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The Shining: Redrum by ranger613

ranger613

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Walking Dead finally completed. I have to release these completed edits maybe two at a time weekly. Vacay almost over lol!

Been tinkering with a masterpiece of a film a couple of months ago-- one of my favorite horror movies ever, The Shining. This is actually an older edit I had lying around on my external hard drive that I abandoned because it took so long to render, but am thinking of revisiting it next week.

The documentary "Room 237" (which was ok for the most part) has a segment where a keen observer/?kook played the Shining simultaneously forward and backward. The effect was startling and I googled a few clips-- Jack Torrance (Jack Nicholson) appears to have premonitions of his future in the Overlook during his interview there--that was what got me to try watching this on Premiere Pro.

1365660645-imag3098.jpg

It was a bizzare, hallucinatory experience for the most part--I read a review where they called it "You probably know of some films which haunt you. The Shining Backwards and Forwards not only haunts you, but itself..." (http://www.thestranger.com/suggests/16374920/the-shining-forwards-and-backwards)

http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/01/fantastic-fest-review-the-shining-forwards-and-backwards/
https://kdk12.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F4879566957 http://screencrush.com/shining-forwards-and-backwards-review/
http://adhoc.fm/post/john-fell-ryan-shining/


I thught it was a project with great potential, but not without its problems. This article addresses them, and is what I used to modify my cut:
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/arc...ted-in-reverse-over-the-shining&view=comments

It's a fascinating project, that can be very simple to do, but to get the perfect effect, adjustments to opacity and trimming is needed. I also decided on using the European version (which imho is a superior version of the movie). Its experimental, interesting, and a total mind***k.
hw7ZVnM.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

My original edit was a perfect overlay of the film on each other, but then as some of the articles mention above, while the first half of the film works eerily well with the superimposition, the second half breaks down. This is mainly because by that point the audience is so engrossed in the action that the "fllashbacks" of happier times seem distracting. Plus, having equal opacity blows out the finale.

Since there are no 'rules' on how it's meant to be watched, I reedited this film to 'break down' after the midpoint-- this reflects the perceptive distortion of Torrance-- the overlaid scenes may seem out of order-- brief gaps appear (where the title cards have been deleted), and imagery seems out of place, because you could have sworn those two images did not match up when you saw them an hour ago.

Its a neat little curiosity right now, albeit a disturbing one. Meant to be watched only after the original of course, I feel its a nice way to revisit the movie.
 

TM2YC

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I'd thought about doing a forwards/backwards edit myself (Also after re-viewing the hypnotic 'Room 237', one of the best film Docs ever IMO) but since I only have the cra*ppy European version on Blu-Ray, I hadn't attempted it (My researches suggested the wierd synch-ups only worked with the US cut?).

I'd be interested in seeing this rejigged version of it you are proposing.

You may or may not be interested... but I recently and accidentally synched up the start and end of 'Heaven's Gate' set on 50% transparency with some really cool effects:

 

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Crappy? The European version is soooo much better and creepier! (Also, it's technically the director's cut, although that doesn't really matter at fanedit.org or to me personally since both versions are official.) I agree with Mollo.

Man, those cobwebbed skeletons take me out of the moment. Laughable stuff.
 

ranger613

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TM2YC said:
I'd thought about doing a forwards/backwards edit myself (Also after re-viewing the hypnotic 'Room 237', one of the best film Docs ever IMO) but since I only have the cra*ppy European version on Blu-Ray, I hadn't attempted it (My researches suggested the wierd synch-ups only worked with the US cut?).

I'd be interested in seeing this rejigged version of it you are proposing.

You may or may not be interested... but I recently and accidentally synched up the start and end of 'Heaven's Gate' set on 50% transparency with some really cool effects:

TM2YC, wow the heaven's gate (vastly underrated film) mcut looks really cool--thematically linked. I'd love to see a full cut of that if you're preparing one.

As for the Shining, I actually really prefer the European cut-- if I fanedited the US cut it would result in the European cut :p. Just my opinion tho, but I felt the original dragged a bit, the added scenes really did not do anything (extended tour, Wendy opening cans, the long doctor scene). The ONLY things I wouldv'e kept in though are the Gold Ballroom scene (where Ullman says no alcohol here and Halloran is introduced), and maybe, maybe Danny's "Dann'y not here Mrs Torrance, he can't wake up". That bit was creepy. But otherwise, I feel the European cut has better pacing and is a solid horror film. I think its nearly 30 mins shorter than the original.

Since these forward and backwards are unofficial anyway, I put my own spin on the last 20 mins (where most reviews say the mashup experience fails)

theslime said:
Crappy? The European version is soooo much better and creepier! (Also, it's technically the director's cut, although that doesn't really matter at fanedit.org or to me personally since both versions are official.) I agree with Mollo.

Man, those cobwebbed skeletons take me out of the moment. Laughable stuff.
[MENTION=7760]theslime[/MENTION] , I agree with you. Although I don't hate the US cut, The first version I watched was the European cut because that was all they had internationally (and I loved it). But after coming to the states, I remember watching it on cable and was like, I don't remember this bit when the doctor popped up. All in all, European cut is much superior imho, and that's why I used it for this mashup. You can only sit through so much of a forward-backward before your brain starts crying anyway ;-)

As an aside, the funniest line to me is in the US cut tho, when halloran calls the torrances "unreliable @holes" on the phone. Chuckle
 

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Also, I never realized how creepy the soundtrack to this movie was until listening to it carefully while editing. Many nuances which are chilling. Definitely way ahead of its time, like Carlos' other great Kubrick soundtrack, Clockwork Orange
 

TM2YC

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theslime said:
Crappy? The European version is soooo much better and creepier! (Also, it's technically the director's cut, although that doesn't really matter at fanedit.org or to me personally since both versions are official.) I agree with Mollo.

Man, those cobwebbed skeletons take me out of the moment. Laughable stuff.

Not to derail the thread too much but... most of my life I thought the short cut of The Shining was almost the least of Kubrick's films. I only saw the longer cut a couple of years ago when it was back in cinemas. It all made sense finally and I love that version of the film. The main problems I had were with Jack's character, all those problems are fixed in the longer cut.

The most important difference, regardless of any additional scenes are the titlecards explaining the leaps in time. Without them the film makes no sense, plot wise, character wise or pacing wise. To put it bluntly, in the short cut it's... "Morning?: Jack is fine - Afternoon?: Jack is batshit crazy"... wait what, I erm, when did that happen??!?. In the long cut it's... "Jack is fine - title card saying it's "a month later" - Jack is batshit crazy"... ahhh okay that makes sense.

I can fully understand how somebody who had first seen the long cut could then see the short cut and find it superior. But for me seeing the short cut first, it was missing too much character and plot to be intelligible. Probably I can enjoy the short cut now, with the missing parts safely stored in my memory, to draw upon to fill in the narrative gaps.

btw, I agree the skeleton scene is very odd looking, although perhaps it is supposed to be that way.
 

Dwight Fry

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I watched the short cut first, and it still became my favorite horror film ever. I own both cuts on DVD, but I rarely revisit the long one.
 

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[MENTION=8734]Dwight Fry[/MENTION], same here. For this edit I inserted flashes of the long cut in the reverse stream, eg. A shot of Danny on the bear quilt right after the bear apparition. Things which 'shouldn't belong' in the European cut. The European cut is pretty much intact in this edit except 2 cut scenes--halloran calling the state trooper, halloran driving a rented car in the snow. One added scene, Danny scaring Wendy with the "Danny's not here" line (which I felt really have her a motive to want to take him to a doctor).

Reason I cut the halloran scenes is because thematically the forward-backward effect does not work outside the family, for the most part. The scene of halloran driving is superimposed on jack and Danny's private conversion for example. It's harder to see the parallel, so I removed them and you end up with Jack+ Danny superimposed on Wendy+ Danny.

One of the articles above points this flaw in the fwd-bwrd method regarding outside characters.

It's come together very nicely, I hope it'll be a worthy and curious companion piece to Kubricks masterpiece
 

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[MENTION=24292]TM2YC[/MENTION], I actually saw the short cut first too, then a couple of years later the long cut, but I had the exact opposite experience. I used to love it, and I found it inexplicable why it was seemed so bad the second time, and after this I starting thinking of it as Kubrick's weakest film. It wasn't until later, when I read about the differences, that I realised that my reaction was version-dependent, and once I rewatched the short version I started loving it again.

IMO the absence of title cards only adds to the confusion and claustrophobia and timelessness (for lack of a better word) of the life at the hotel. Also, some of the character-building moments (like the early reveal that Jack hurt Danny) is much better to get later since then we don't judge Jack early on. IMO :)
 

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theslime said:
TM2YC, I actually saw the short cut first too, then a couple of years later the long cut, but I had the exact opposite experience. I used to love it, and I found it inexplicable why it was seemed so bad the second time, and after this I starting thinking of it as Kubrick's weakest film. It wasn't until later, when I read about the differences, that I realised that my reaction was version-dependent, and once I rewatched the short version I started loving it again.

IMO the absence of title cards only adds to the confusion and claustrophobia and timelessness (for lack of a better word) of the life at the hotel. Also, some of the character-building moments (like the early reveal that Jack hurt Danny) is much better to get later since then we don't judge Jack early on. IMO :)

This edit uses the European cut.
Also, I was going to do an audience friendly version and discard some of the more radical post-midpoint changes I had, but then decided this was more of a personal passion project.. I've other wide audience projects. This version's tagline is Disturbing to the Core.. so I didn't cop out and it went from an R to Hard R...
Will be a disclaimer
 

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Creepy. I don't think this was unintentional either...

Didn't he say he'd sell his soul for a drink?

jack+the+devil.jpg
 

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Well, you have at least one skeptic. My wife always give me crap about it - I'm pretty tough on movies. Ranger613 - you appear to have the same movie collection as I do, because every time you mention one you really like I'm sitting here saying "Hey, me too!" The Shining is up there with my favorite thrillers, I like the mind f*%$ type movies. Includes The Ring, Blair Witch Project, etc. I don't need to see tons of blood to be freaked out.

Anyway, in looking at the superimposed images, I'm not seeing the draw of a forward/backward version. Seems like it would be distracting, and take me out of the scenes. There is a quiet, scary feel of isolation throughout the original movie. Plenty of slow moving scenes - but doesn't the superimposition remove that? I tend to be a purist, and resistant to anything but minor fiddling with my favorite movies.

Having said that, I enjoy having my preconceived notions blown up. And I certainly have no reason to doubt your skill based on your edits to date! Can you please send me an example clip to watch when available? Thanks!
 

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Here are some samples from the web (NOTE: I did not make these, although they reflect what the final product is like)


This is a trailer for the same project which others are doing I believe. The superimpositions are not the same as my cut because they use the US Cut, and I use the European cut)

WARNING: Here's a clip of convergence point (European cut)
<< I won't post it on this forum as it is NSFW; please go to Youtube and paste this in the search bar:
"The Shining Backwards and Forwards - Moment of Symetry @1:11" >>

This clip is very similar to my final product except my edit has varying opacities and is in HD
 

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kellenpure said:
Well, you have at least one skeptic. My wife always give me crap about it - I'm pretty tough on movies. Ranger613 - you appear to have the same movie collection as I do, because every time you mention one you really like I'm sitting here saying "Hey, me too!" The Shining is up there with my favorite thrillers, I like the mind f*%$ type movies. Includes The Ring, Blair Witch Project, etc. I don't need to see tons of blood to be freaked out.

Anyway, in looking at the superimposed images, I'm not seeing the draw of a forward/backward version. Seems like it would be distracting, and take me out of the scenes. There is a quiet, scary feel of isolation throughout the original movie. Plenty of slow moving scenes - but doesn't the superimposition remove that? I tend to be a purist, and resistant to anything but minor fiddling with my favorite movies.

Having said that, I enjoy having my preconceived notions blown up. And I certainly have no reason to doubt your skill based on your edits to date! Can you please send me an example clip to watch when available? Thanks!

Hi kellenpure! First off, I appreciate you being hard on edits--that's what helps make better films. It's hard to hear "Your edit sucks!" but I openly invite "Your movie sucks, Because..." . Its honest feedback that initiates discussion and ends with an improved final product.

That said, I completely share your view that great movies should not be tinkered with. The Hobbit was a film that Needed to be... "corrected" ;-). The Shining is a masterpiece, as was Blade Runner, and I would not dream of tinkering with them at all--they are perfect art forms the way they are. They're both among my favorite movies.

Both "Redrum" and "Tears in the Rain" are the antithesis to my own viewpoint though-- I'm not going to apply an annoying and infuriating 'George Lucas' touch on these classics by adding a few frames here and add a flash there to a perfectly good film-- I'm going to Completely alter the films, so much that they cannot in any regard be considered an extension or even an "edit" in the traditional sense. I feel I achieved that to a degree with Tears in the Rain, to the point of it being called 'a nice edit, and a worthy companion piece to the original'. That was the goal: to make a movie that was not a 'replacement' of the original (like the Hobbit is meant to be), but of a completely new take on the original that was able to stand on its own-- something that was worth watching at least once just because of how different the changes were. In No way an improvement of the original, but an offshoot, a spinoff, a companion piece to revisit between your 9th and 10th viewing of the beloved original, just for something different and interesting. :)

Just as Tears provides a new way of looking at Blade Runner, the Shining offers a radical new way of looking at Stanley Kubrick's amazing film. This is not a replacement, in fact, you can't watch this without watching the original first. Once you've experienced the creepiness and freakouts of the original, this edit is a post-script which shows you just how deep that creepiness can go. I would never have cared for a forward-backward edit at all had I not noticed the remarkable coincidences that occured (at least until the midpoint) of overlaying the film on itself. It was interesting to see how the visuals were eerily symmetrical in the film--
Jack saying "That won't happen to me" while we see a foreshadowing of him hunting Danny in the maze with an axe, Jack commenting "Perfect for a child" on Danny's room during the tour while we see the shade of Danny jumping into a storage cabinet to hide. There's oodles written out there about how all this is just a coincidence and the Shining was never meant to be watched this way, and I totally agree with them, but I just wanted to create this edit as a showcase of how (unintentionally or not) deeply unsettling the film itself was. It has been called a film "which haunts itself", and this cut demonstrates that notion literally.

I do not take credit for this idea--I saw it on the documentary Room 237 where Shining fanatics discuss the film's many bizarre aspects obsessively, and though totally unconvinced by the random and kooky observations the commentator was making on the 'forward-backward' experience, I put my own spin on it and am happy with the results. Post midpoint, the "backward" stream subtly breaks down as Jack becomes more and more unhinged. You will see flashes of the US cut (scenes which were not in the "forward" narrative you had been just watching, and so on).

All in all, mandatory viewing? Definitely not. Worth a look? Maybe. Curiosity? Without a doubt.
Made with the intent of enhancing the creep factor, I think this edit may only appeal to hardcore fans of the Shining who may be tempted to give it a whirl. It's an exercise in creating something totally different for me, an experimental effort which no one may see, but it will lurk around waiting, nevertheless ;-)

Cheers my friend
Kris
 

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Original runtime: 144 min
New runtime: 113 min (I rendered in NTSC so it comes out as 119 min-- not 100% sure how this framerate conversion works)

COMPLETE CUTLIST:

Kubrick's Cuts to the US Version to create the 'European Cut' (From IMDB's Alternate Versions)--
When released theatrically in the United States, the film ran approx. 146 minutes. However, as explained above, three weeks into its release, Kubrick cut the 2 minute coda from the end of the film, reducing its length to 144 minutes. After meeting with poor reviews and erratic box office, Kubrick decided to further edit the film for its theatrical release outside the US. He cut approximately 31 minutes of footage, reducing the length to 113 minutes. The 144 minute 'US version' is often erroneously called the Director's Cut when in fact director Kubrick regarded the 113 minute version as the superior cut of the film. When the film was released on home video in the US, Kubrick endorsed the shorter version of the film as the 'official' version. Nevertheless, the longer version is the version now most commonly available. The following is a list of all the scenes or parts of scenes not present in the shorter 'European version':


- Jack is introduced to Bill Watson, and Ullman tells Watson that Jack used to work as a schoolteacher. Jack says he became a writer because he needed a change in his life.
- When Danny first 'sees' the Grady twins in his bathroom at home, he blacks out. When he awakes, he is being examined by a doctor. This entire examination scene, and the subsequent conversations were all cut.
-During their tour of the Overlook, Jack and Wendy are brought into the Colorado Lounge, and Wendy asks if the Indian designs are authentic.
-The beginning of the scene where Ullman shows Jack and Wendy the hotel grounds has been cut.
-Prior to the introduction of Dick Hallorann, Ullman shows off The Gold Room and explains that all liquor is removed during the winter so as to reduce insurance costs. Hallorann is then introduced. Cut
-Some of Danny's conversation with Hallorann has been cut.
-The first few shots of Wendy wheeling the breakfast tray through the corridors have been cut.
-The end of the scene where Wendy brings Jack his breakfast has been cut.
-The scene of Jack throwing the ball against the wall is shorter.
-After Wendy and Danny explore the maze, a sequence has been cut showing Wendy working in the kitchen while a TV announcer talks of a search in the mountains for a missing woman, and a snow-storm that is predicted to be moving in on Colorado.
-Following the scene in which Jack loses his temper with Wendy for interrupting him, the title THURSDAY was deleted.
-After the scene in which Danny is confronted by the Grady twins in the corridor, and they invite him to play with them, a scene has been cut in which Wendy and Danny are watching TV.
-Some dialogue has been cut from the first conversation between Jack and Lloyd.
-After he has returned from examining Room 237, Jack's conversation with Wendy is slightly shorter.
-After the scene between Jack and Grady, a sequence has been cut in which Wendy is seen crying and talking to herself, then hears Danny calling out "red rum" over and over
-A scene has been cut in which Hallorann tries to get through to the Overlook by calling the Ranger station.
-On the plane, Hallorann asks a stewardess what time they are due to land in Denver and she tells him at 8.20.
-Hallorann's plane lands at the airport and he calls Larry Durkin, a garage owner, to rent a Sno-cat so as to get up to the Overlook
-The beginning of the scene in which Wendy finds Jack's type-written pages has been cut.
-In the final scene, when Jack is pursuing Danny through the maze and Wendy is being confronted by some of the Overlook spooks, a short scene where she encounters a group of skeletons sitting at a table with a champagne bottle and glasses has been cut.

The following changes were made to this European cut to make this 'Redrum' fanedit:
-3 title cards before start of film , "scored" with Danny's tricycle ride sound
- The European cut was used. The film was overlaid on itself with opacity ~50% to play the film simultaneously both forward and backward. However, the audio used is only "forward" to give the forward flow dominance.
-In the backward flow, the title cards have been removed and gaps replaced with slowed continuations of previous scenes
-In forward stream, Haloran's call to ranger cut, although this scene is seen in backward stream
-In the forward stream, Haloran on the plane in played in reverse
-Danny's "redrum cries" and Wendy trying to wake him up is reinserted in this edit (from US cut)--sequence starts in reverse stream but reverts to forward stream midway as audio syncs up.
-Gold ballroom, "backward stream" shots of Jack/Lloyd first encounter trimmed and replaced with alternate thematically linked footage
-The bright early scenes in the backwards stream which overlie the maze chase is cut, leaving a standalone forward stream-- so you're essentially watching the movie proper for the maze sequence. I found experimenting with this interesting because previously, if you didn't enjoy the forward stream, you could "escape" into the unique looking reverse stream. Suddenly removing this outlet makes it feel like you're deprived of escape and being "forced" to watch the maze hunt. (Maybe I was just up too late?)
- Brief flashes of jack interview and family drive inserted into backward stream prior to end credits
-Made final shot a bit more ambiguous
 

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Mine eyes are opened. Your Blade Runner edit is a similar thing, a complete rework rather than edit, and I am very interested in seeing it. I will check this out too. Thanks for the explanation!
 

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all sounds interesting and confusing> Seeing a sample clip would make more sense.
 

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jswert123456 said:
all sounds interesting and confusing> Seeing a sample clip would make more sense.
Here are some samples from the web (NOTE: I did not make these, although they reflect what the final product is like)


This is a trailer for the same project which others are doing I believe. The superimpositions are not the same as my cut because they use the US Cut, and I use the European cut)

WARNING: Here's a clip of convergence point (European cut)
<< I won't post it on this forum as it is NSFW; please go to Youtube and paste this in the search bar:
"The Shining Backwards and Forwards - Moment of Symetry @1:11" >>
 

ranger613

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jswert123456 said:
i saw a full version on youtube. i guess ill wait and see.

Here is a short clip , sorry for the poor quality:
 
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