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The Shining (1980) The Versions: A breakdown

Mollo

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The Shining (The Versions) 142 min American cut - 119 min European version

I can easily see why Kubrick would prefer the shorter European cut of 'The Shining'. That said it is great to see a longer version.

The extra material included in the American cut are mainly bridging scenes and expository scenes. There are also a few extra moments within scenes that are cut from the European version.

The first is a scene with Wendy talking to a female Doctor about the fact that Jack has indeed hurt Danny by dislocating his arm in a drunken rage. This episode is explained later by Jack to the 'imaginary' barman in the ballroom, so the scene is redundant.

An other is an extension of a scene where Jack explains to Wendy that he had a strong sense of déjà vu when he first arrived at the hotel. This moment also crosses the camera line, as the first part is shown in the reflection of a mirror. By cutting the end of the scene the transition to the next one is crisper and tighter.

The cook's part played by Scatman Crothers, is larger in the American cut and shows more of the stages of his progress in reaching the hotel. One scene with him talking to a garage owner from the Airport on the telephone feels very unnecessary and I can see why it was cut.

One expository scene has Wendy talking to herself to inform us of her means of escape. It is much better that this scene is cut as it is a theatrical expository device and completely out of keeping with the feel of the movie. Wendy then goes to Danny's room and we are shown that he has regressed into the character of his imaginary friend as he tries to deal with the horrors of the hotel. I think again this scene is not necessary as it labors a point.

Then there is another bridging scene with Wendy and Danny watching a cartoon together, which is only there to explain that she wants to go and talk with Jack. Again removing this moment is a wise one as it keeps things tight and the transition crisp.

A couple of extra lines by Jack and the 'imaginary' barman are in the longer cut. "Women, can't live with them...." The removal of these lines helps with the focus and directness of the scene.

There is an extra scene with Danny saying "Redrum". This takes place before the classic scene with Danny again saying "Redrum"....so I am sure it was removed to make the impact of the later scene greater.

In the European version, when Wendy finally see visions within the hotel, they are brief and shocking. The American version has more shots of Wendy witnessing these horrors. Suddenly, the reception area is dressed in cobwebs and skeletons are siting on sofas. This tacky moment made me laugh and I am sure it was the first thing Kubrick removed from the European cut so as not to get the same reaction.

The European version is more polished than the American. The shorter cut is also more subtle and challenging. I agree with all of the cuts that Kubrick made for the European version and I can understand why he felt it was much better because it is. I personally feel the American version is not the finished movie and the European most certainly is.
 

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I disagree on some of your points. Having grown up on the european version and only just recently seen the US cut, I was amazed seeing some - to me - very important scenes. The background story of Jack having hurt Danny felt very important. I could absolutely feel very different towards Jack throughout the film. In the european version he simply goes nuts because the hotel drives him mad, while in the US cut he is tormented and agonizes over the transition himself. IMO, of course.
 

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Cactus said:
I disagree on some of your points. Having grown up on the european version and only just recently seen the US cut, I was amazed seeing some - to me - very important scenes. The background story of Jack having hurt Danny felt very important.

I understand that the expanded back-story of Jack's abusive behavior at the beginning is interesting yet it is not "very important" because Kubrick would not have cut it otherwise.

"The back ground story of Jack having hurt Danny felt very important"... Do we really need this information twice? It is better we are unsure of Jack's character and the shock that comes later that he did, in fact attack his son in a drunken rage becomes more powerful.

Sure, it is exciting to see a longer version but Kubrick, himself said, the European cut was his preferred version.

Here is the complete British Film Institute list of the differences between the versions.

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/films/cutshining.htm
 

Cactus

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I remember reading that Stephen King disliked Kubricks movie partly because Jack goes crazy too fast. I used to agree somewhat, but that was absolutely lessened with the US cut for me. Not that I'm recommending King's TV version, mind you. :)
 

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I suppose the first insult to the Stephen King ego was the outright rejection of his script. Kubrick realized that he needed more of a scholarly knowledge of literary horror and so used Diane Johnson to collaborate on a new script.

The film differs from the novel significantly. This upset Stephen King, who wanted the script to be more faithful to his populist novel. The main differences are with the personality of Jack Torrance.

King, trying to make his mark on a film that had effectively ostracized him, attempted to talk Stanley Kubrick out of casting Jack Nicholson and casting Jon Voight instead. Kubrick ignored these casting suggestions.

Most of the film's most iconic scenes, such as the creepy twin sisters and the blood exploding from the elevator are Kubrick's own. Also Wendy discovering the "novel" in Jack's typewriter is Kubrick's. Similarly, much of the film's most memorable lines of dialogue ("Words of wisdom" and "Here's Johnny!") are unique to the film.

King was disappointed with the film and expressed his dissatisfaction to the media. He said "The real problem is that Kubrick set out to make a horror picture with no apparent understanding of the genre." A pretty ill-informed judgement in my view.

King took the chance with the 1997 TV movie adaptation of "The Shining" to try and take on Kubrick at his own game. Stephen King wrote and produced. He failed miserably and this only heightened King's resentment of Kubrick.
 

Remixed by Jorge

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Mollo said:
He failed miserably and this only heightened King's resentment of Kubrick.
I hear that. People are funny that way. Specially when it comes to ego and resentment.
I just hope Kubrick and King can make up.
 

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killbillme said:
People are funny that way. Specially when it comes to ego and resentment. I just hope Kubrick and King can make up.

That would be hard as Kubrick is dead ....yes, I agree inflated ego and resentment can be horrible traits.
 

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oddly enough, i'm a huge fan of this movie... but this is the first i've even heard about 2 different versions of the film.... i can see why some of the things were cut.... but there are a few things i would have kept in there..... perhaps some compromise would be good.... dunno..... i'd like to watch the european cut sometime though..... the shining and the haunting (1963) are my two favorite horror films ever :)
 

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lewis886 said:
i'm a huge fan of this movie... but this is the first i've even heard about 2 different versions of the film

Yes, me too and it was news to me that there were two different versions.

Listening to the special edition American NTSC commentary by Garrett Brown, the inventor of the Steadicam, nothing is mentioned about another cut.

During the commentary Garrett Brown does remark at the shots of the skeletons in the cobweb covered hotel reception. He said "I don't know who's idea it was to have these shots here. They are very disappointing and I wonder why they are there."
 

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There's definetely two versions, and the european shorter cuts only exists by obligation, ie when they issue it in europe in foreign countries, all they have is the original short version dubbed track in foreign languages, so they are forced to use it by default. If not, let me assure you, the american versions would be the only one available worldwide.

from imdb

The full-length version runs approx. 145 minutes and is the U.S. theatrical version, available in the USA on VHS, DVD and laserdisc. All the other versions, however, run just under two hours (115), omitting about half an hour of footage. This is because Kubrick cut some scenes from his film, which he thought were unnecessary. British television network ITV screened the full US version of The Shining during the late eighties, as did More4 more recently in July 2008. The following is a list of all the scenes or parts of scenes not present in the other versions of The Shining.
The last line of dialogue (spoken by Wendy) in the kitchen scene, the subsequent dissolve, Bill Watson's arrival to the interview (and all his dialogue), Jack recounting his previous jobs and the reason for shutting the Overlook in winter.
After Danny's vision in the bathroom, the entire Doctor scene is removed (making Anne Jackson's name in the opening credits a mystery), where Danny discusses "Tony" and we discover Jack dislocated Danny's shoulder in a moment of drunken rage, and joined the wagon afterwards.
The scenes where Mr. Ullman shows Jack and Wendy around the Colorado Lounge, when they walk outside the maze and when Dick Halloran shows Wendy and Danny round the kitchens have been shortened, but not removed completely.
The scene where Jack, Wendy and the hotel managers first enter the Gold Room and are introduced to Dick Halloran, the subsequent dissolve, a line of dialogue between Halloran and Wendy about the woman's name.
The first shot of Wendy wheeling the breakfast trolley.
The second half of Wendy and Jack's breakfast conversation where Jack says how he feels he's been to the Overlook before.
A shot from behind of Jack throwing the ball against the wall, the subsequent dissolve and the line "Loser has to keep America clean, how's that?" (8 seconds in all!)
Wendy seeing the news and weather report on television in the kitchen while preparing food.
The title card "Thursday" and part of Wendy and Danny's snowfight.
Wendy and Danny watching television in the Colorado Lounge.
Some lines of dialogue between Jack and Lloyd during their first encounter.
A line of dialogue spoken by Jack after the encounter with the old woman, referring to Danny's vision of the blood.
The scene where Wendy goes over her plan to leave the Overlook verbally in their room and Danny gets possessed (?) by "Tony", sitting bolt upright in bed.
Halloran's third attempt at trying to contact them via the telephone and County Office.
The 8am title card.
Halloran's question to the stewardess on the plane.
A long shot from behind of Jack at the typewriter.
Halloran's plane touching down and phoning his friend Larry to arrange the rental of a Sno-cat.
The scene where Danny watches Roadrunner (not actually on screen) and Wendy goes to find Jack, taking a baseball bat, just before she goes to find his manuscript.
Wendy seeing skeletons in the hotel lobby.

You can order the shorter cut here on blu ray

http://www.amazon.fr/Shining-Blu-ray-Ja ... 155&sr=8-4

If the cover is white, it's the shorter cut. If black, it's the USA version which is here

http://www.amazon.com/Shining-Blu-ray-J ... 211&sr=8-1
 

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lewis886 said:
oddly enough, i'm a huge fan of this movie... but this is the first i've even heard about 2 different versions of the film

Same here. :shock:

It's my 2nd fav horror (can you guess which is my 1st? :D ) I am suprised that there is 2 versions, with such a perfectionist like Kubrick (watch the "box doc" & you'll know what I mean) I always got the impression he knew exactly what he wanted. So the idea of two versions being out there is kinda Anti-Kubrick in a way.

On the other hand I'm not completely suprised. I think most people who watch that film for the 1st time get the feeling of "otherness" or events not being fully explained. The film has an air of mystery about it, which I suppose can piss some people off, I on the other hand don't mind it & think it adds to the appeal of the movie. I'd rather make my own mind up (right or wrong) regarding what a film is about than have scenes that try & explain everything to me cause the film makers think the audience is too dumb to work it out for themselves.

So I'm not suprised Kubrick made the cuts he did.

But, I still wanna see the American Cut ASAP. :)

Mollo said:
killbillme said:
People are funny that way. Specially when it comes to ego and resentment. I just hope Kubrick and King can make up.

That would be hard as Kubrick is dead ....

hehehe :-D That would be one serious long distance phone call. :grin:
 

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I am going to do a bit more research into this anomaly but I have a feeling as to why this happened.

This is only my assumption or theory based on the facts I have acquired!

The film had been playing for a week in American cinemas selected by Kubrick. He had second thoughts about the ending and withdrew the film to remove an epilogue, which showed Wendy and Danny in hospital recovering.

During the first weeks of principal photography Kubrick had found himself in a quandary as he was shooting everything. By that I mean, that Kubrick was shooting in sequence everything in realtime. This would have produced a movie of not just 2 hours but 5 months. A re-think was needed and work was done on the script to remove unnecessary sequences and so save the time needed to shoot them. The shoot was a very long one (14 months) and Kubrick kept falling into the trap of being too literal and shooting unnecessary scenes.

By the time the editing process started the amount of footage to sort through was enormous. Millions and Millions of feet. 'The Shining' does hold the Guinness Book record for most takes ever filmed with one set up.

I think somewhere along the line he simply lost focus and presented Warner Bros. with the American version we have today but with the epilogue of Wendy and Danny in hospital. He quickly realized that the epilogue needed to be removed and it was done as per his instructions within the first week of its US run.

Weird reports were coming to Kubrick on a daily, almost hourly basis concerning audience reactions. So when it came the time for a European release, he realized the film needed alterations to lessen the labored points and removed the more obvious shots.

So Kubrick made the shorter cut after some London previews and it went on to play in Europe with great success. He later stated that the shorter version was his preferred cut.

End

The shocker for me is that Kubrick could have left those shots of the Skeletons in any version of 'The Shining' as they are just not up to his standard. All the other changes are academic and up for interpretation. It is still a classic and an amazing one.

'The Stanley Kubrick Archives' does have a few short lines about the changes. It says "The film was previewed before its release in London and cuts of 30 minutes were made that do not effect the story but do alter the rhythm of the film."
 

FatherMerrin

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I just watched the US Version over the weekend. Wow, what a difference a few extra scenes make. Most of the scenes are duplicate scenes which add & do nothing except to slow the film down. But, it's the last 20mins that really suffer. In the European Version once Jack has his little chat in the toilet the film then really goes into overdrive & delivers with a terrific ending the whole film has been building up to. Where as the extra scenes in the US effectively bring the film grinding to a hault with silly scenes with the Cook on the phone or Danny turning into Tony.

Also, the extra scenes with Shelley Duval actually undermine her overal performance (IMO) as some of the most unneccessary scenes have her in it & those scenes feel very uncomfortable. In the European Version you feel she nails every scene & I didn't get that impression from the US Version.
 

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FatherMerrin, what did you thing of the skeletons and cob-webbed reception shots?
 

FatherMerrin

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Mollo said:
FatherMerrin, what did you thing of the skeletons and cob-webbed reception shots?

lol!!! :lol:

Yeah I forgot about them, they sucked big time. :smile:

That bit alone makes the European edit the superior version. 8)

Man that bit was shit. :lol:

Madness & Genius, it's such a thin line. Sadly the US version skipped Madness & went straight to Suck.
 

Mollo

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I agree with both your posts FatherMerrin and think that the shorter European cut is the authoritative version.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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A couple of days late, but it’s been 100 years.

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