- you know everything other than what the faneditor chose to do. If someone wants very specific things like that they should learn how to fanedit because only their own vision could ever really make them happy.

 

[tremault]

I think if I watch a fanedit knowing there is something I disagree with, it's my responsibility to attempt to evaluate that on it's intention and skill. That's just my opinion and how I would approach it. I'd still probably mention why i disagree with it in the body of my review, but I wouldn't score down due to my differing opinion.

 

[INIGHTMARES]

@PanteraSteel I feel like the reviewer should start with the mindset that they are wanting to watch quality. No one here is making edits of Asylum films unironically for a reason.

Reviewers should read the Intention section of the IFDB posting along with the cutlist. The editor's intended goal should play a part in the reviewer's mind as they write as well, if the review is going into great detail.

 

[INIGHTMARES]

duplicate post please delete. my bad.

 

[DonKamillo]

DonKamillo presents TFERB (THE FAN EDIT REVIEW BINGO):

Take a shot if your reviewer...

... liked the original movie as is but chose to watch a fan edit with big narrative changes and deducts points in the Narrative category for said changes
... gives you like a 3/10 in the Enjoyment category but assures you that they still mean well because they would've given the original movie a 1/10
... deducts points in the Video/Audio Quality category, even though they didn't want your high quality file because it's too big

 

[Eyepainter]

Question for everyone regarding Reviews:

If you dislike the decisions a fan editor makes (which scenes to add/cut etc.) but you knew about those changes going into watching the film (because of the change list) should you really deduct points on the review score?? If I dislike the new narrative of a film, but I knew I would dislike it going into it, is it fair to criticize the film and leave a less than perfect score on the review sheet??? I'm not sure...

Does that make sense? Maybe it's a stupid question. I've been requesting a lot of fan edits lately, so I need to start writing my first reviews but I'm a little torn on this. I'm a numbers guy, so I guess I feel like, if my review is going to bring down the total score of a fan edit maybe I shouldn't even bother with a review...? I should clarify I'm speaking of FANFIXES. Can I really deduct points and bring someone's score down because their version isn't how I would have done it? See what I'm saying?? I'm thinking I may just focus on the quality of the transitions and give an honest score there while I just give everyone a 10 for pretty much everything else.

On one hand I feel like if I have nothing nice to say (about the narrative), don't say anything at all. On the other hand, honest feedback given respectfully is always good right??

Oh, and for the record, I reached out to an editor privately recently and this post is not about that editor or their work.

To quote Lester Bangs from Almost Famous: Be honest and unmerciful. I think there is a temptation to give a false positive towards an edit, which I think can be worse than a bad review. This is one of the reasons I enjoy watching a YouTuber called YourMovieSucksDotOrg, who is unusually harsh in his movie reviews. I don't agree with him all the time, but I at least feel like he's telling it the way he saw it and not just bowing to the crowds. It may not always be pleasant, but he's a breath of fresh air compared to the false positives of YouTubers like Chris Stuckmann and Jeremy Jahns.

Here's the thing. The whole point of a review is literally to review, not pat someone on the back and give them a cookie. Put yourself in the editor's shoes. Would you rather have a reviewer who does nothing but tell you, "Oh, your edit was perfect in every way! 10 million stars!" all the time? Or would you rather have someone who is willing to say, "Okay, this thing was good. This thing was bad. It was alright, I guess. Could've been better, though"? The latter may not be as fun to hear, but at least it's constructive. At least it goes into detail over the edit. And if we're talking about fanfixes here, most likely the editor in question is trying to "fix" the film (Unless you're TV's Frink). In that context, it makes sense to ask if the edit really did fix the film or not, and whether I would recommend it to a friend or not.

 

[mnkykungfu]

If you dislike the decisions a fan editor makes but you knew about those changes going into watching the film should you really deduct points on the review score??

No. (Great question though!)

The "Intention" section of the fanedit is there for a reason. Look, not every fanedit needs to be for every person. If you read the description and it doesn't sound like what you'd want to see, why watch? There's tons of "content" <ugh> out there, no need to watch something you're already predisposed not to like.

if my review is going to bring down the total score of a fan edit maybe I shouldn't even bother with a review...?

So, what, every fanedit should have a perfect score? What's the point then?
Look, I get that people put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this, and you can almost never get tired of hearing compliments. That said, why does anything less than perfect 10s have to be a bad thing? I can give a film a 9 for Audio and an 8 for Narrative, and still really value the work. Not everything has to be perfect.

On one hand I feel like if I have nothing nice to say (about the narrative), don't say anything at all.

I feel like this is actually part of the problem. People might feel pressure to not say anything negative, but they don't want to just blow smoke up someone's ass. So the only reviews you see are glowing. So then maybe you watch a FanFix that you were skeptical about, just because all the reviews said "This is the most amazing edit since sliced bread! It fixed every single problem with the film, AND ended world hunger! I was skeptical before watching but now I'm getting the cover art tattooed on my face!"
I mean, if that's how you honestly feel, okay, but I kind of feel like some people give false praise just to be encouraging, and that kind of demeans real praise that's thought out and honest.

Personally, I try to evaluate a fanedit based on the intention of the editor. If they say they want to make it less funny, then I don't feel justified in marking down my Enjoyment and saying "I missed a lot of the jokes." On the other hand, if they say "I wanted to fix the plot hole so that now it makes sense when Superman kills that guy", and I watch and feel that nothing they did makes that make any more sense than the theatrical version, then I feel it's honest feedback to say the editor did not achieve what they were trying for.

Who knows? Sometimes editors get new ideas after some feedback, and they'll decide to revisit the work later and come up with a better way to fulfil their vision.

 

[PanteraSteel]

thanks for the feedback.

I guess there is also an element of "who the hell am I to critique this editor" also going on. I have about 4 fan edits I made for my own private use that I absolutely love and have surpassed the official versions to me but at the same time I'm a total rookie editor that basically is just using the cross-fade tool. Like I always say, 99.9% of my editing is working on transitions. I kind of feel like the rookie quarterback walking on to a team saying...."Hey Joe Montana, that pass was way off." So, because I'm new I don't want to burn any bridges on the site, but I also refuse to be a phony.

Here, I'll give a general review of common themes I'm seeing. If I'm going to burn bridges this is probably the comment that'll do it, but that's not my intention. I'm noticing a lot of editors with skills that far exceed mine, seem to be making some mistakes on simple transitions. These are editors that can do circles around me all day long in the talent department. What I think is happening is the following: I think a lot of very talented people are spending a lot of time doing visual upgrades and other amazing technical accomplishments I can only dream of and the simple transitions are getting the short end of the stick. To be perfectly honest this has surprised me as a relatively new member of the site. It really has. I think sometimes you have to sit with a transition for a while to know if it really works. Are the transitions not the most important part of a fan edit?? It seems to me they would be. On one of my edits, I pieced together this scene, and I was happy with it, I showed my wife, and she was happy with it. We thought it was awesome. Fast forward a few months later when we revisited my film and we got to the scene and looked at each other like..."WTF was that?" The scene sucked. My transition was jarring to say the least. So, I learned a few new things and did the scene over from scratch. In my opinion that one scene turned my edit from an amateur unwatchable edit to a perfectly respectable take on the film. I really think one bad transition can ruin a fan edit. Maybe I'm in the minority here.

So that's my honest opinion. I'm not trying to burn bridges nor am I trying to be disrespectful to anyone or anything in this community. I'd like to be here for a long time to come. I'd like to learn from all of you how to make better edits. I also greatly appreciate the moderators that have been incredibly helpful to me. Seriously I appreciate it. I'd also like to sincerely thank all of the editors that took the time to share their passion projects with me and the editors that didn't because without you all I never would have made my own versions of these films that I love. So thank you.

Maybe this feedback will lead to better edits on this site. Maybe it'll lead to me being blacklisted. I have no idea. I guess I'll find out.

 

[PanteraSteel]

No. (Great question though!)

The "Intention" section of the fanedit is there for a reason. Look, not every fanedit needs to be for every person. If you read the description and it doesn't sound like what you'd want to see, why watch? There's tons of "content" <ugh> out there, no need to watch something you're already predisposed not to like.


So, what, every fanedit should have a perfect score? What's the point then?
Look, I get that people put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this, and you can almost never get tired of hearing compliments. That said, why does anything less than perfect 10s have to be a bad thing? I can give a film a 9 for Audio and an 8 for Narrative, and still really value the work. Not everything has to be perfect.

I feel like this is actually part of the problem. People might feel pressure to not say anything negative, but they don't want to just blow smoke up someone's ass. So the only reviews you see are glowing. So then maybe you watch a FanFix that you were skeptical about, just because all the reviews said "This is the most amazing edit since sliced bread! It fixed every single problem with the film, AND ended world hunger! I was skeptical before watching but now I'm getting the cover art tattooed on my face!"
I mean, if that's how you honestly feel, okay, but I kind of feel like some people give false praise just to be encouraging, and that kind of demeans real praise that's thought out and honest.

Personally, I try to evaluate a fanedit based on the intention of the editor. If they say they want to make it less funny, then I don't feel justified in marking down my Enjoyment and saying "I missed a lot of the jokes." On the other hand, if they say "I wanted to fix the plot hole so that now it makes sense when Superman kills that guy", and I watch and feel that nothing they did makes that make any more sense than the theatrical version, then I feel it's honest feedback to say the editor did not achieve what they were trying for.

Who knows? Sometimes editors get new ideas after some feedback, and they'll decide to revisit the work later and come up with a better way to fulfil their vision.

Thank you. Lots of good points.

 

[tremault]

Maybe this feedback will lead to better edits on this site. Maybe it'll lead to me being blacklisted. I have no idea. I guess I'll find out.

I don't think anyone would blacklist you for being honest and constructive, but I understand the feeling of putting yourself out there. It can be hard saying something you feel might hurt someone. I would always welcome somebody telling me I did a crappy cut, We're all human and we can miss stuff.

 

[PanteraSteel]

I don't think anyone would blacklist you for being honest and constructive, but I understand the feeling of putting yourself out there. It can be hard saying something you feel might hurt someone. I would always welcome somebody telling me I did a crappy cut, We're all human and we can miss stuff.

Thank you. I appreciate this reply I really do. Have a nice day

 

[krausfadr]

I couldn’t agree with you more PanetraSteel. If there is a jarring transition problem in someone’s edit I otherwise like, I remove that edit from my mantle until it’s fixed. And usually they don’t get fixed. I don’t fault faneditors too much for this either— because I know how it feels to be DONE with an edit. 2 day long 4K render complete. Check. Forgot to delete a clip that didn’t belong. Oh sh*****!

 

[PanteraSteel]

I couldn’t agree with you more PanetraSteel. If there is a jarring transition problem in someone’s edit I otherwise like, I remove that edit from my mantle until it’s fixed. And usually they don’t get fixed. I don’t fault faneditors too much for this either— because I know how it feels to be DONE with an edit. 2 day long 4K render complete. Check. Forgot to delete a clip that didn’t belong. Oh sh*****!

thanks. I was a little worried I was going to get slaughtered for my comment, but I think I said everything as respectfully as possible. I'm really just trying to be real and honest.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Question for everyone regarding Reviews:

If you dislike the decisions a fan editor makes (which scenes to add/cut etc.) but you knew about those changes going into watching the film (because of the change list) should you really deduct points on the review score?? If I dislike the new narrative of a film, but I knew I would dislike it going into it, is it fair to criticize the film and leave a less than perfect score on the review sheet??? I'm not sure...

I personally take the approach that the score for editing should be on the actual skill of the edit. Whether or not I agree with the editing choices doesn't belong in either of the Audio Editing and Video Editing areas. The same with video quality. It's either good because the image is good, or it needs work. If the narrative works without issues, it shouldn't really be docked points. If it is flawless a 10, if there are some issues but it doesn't distract or derail 7-9 depending on severity. Some distracting narrative issues 6. Major narrative issues 0-5. Enjoyment is the only real area that I feel should be subjective. I also feel that the enjoyment score shouldn't be less than the unaltered source enjoyment score was, unless the editing or narrative created unresolvable issues.

Does that make sense? Maybe it's a stupid question. I've been requesting a lot of fan edits lately, so I need to start writing my first reviews but I'm a little torn on this. I'm a numbers guy, so I guess I feel like, if my review is going to bring down the total score of a fan edit maybe I shouldn't even bother with a review...? I should clarify I'm speaking of FANFIXES. Can I really deduct points and bring someone's score down because their version isn't how I would have done it? See what I'm saying?? I'm thinking I may just focus on the quality of the transitions and give an honest score there while I just give everyone a 10 for pretty much everything else.

Your review shouldn't be based on anyone else's experience with the edit beyond your own. It's your review and experience with the edit. I've rated some mixes really low compared to others. It's not mean or with mal intent, it's just my experience with the edit.

On one hand I feel like if I have nothing nice to say (about the narrative), don't say anything at all. On the other hand, honest feedback given respectfully is always good right??

Preface your edits with intention and be tactful in the feedback you give and let the editor interpret the feedback how they will. Hopefully they'll see it as constructive, as long as it's delivered that way.

We all don't think alike or even experience life in the same way. That shouldn't cause us not to share our ideas and to listen to each other's experiences and perceptions. Feedback, praising or pointing out issues is still valuable. I think the key is ensuring that we all trust that feedback is given with good intention.

 

[Adabisi]

You guys put a bit too much thought into what is a fairly simple exercise. There are no rules to reviewing.

If you didn't like the cutlist and the edit didn't change your mind, nothing should stop you from leaving a negative review. I've been pleasantly surprised by a number of edits that looked like bad ideas on paper that knocked my socks off. But the opposite is true as well. I knocked a point off an otherwise great Scarface edit because the editor removed the "Say hello to my little friend" line, which is near sacrilege.

It's all quite straightforward:

1. Did you like the edit or not?
2. Why?
3. Submit review.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

I agree with you that the negative aspect shouldn't keep someone from reviewing. I think though that subjective takes on edits would serve best in the enjoyment area rather than the skill areas.

 

[mnkykungfu]

I guess there is also an element of "who the hell am I to critique this editor" also going on.

I know what you mean. It's really easy to criticize, much more difficult to do better yourself. I think carefully about the words I use when I review, trying to choose ones that criticize in a constructive, encouraging way and not sound dismissive.

It's not quite so simple to criticize things imho, because at the end of the day this is art, and whereas one person might say "this transition clearly doesn't work", another might say "I thought that was a cool stylistic choice". I try not to have such rigid thinking and make declarative statements. I'm sure I fall short sometimes, but I do make an effort to qualify my statements like "the cuts in the scene didn't really work for me."

Whether or not I agree with the editing choices doesn't belong in either of the Audio Editing and Video Editing areas

^This is my guiding principle as well. I often give perfect scores in these areas, as most of the editors here are phenomenally skilled. The approval process and the act of getting feedback on an ITW page tends to end up with an edit that is very smoothly-executed and highly-professional. Seriously, the edits on the site these days are just head-and-shoulders above the edits from 10 years ago.

So when I have issues with the editing, I often have to put that into Narrative or Enjoyment, and describe a bit about what didn't work so well for me in the review. There's nothing technically wrong with the edit (the Math of it) but the big picture, the establishment of tone and flow might not have worked (the Art of it). That's obviously subjective, but you can be nice and honor the editor's work while explaining where it didn't connect with you. (That said, I'm sure I probably don't appreciate the editors nearly enough! I mean, I can't even be bothered to edit my vacation videos together, much less a film narrative!)

 

[krausfadr]

There are no rules to reviewing.

There are guidelines on the review page with categories to score in, which is what some people were referencing in this thread. So it's not just a did you like it sort of thing.

 

[Adabisi]

There are guidelines on the review page with categories to score in, which is what some people were referencing in this thread. So it's not just a did you like it sort of thing.

Are you talking about the little "i" with the circle around it pop-up (not sure if there's a word for that) on each star category? I would pay no mind to those. According to that, you'd have to give every grindhouse edit 0 stars for Audio Editing:

Please rate the overall quality of the audio editing for this edit. Were the cuts smooth and blend in or were they rough, abrupt and obvious?

Every aspect of your review is subjective, from technical ratings to overall enjoyment.