Videos importing with wrong length (VEGAS)

[asterixsmeagol]

I'm trying to get my first edit in years started. My goal is to stitch the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Trials and Tribble-ations" into the original series episode "The Trouble with Tribbles." I was able to successfully extract the VOB files from my DVDs, and I converted my 5.1 AC3 files to 6 individual WAVs for each episode. I also extracted the video streams as MPEG files and was able to add all of them into Vegas. All of the audio comes in fine, but for some reason the videos importing with the wrong lengths (but the correct frame rates). The TOS audio are all 50:18:11, but the video is slightly shorter at 50:16:15. The DS9 audio is all 45:27:03, but the video is significantly longer at 47:16:13. Does anybody have an idea what could be causing these discrepancies?

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

can you post the media info for each?

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Sure, do you mean the information from the General tab on the properties window on each one?

Reveal message: TOS video

General
Name: TOS.mpg
Folder: C:\Star Trek\Inputs
Type: MainConcept MPEG-2
Size: 1.92 GB (1,961,955,742 bytes)
Created: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:39:03 PM
Modified: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:40:20 PM
Accessed: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:39:03 PM
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Video: 00:50:19.642, 23.976 fps progressive, 720x480x32, MPEG-2

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: mcplug2.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 14.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mcplug2
Format: MainConcept MPEG-2
Version: Version 14.0 (Build 270) 64-bit
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Reveal message: TOS audio (Center channel but they're all the same)

General
Name: TOS-C.wav
Folder: C:\Star Trek\Inputs
Type: Wave (Microsoft)
Size: 566.53 MB (580,128,812 bytes)
Created: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:56:03 PM
Modified: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:02:03 PM
Accessed: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:56:03 PM
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Audio: 00:50:21.504, 48,000 Hz, 32 Bit (IEEE Float), Mono, Uncompressed

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: wavplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 14.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\wavplug
Format: Wave (Microsoft)
Version: Version 14.0 (Build 270) 64-bit
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Reveal message: DS9 video

General
Name: DS9.mpg
Folder: C:\Star Trek\Inputs
Type: MainConcept MPEG-2
Size: 1.77 GB (1,807,911,332 bytes)
Created: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:42:10 PM
Modified: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:43:12 PM
Accessed: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 9:42:10 PM
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Video: 00:47:19.378, 23.976 fps progressive, 720x480x32, MPEG-2

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: mcplug2.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 14.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mcplug2
Format: MainConcept MPEG-2
Version: Version 14.0 (Build 270) 64-bit
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Reveal message: DS9 audio (Center channel)

General
Name: DS9-C.wav
Folder: C:\Star Trek\Inputs
Type: Wave (Microsoft)
Size: 511.85 MB (524,132,396 bytes)
Created: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:02:45 PM
Modified: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:07:01 PM
Accessed: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:02:45 PM
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Audio: 00:45:29.856, 48,000 Hz, 32 Bit (IEEE Float), Mono, Uncompressed

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: wavplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 14.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\wavplug
Format: Wave (Microsoft)
Version: Version 14.0 (Build 270) 64-bit
Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

 

[addiesin]

If it's the tv show the video file shouldn't be 23.976fps (colloquially called 24, or ntsc film frame rate), it should be 29.97fps (colloquially called 30, or ntsc tv). That may acount for the length discrepancy.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

I did some digging on the 'ol Google and it looks like DS9 was filmed on 24fps 35mm film then transfered to videotape to be edited for TV. Not sure what that means for the source dvds though. Are there signs of 3:2 pull downs? That would be a dead giveaway as to whether the source is natively 29.97 or 23.976.

 

[robulon]

Had a search myself and came across the DS9 Upscale Project which had this interesting piece of info:

Deep Space Nine is a VFR (Variable Frame Rate) show, which means the DVD alternates between playing back at 23.976 fps and 29.97 fps at various points within the episode.

This isn't something I'd heard of before but you could have a Variable Frame Rate MPEG2 stream that Vegas is treating like a Constant Frame Rate file. So when it averages everything out to 23.976 the length of the video is longer than it really should be. You can read more about it here:

Deep Space Nine Upscale Project Update: Variable Frame Rate DVDs Can Burn in Hell - ExtremeTech

It's time for another Deep Space Nine Upscale Project update. I've moved closer to a final workflow for video processing, but have a few snags still to fix. Variable Frame Rate DVDs are basically Satan if your goal is perfect frame delivery.

www.extremetech.com

Sounds like a bit of a nightmare to deal with!

I wouldn't be too concerned about the slight difference in the TOS files. I find WAVs can sometimes come out with a little bit of a length difference compared to the video. Its usually just extra padding on the end. But double check your sync when you marry them up to picture just to be sure.

 

[addiesin]

Whoa why did they do that lol

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Nightmare indeed. I just checked the original vob file that I ripped off the DVD and it's at some crazy number, 28.something, which is probably actually the average of the different segments. I'm not really sure how to fix this. Maybe I'll have to play the whole file and record my screen? That sounds crazy, right? Or is there a good way to produce a constant frame rate file that won't look like crap? I had originally sourced both episodes from DVDs since I'm limited to DVD quality by the DS9 episode, but maybe I should rip my Blu-ray copy of the TOS episode and use that as a base and just accept that lower quality for DS9 scenes?

 

[robulon]

On that site I linked, someone commented about how they fixed the Deep Space Nine frame rate issue using StaxRip with this command:

QTGMC(preset="Very Slow", InputType=0, sourceMatch=3, sharpness=0.2, tr2=2, ediThreads=8) TDecimate(Mode=2, m2PA=true,rate=23.976)

That got them a video with a constant framerate of 23.976. As I don't use StaxRip myself I have literally no idea what I've just typed there But I've seen others on here mention using it. So hopefully someone can help you with that command if you're not familiar with StaxRip either.

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Good news!
I decided to rip by TOS Blu-ray instead of the DVD to have a better quality source for the majority of the screen time. While ripping it I found that the Blu-ray also contains the entire DS9 episode, upscaled (with mediocre success) to 1080p! I was able to rip both using MakeMKV. According to MKVToolNix, both videos are 1920x1080 23.976 fps.

Bad news!
I used gMKVExtractGUI to demux the ripped MKV files, but I can't import the .avi videos into Vegas because they use the VC-1 codec. I assume converting to another format is required, but being a newbie I can't figure out how to do that. I did find this old thread while Googling, but I don't understand it.

 

[addiesin]

I use tsMuxerGUI to demux and usually end up with either ts or m2ts files (which are editable, but are usually h.264 codec). How did you get avi?

Is it because VC-1 needs that or because that's just what gMKVExtractGUI chose? Or something else? I don't think I've run into that codec myself.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Good news!
I decided to rip by TOS Blu-ray instead of the DVD to have a better quality source for the majority of the screen time. While ripping it I found that the Blu-ray also contains the entire DS9 episode, upscaled (with mediocre success) to 1080p! I was able to rip both using MakeMKV. According to MKVToolNix, both videos are 1920x1080 23.976 fps.

Bad news!
I used gMKVExtractGUI to demux the ripped MKV files, but I can't import the .avi videos into Vegas because they use the VC-1 codec. I assume converting to another format is required, but being a newbie I can't figure out how to do that. I did find this old thread while Googling, but I don't understand it.

You can drop the mkv file into avidemux and create a Vegas compliant MP4 file.

Avidemux > drop mkv file in program > audio menu > select audio source > choose best audio option (deselect others) set to acc lav with equivalent bit rate to source > video = copy, container = mp4 > select save

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Thank you for babying me through this

 

[asterixsmeagol]

You can drop the mkv file into avidemux and create a Vegas compliant MP4 file.

Avidemux > drop mkv file in program > audio menu > select audio source > choose best audio option (deselect others) set to acc lav with equivalent bit rate to source > video = copy, container = mp4 > select save

Ok, good luck so far with AVIdemux. I exported the first minute just to make sure it worked, and good thing because using copy on video didn't result in a file that Vegas could open, but switching to MPEG2 (ff) did work. Then I did it again cropping the video to 1440x1080 to get a 4:3 HD image. Converting the whole TOS episode now. The MPEG setting also allow for forcing a frame rate but keeping runtime, so if all goes well tonight I'm going to try forcing the DS9 episode into a constant frame rate to match the TOS episode, and hopefully that fixes the runtime issues I was having.

On audio, do you suggest using this instead of splitting the AC3 5.1 audio into 5 separate WAV files?

 

[asterixsmeagol]

I use tsMuxerGUI to demux and usually end up with either ts or m2ts files (which are editable, but are usually h.264 codec). How did you get avi?

Is it because VC-1 needs that or because that's just what gMKVExtractGUI chose? Or something else? I don't think I've run into that codec myself.

I'm not sure how I ended up with .avi. Typically gMKVExtractGUI demuxes into whatever it thinks is best. h.264 videos end up in .mp4 files, AC3 audio is .ac3 files, but for some reason it decided that VC-1 needed a .avi file. Does Microsoft own the .avi extension? They do own the VC-1 codec I tihnk.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Ok, good luck so far with AVIdemux. I exported the first minute just to make sure it worked, and good thing because using copy on video didn't result in a file that Vegas could open, but switching to MPEG2 (ff) did work. Then I did it again cropping the video to 1440x1080 to get a 4:3 HD image. Converting the whole TOS episode now. The MPEG setting also allow for forcing a frame rate but keeping runtime, so if all goes well tonight I'm going to try forcing the DS9 episode into a constant frame rate to match the TOS episode, and hopefully that fixes the runtime issues I was having.

On audio, do you suggest using this instead of splitting the AC3 5.1 audio into 5 separate WAV files?

If you are transcoding there isn't really a reason to use avidemux. It's best used to change the container. If your source file is from your blu ray and you used make mkv to create it, Vegas will accept a container switch and aac file. I personally don't like to mess with multiple files so I do the recontainer and aac method as long as the aac bit rate can match the source.

Can you share a picture of your sources mediainfo and a screenshot of your avidemux settings?

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Here is the full MediaInfo report on the mkv I ripped off of my Blu-ray of "The Trouble with Tribbles" using MakeMKV before any demuxing or transcoding.

Reveal message: MediaInfo

General
Unique ID : 48310165667065648927520477906006942202 (0x245833104FDD9C3DA3DE1D6A1E17A1FA)
Complete name : C:\Star Trek\Blu-ray inputs\The Trouble with Tribbles Blu-ray.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 6.93 GiB
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 19.6 Mb/s
Movie name : The Trouble with Tribbles
Encoded date : UTC 2022-06-01 22:37:50
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.16.7 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.16.7 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)
Cover : Yes
Attachments : cover.jpg

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate : 13.3 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.267
Stream size : 4.70 GiB (68%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #1
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 367 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 1.55 GiB (22%)
Title : Surround 7.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #2
ID : 3
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 547 MiB (8%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #3
ID : 4
ID in the original source medium : 4353 (0x1101)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 69.7 MiB (1%)
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #4
ID : 5
ID in the original source medium : 4356 (0x1104)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 69.7 MiB (1%)
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Text #1
ID : 6
ID in the original source medium : 4608 (0x1200)
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration : 50 min 26 s
Bit rate : 44.3 kb/s
Count of elements : 1522
Stream size : 16.0 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Text #2
ID : 8
ID in the original source medium : 4612 (0x1204)
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration : 46 min 34 s
Bit rate : 4 886 b/s
Count of elements : 46
Stream size : 1.63 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:02:55.175 : en:Chapter 02
00:13:29.266 : en:Chapter 03
00:26:14.864 : en:Chapter 04
00:38:53.164 : en:Chapter 05
00:49:39.434 : en:Chapter 06
00:50:35.490 : en:Chapter 07
[/spoikler]

Which avidemux settings do you want to see? When I select "copy" I don't see any settings other than the container dropdown, and when I select to reencode there are a ton of different pages of settings.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Here is the full MediaInfo report on the mkv I ripped off of my Blu-ray of "The Trouble with Tribbles" using MakeMKV before any demuxing or transcoding.

Reveal message: MediaInfo

General
Unique ID : 48310165667065648927520477906006942202 (0x245833104FDD9C3DA3DE1D6A1E17A1FA)
Complete name : C:\Star Trek\Blu-ray inputs\The Trouble with Tribbles Blu-ray.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 6.93 GiB
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 19.6 Mb/s
Movie name : The Trouble with Tribbles
Encoded date : UTC 2022-06-01 22:37:50
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.16.7 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.16.7 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)
Cover : Yes
Attachments : cover.jpg

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate : 13.3 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.267
Stream size : 4.70 GiB (68%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #1
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 367 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 1.55 GiB (22%)
Title : Surround 7.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #2
ID : 3
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 547 MiB (8%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #3
ID : 4
ID in the original source medium : 4353 (0x1101)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 69.7 MiB (1%)
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #4
ID : 5
ID in the original source medium : 4356 (0x1104)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 50 min 43 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 69.7 MiB (1%)
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Text #1
ID : 6
ID in the original source medium : 4608 (0x1200)
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration : 50 min 26 s
Bit rate : 44.3 kb/s
Count of elements : 1522
Stream size : 16.0 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Text #2
ID : 8
ID in the original source medium : 4612 (0x1204)
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration : 46 min 34 s
Bit rate : 4 886 b/s
Count of elements : 46
Stream size : 1.63 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:02:55.175 : en:Chapter 02
00:13:29.266 : en:Chapter 03
00:26:14.864 : en:Chapter 04
00:38:53.164 : en:Chapter 05
00:49:39.434 : en:Chapter 06
00:50:35.490 : en:Chapter 07
[/spoikler]

Which avidemux settings do you want to see? When I select "copy" I don't see any settings other than the container dropdown, and when I select to reencode there are a ton of different pages of settings.

I've had this happen one time before with my mission impossible 2 Blu ray. I think the culprit is the vc1 source video. Also intriguing that both are Paramount productions. I'll check that files later and see if that's what is happening here.

 

[asterixsmeagol]

And we're off! I've finally got both the TOS and DS9 episodes converted to VEGAS-compatible .mp4 files at 1440x1080 23.976fps with in-sync 5.1 audio for both!