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The Batman (2021)
- Thread starter Zarius
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Moe_Syzlak
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I’m definitely not completely negative on it. I agree that the cinematography was great, if too dark. I liked the more detective-centric aspects. But he is alternatively figuring things out through, what?, ESP; and overlooking obvious things as the plot demands. I kept thinking it’s good that this is a superhero movie because these plot contrivances would never fly in the more serious movies it seemingly emulates. And it’s an hour too long. The whole Madison Square Garden climax felt like it belonged in a different movie. It was as if some studio suit said, “where’s the third act like in the Marvel movies?” and they tacked that on. In short, I think the script needed a few more passes. It was frustratingly close to being a good movie.Everybody just listing the negatives in here so I have to jump in with some positives
TB won't dethrone TDK for me but it sure is the best Graphic Novel type Batman movie IMO
- - Cinematography. The selective focus was masterfully used, telling little stories within single shots. Example of the same technique failing in an epic fashion: Zack Snyder's Army of the Dead. Greig Fraser has really outdone himself on this one (after his great work on Rogue One and Dune).
- - Cool fight scenes with great choreography, shot in a way, where you can actually follow what is happening (Marvel can learn something here).
- - Neat little details like...
[*]...the Batarang on his chest being forged out of the gun that killed his parents
[*]...the dark make up around his eyes (which magically disappears with every other Batman when they take off the mask).
[*]...Batman using a substance similar to Bane's Venom- ...and probably a lot more Easter Eggs I missed
- - There's a bit of comedy in this is and unlike Justice League, it doesn't feel forced (Oz interrogation scene, Officer Martinez , Interactions with Gordon, etc.)
- - Bruce Wayne being the mask and Batman the real persona really hit home in this. He seems like a legit psychopath in a lot of scenes (like it should be after the trauma he experienced). Looking forward to see how the character develops in the next movie(s) and grows more into the Bruce Wayne role.
- - Colin Farell
- - Batman does actual Detective Work (and has a lot to learn, like it should be)
- - The new Batman Theme! Can't get it out of my head. Great work by Michael Giacchino on the whole score.
Seeing as it is the first and there is more to come, I'm curious where they go from here...
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They could've definitely done without some of the twists and turns in the movie, especially...
...but to me the movie structure didn't feel like a traditional three act story but more like a graphic novel, which is a collection of multiple comic issues, where each one tells a complete little story in of itself...
...while simultaneously adding more and more pieces to the puzzle which makes up the overarching story:
That's why the movie takes its time and you get multiple little third acts sprinkled throughout the movie each one finishing up one of the little stories...
... the explanation about what Bruce's father did to protect his family being changed/reversed immediately in the next scene...
...but to me the movie structure didn't feel like a traditional three act story but more like a graphic novel, which is a collection of multiple comic issues, where each one tells a complete little story in of itself...
- Who is Selina Kyle?
- What happened to Selina's friend and why?
- Who is the rat?
- Why were Bruce's parents killed?
etc.
- What happened to Selina's friend and why?
- Who is the rat?
- Why were Bruce's parents killed?
etc.
...while simultaneously adding more and more pieces to the puzzle which makes up the overarching story:
Who is the Riddler, why is he killing all these people and how is all that connected to Bruce and his past?
That's why the movie takes its time and you get multiple little third acts sprinkled throughout the movie each one finishing up one of the little stories...
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Definitely going to explore the possibility of turning this thing into a mini series, when it comes out on Bluray (ideally with additional scenes that didn't make the cut)... 
Darth Kermit
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Agreed. And even though it’s dark costumes in low light a lot of times, it’s still photographed to be clearly visible. I hated those mid 2000’s fights where it’s black on black, sometimes with added shaky cam and bad editing. But the editing and photography in this made black on black work fine. Also agreed on Marvel action (besides of course Shang Chi and it’s wonderful Hong Kong influence).
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maybe there was something wrong with the screening I was at. But, while i could tell the shots should look nice, the lighting was just so dim. No clarity to anything on screen, it just looked dark and washed out. I couldn't tell what was going on during the car chase - and I know that was to do with the grading/lighting, not the way it was directed. A friend of mine on the other side of the world had the same experience. I honestly found it to be so much worse than seeing Solo.
Moe_Syzlak
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To be clear, I have no issues with movies that take their time. I watched the similar length Drive My Car recently and I never once looked at the clock because I was captivated as the story pulled me along (it should be noted that it achieved that without a single explosion or car chase
). The Batman—regardless of or maybe because of its structure—felt every minute of its runtime. The issue is exacerbated by the fact that it feels like it is ending way before it actually does. As I said (in the other thread perhaps), the MSG climax felt tacked on simply for a showy climax. It is also odd that a movie that felt overly long has so much that felt underdeveloped.
Driver
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My thoughts on the movie:
Robert Pattinson is an ok Batman, but a laughable Bruce Wayne, as it felt like they were way too tryhard on the emo aspect. Pattinson would've been better off as a Red Hood.
Though Paul Dano overacted a bit at times, the Riddler was a pretty cool villain that I wished interacted with Batman more...until the reveal that he's basically a Twitch streamer, as right now, I can't really find that concept scary in media.
Zoe Kravitz is fine as Catwoman on her own, but the romance with her and Batman doesn't work for me, as I found the actors having 0 chemistry with each other.
Michael Giacchino overall did a pretty good job with the score, though some the songs could've been trimmed a bit.
Colin Farell's transformation and acting as the Penguin is pretty cool, but they probably could've just saved time and money getting an actor that looked close enough to him and adding some make up and prosthetics here and there.
The movie felt way too long, as it felt like it could ended at least 2 times before it actually did. Did not need to be almost 3 hours.
Not a bad movie overall, but in addition to my issues with it, after almost 2 decades of having a dark Batman in main Batman flicks, I was just not in the mood for another new dark one, especially with what happened with Batfleck. Should've just been called the 20 Years Too Late Man.
Robert Pattinson is an ok Batman, but a laughable Bruce Wayne, as it felt like they were way too tryhard on the emo aspect. Pattinson would've been better off as a Red Hood.
Though Paul Dano overacted a bit at times, the Riddler was a pretty cool villain that I wished interacted with Batman more...until the reveal that he's basically a Twitch streamer, as right now, I can't really find that concept scary in media.
Zoe Kravitz is fine as Catwoman on her own, but the romance with her and Batman doesn't work for me, as I found the actors having 0 chemistry with each other.
Michael Giacchino overall did a pretty good job with the score, though some the songs could've been trimmed a bit.
Colin Farell's transformation and acting as the Penguin is pretty cool, but they probably could've just saved time and money getting an actor that looked close enough to him and adding some make up and prosthetics here and there.
The movie felt way too long, as it felt like it could ended at least 2 times before it actually did. Did not need to be almost 3 hours.
Not a bad movie overall, but in addition to my issues with it, after almost 2 decades of having a dark Batman in main Batman flicks, I was just not in the mood for another new dark one, especially with what happened with Batfleck. Should've just been called the 20 Years Too Late Man.
tmihai20
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It's been a while since I saw it. I will mark my opinion with spoiler, although I tried to make it as spoiler free as I can.
Without spoiling the movie too much I can say that (in my opinion) the movie has learned a bit from the Dark Knight trilogy and from the mistakes of the previous movies, but on the other hand it introduced some mistakes of its own. I feel that it was a little too long, some parts could be shortened out. Because it was so long the action felt a little slow. I did not feel that in Blade Runner 2019 (also a long movie). Catwoman was not as double sided as she should have been, she was too helpful towards Batman, she felt more like Batwoman than Catwoman. I think Robert Pattinson is a good Batman. I have not seen or read The Long Halloween, it is a big inspiration for it. We see him as Batman mostly and very little Bruce Wayne (I would love to see more of Bruce even though I understand the direction it goes towards). I loved the Penguin's transformation, I had zero clues that Colin Farrell was him. Also Robert Pattinson showed that he really was Batman, as opposed to Batfleck that thought Batman is just a cartoon and that the part is mostly meh. Batfleck could have been good, but Ben just did not invest enough in it.
It was the perfect Batman experience on the big screen in a long time (I did not see The Dark Knight in the cinema back then). Batman stories are mostly dark and I don't see how a new trilogy could be different, I don't expect Batman to hand out flowers to his villains. It made me want to replay the Batman Arkham games very, very badly. I will definitely see a second and a third, but I want to see it evolve, like Dark Knight did. I also want to see some other characters like Red Hood, Batwoman or maybe Robin. I know this Batman is too young for Robin, but I can dream, right? I think there will be mini-series on HBO Max on some characters like the Penguin, but I just got HBO Max so it is a big win for me.
It was the perfect Batman experience on the big screen in a long time (I did not see The Dark Knight in the cinema back then). Batman stories are mostly dark and I don't see how a new trilogy could be different, I don't expect Batman to hand out flowers to his villains. It made me want to replay the Batman Arkham games very, very badly. I will definitely see a second and a third, but I want to see it evolve, like Dark Knight did. I also want to see some other characters like Red Hood, Batwoman or maybe Robin. I know this Batman is too young for Robin, but I can dream, right? I think there will be mini-series on HBO Max on some characters like the Penguin, but I just got HBO Max so it is a big win for me.
Kermalicious
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Heavy spoiler thoughts below:
On a story level I was both impressed and incredibly underwhelmed by this film. For some context, I tried and failed multiple times to get through the Christian Bale Batman movies, but am a pretty legitimate fan of the comic book character, having read both old and new runs. In my opinion the character is at his best not as a legitimate symbol of justice, but as a broken, traumatized man who is flaws are that much more visible because of his immense wealth. I interpreted the movie not as a fight between good and evil, but instead a as a tragedy of three people who have been hurt by society (SoCiEtY) and are each lashing out in their own way. The scene of Batman labeling Catwoman as a selfish person for being involved in crime and ignoring any possible circumstances that could've put her there was a great way to show how we as viewers are naïve to expect trauma to create a nuanced sense of morality. Catwoman rebels against society by pushing back at expectations of altruism and law abiding, instead focusing all of her efforts on better her and her friend (lover?)'s life, even if it is at the expense of others. Riddler feels outcast and ignored by society, to such a degree that he turns to terrorism as his only remaining outlet to be heard, and the movie makes it clear that he is not an anomaly in this regard. The climax of the movie of the Riddler's plan coming to fruition, and causing ruin to the city shows how Batman has failed, his twisted sense of justice is not what the city needs. The movie was at its best in my opinion, whenever it was developing this tragedy of three, and at its worst when it either threw in unnecessary elements, like the "badass" car chase, or the extensive mob politics. I thought the scene of Batman being reborn in the water and literally carrying the torch to become a symbol of hope instead of fear was incredible, which was then ruined by having a voice over spell this out, and trying to set up a sequel.
Some of the best scenes/ideas in the movie:
-Reintroducing Batman as a detective was not only a welcome nod to the comics, but also a great avenue for him to transition to a figure of servitude to society instead of someone above it trying to keep it in line through fear.
-The Mayor's child is the only character (That I noticed) to interact with both Batman and Bruce Wayne, and was never afraid of him. This made his appearance in the torch scene that much more impactful.
-I enjoyed the horror aspects of the movie, not only because I'm a horror fan but because I also think it was a common link between both the Riddler and Batman, showing that they're more alike than one would think.
Some of the worse scenes/ideas in the movie:
-Many plot contrivances, putting a crime-scene usb drive into a personal computer with internet access, Alfred being completely oblivious to the possibility of a mail bomb despite his involvement in the investigation, etc.
-Romance between Batman and Catwoman was distracting at best
-Very confusing plot that was difficult to follow over the three hour run time
On a technical level, I thought the movie was very well made. A lot of great cinematography and an unbelievably good score. As far as "dark and gritty" movies go, this one was much better exposed than most, although there were still many scenes where I was straining to make out details in the murk. I thought the casting was well done and most of the acting ranged from good to great, barring a few exceptions.
I would give the movie a 6/10, not because the movie is just above average, but because it feels like there's an amazing movie that's being bogged down with terrible scenes, plot points, and conflicting themes at every corner. Part of me suspects there might have been some studio shenanigans, willing to sacrifice the subtler parts of the movie to make it more "franchise" material. Waiting for the Blu-Ray release to see if I can salvage what I loved from this mess of a movie.
On a story level I was both impressed and incredibly underwhelmed by this film. For some context, I tried and failed multiple times to get through the Christian Bale Batman movies, but am a pretty legitimate fan of the comic book character, having read both old and new runs. In my opinion the character is at his best not as a legitimate symbol of justice, but as a broken, traumatized man who is flaws are that much more visible because of his immense wealth. I interpreted the movie not as a fight between good and evil, but instead a as a tragedy of three people who have been hurt by society (SoCiEtY) and are each lashing out in their own way. The scene of Batman labeling Catwoman as a selfish person for being involved in crime and ignoring any possible circumstances that could've put her there was a great way to show how we as viewers are naïve to expect trauma to create a nuanced sense of morality. Catwoman rebels against society by pushing back at expectations of altruism and law abiding, instead focusing all of her efforts on better her and her friend (lover?)'s life, even if it is at the expense of others. Riddler feels outcast and ignored by society, to such a degree that he turns to terrorism as his only remaining outlet to be heard, and the movie makes it clear that he is not an anomaly in this regard. The climax of the movie of the Riddler's plan coming to fruition, and causing ruin to the city shows how Batman has failed, his twisted sense of justice is not what the city needs. The movie was at its best in my opinion, whenever it was developing this tragedy of three, and at its worst when it either threw in unnecessary elements, like the "badass" car chase, or the extensive mob politics. I thought the scene of Batman being reborn in the water and literally carrying the torch to become a symbol of hope instead of fear was incredible, which was then ruined by having a voice over spell this out, and trying to set up a sequel.
Some of the best scenes/ideas in the movie:
-Reintroducing Batman as a detective was not only a welcome nod to the comics, but also a great avenue for him to transition to a figure of servitude to society instead of someone above it trying to keep it in line through fear.
-The Mayor's child is the only character (That I noticed) to interact with both Batman and Bruce Wayne, and was never afraid of him. This made his appearance in the torch scene that much more impactful.
-I enjoyed the horror aspects of the movie, not only because I'm a horror fan but because I also think it was a common link between both the Riddler and Batman, showing that they're more alike than one would think.
Some of the worse scenes/ideas in the movie:
-Many plot contrivances, putting a crime-scene usb drive into a personal computer with internet access, Alfred being completely oblivious to the possibility of a mail bomb despite his involvement in the investigation, etc.
-Romance between Batman and Catwoman was distracting at best
-Very confusing plot that was difficult to follow over the three hour run time
On a technical level, I thought the movie was very well made. A lot of great cinematography and an unbelievably good score. As far as "dark and gritty" movies go, this one was much better exposed than most, although there were still many scenes where I was straining to make out details in the murk. I thought the casting was well done and most of the acting ranged from good to great, barring a few exceptions.
I would give the movie a 6/10, not because the movie is just above average, but because it feels like there's an amazing movie that's being bogged down with terrible scenes, plot points, and conflicting themes at every corner. Part of me suspects there might have been some studio shenanigans, willing to sacrifice the subtler parts of the movie to make it more "franchise" material. Waiting for the Blu-Ray release to see if I can salvage what I loved from this mess of a movie.
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Somehow I survived this slog of a movie - no surprises. A sad, tiring weave with a lame pace and weak script.
Seriously, for the first time since I can remember, I was bored with a Batman movie, I had a constant feeling of watching an unnecessary remake, which I don't know why it was created - because it's another Batman in the style of Nolan, but this time with nothing interesting - or meaningful to offer, boring opponent,, neither good action scenes nor an exciting finale - the third act is a total, absolute mess, which does not want to end.
And the music was hopelessly boring.
4/10
Seriously, I went to the cinema to see TDK for the second time and bought the novelization while waiting for a DVD release, and here I cannot imagine watching it for the second time. And I even rewatch Batman & Robin sometimes. What a waste...
Seriously, for the first time since I can remember, I was bored with a Batman movie, I had a constant feeling of watching an unnecessary remake, which I don't know why it was created - because it's another Batman in the style of Nolan, but this time with nothing interesting - or meaningful to offer, boring opponent,, neither good action scenes nor an exciting finale - the third act is a total, absolute mess, which does not want to end.
And the music was hopelessly boring.
4/10
Seriously, I went to the cinema to see TDK for the second time and bought the novelization while waiting for a DVD release, and here I cannot imagine watching it for the second time. And I even rewatch Batman & Robin sometimes. What a waste...
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I completely agree with you @Gieferg
Spoilers below.
I struggled to describe what I was watching. The color was awful, the presentation was somewhere between the narrows in batman begins, the edginess of what I've seen of the video games, and the badguy designs of batman, batman returns and Batman and robin. For a movie that was supposed to be a detective mystery, there was nothing to solve for the viewer. Nothing to keep me interested. Nothing to make me care about Bruce, Alfred, Gordon, Selina. Action scenes were thematically presented in such a way as to make it almost unwatchable at times, ala Zac Snyder frenetic action scenes. It just felt forced and linear throughout, but without letting the viewer know what is happening without having to basically hit them over the head with a plot point that was never fleshed out enough so it required that level of overtness. I don't mind the Batman design or Pattinson's in costume performance, but everything else about this movie was just tiring and uninspiring. I'd probably be more likely to watch the Burton era and Forever before going back to this. I'm struggling to see a good movie via a fanedit too. Perhaps removing as much of Selina as possible (I just don't care for her character or acting), tightening up the pace, removing the overly psychotic riddler moments (I get he's criminally insane, but he ended not really being so smart and just fully insane), removing pointless moments and story elements (I honestly don't see the point of any of this movie so that would be a stretch). If I ever do it, I'd call it Year Two: The Face of Vengeance. I felt that last reveal from the riddler follower "I am Vengeance" was perhaps the most profound moment for Batman and liked the subsequent realization that his next progression must be to inspire Hope.
Spoilers below.
I struggled to describe what I was watching. The color was awful, the presentation was somewhere between the narrows in batman begins, the edginess of what I've seen of the video games, and the badguy designs of batman, batman returns and Batman and robin. For a movie that was supposed to be a detective mystery, there was nothing to solve for the viewer. Nothing to keep me interested. Nothing to make me care about Bruce, Alfred, Gordon, Selina. Action scenes were thematically presented in such a way as to make it almost unwatchable at times, ala Zac Snyder frenetic action scenes. It just felt forced and linear throughout, but without letting the viewer know what is happening without having to basically hit them over the head with a plot point that was never fleshed out enough so it required that level of overtness. I don't mind the Batman design or Pattinson's in costume performance, but everything else about this movie was just tiring and uninspiring. I'd probably be more likely to watch the Burton era and Forever before going back to this. I'm struggling to see a good movie via a fanedit too. Perhaps removing as much of Selina as possible (I just don't care for her character or acting), tightening up the pace, removing the overly psychotic riddler moments (I get he's criminally insane, but he ended not really being so smart and just fully insane), removing pointless moments and story elements (I honestly don't see the point of any of this movie so that would be a stretch). If I ever do it, I'd call it Year Two: The Face of Vengeance. I felt that last reveal from the riddler follower "I am Vengeance" was perhaps the most profound moment for Batman and liked the subsequent realization that his next progression must be to inspire Hope.
Sloid
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One of the worst big budget blockbusters I've ever seen, and the only movie I have ever walked out on in the theater. It felt like a dollar store mash up of Nolan's Batman and Fincher's Se7en, with the edginess and "realism" pushed to such degrees that it often came off unintentionally comical. Seriously, the hard-boiled self-seriousness was absurd. Lines like "Three years of nights have turned me into a nocturnal animal" had me almost laughing. I left the theater about 45 minutes into the film, but I read many comments saying that people laughed at the scene of Batman interrogating Riddler. As a Batman fan, this was a big blow for me. I'm very disappointed that Affleck's movie was scrapped in favor of this abomination. But I'm doing a fanedit of BvS that will hopefully serve as a consolation prize for those of us who liked his version and disliked this movie.
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To give it some proper criticism, you probably should watch entirety of the movie, but I cant really blame you. In that particular case it can be painful and it really feels like a waste of time when credits starts to roll.
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I want to say that I can't understand hating this, but to be fair there's plenty of beloved movies that I hate. I'm literally the worst person on the site to be comenting on others' opinions.
But damn this movie is good.
But damn this movie is good.
Ender
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I have noticed some people really didn't like this movie, but I'm just glad it didn't turn into another TLJ situation. I think the reason for that is that it's just another version among many rather than the one true continuation of an established classic. It's easy for the haters to just brush off this particular incarnation as being not for them.
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What's wrong with realistic style? Snyder and MCU have the sensational stuff.
Editzilla
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It's old, tired, and overused at this point. Also, do those really have the "sensational" stuff?
Just compare Jack Kirby's design for Steppenwolf to Zaddy's "dahrk, gritty, and grey" design:
I mean, just look at this overdesigned mess, where's the sensationalness of it all? Cause all I see are Bayformers:
Same thing with MCU's Eternals. Yeah, they may be a little colorful, but even then they're bland and dull compared to Kirby's original designs:
Heck, was there any fantastical scenes like this in Zhao's snoozefest of a Snyder-wannabe?
Granted, Batman may not be as "WOW" as Jack Kirby (and that may have been a bit of a tangent), but still. The films so far are so afraid to let loose just the tiniest bit about a guy who dresses up as a Bat, that they'll make is as "reahlistic" as possible despite the fact that a realistic Batman would be stupid. Not to mention refuse to acknoldge any other member of the Batfamily but that's a discussion for another day I think...
You can Batman be dark and serious, but enough of the "mUh reAlIsm" for a comic where a villian is a freaking clay monster that can transform into anything...