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The Red Book of Westmarch, Book III-The Treason of Isengard

kerr

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I'm still using the old Womble (4.04.104) for these edits - I have the newest one as well, and really like it so far, but when I open my LotR projects in it, all the audio I've taken from the soundtracks is completely screwed up and out of sync, so I have to use the older version. Anyway, I've finally managed to sort out all the problems (except that pesky chapter selection bug which was also present on Book II - I have absolutely no idea how to solve that one), so the DVD is finished and in the process of being uploaded.
 

Hal9000

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As far as I know, the newest version.

I use the sound line editor to set points at the lowest end before and after each cut, past the cutoff. Then I add a slight fade in and out, and then manually stretch each audio segment to leave no empty spaces. This seems to work better than anything else I've tried.
Export, make sure there are no bugs at a cut point, and just wonder why there are no Mac apps that can edit mpegs without reencoding.

At any rate, it'll be a happy day when Kerr's complete book cuts sit atop my TV stand.
 

Phod

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Let us know when Book 3 is ready to go and the DLC file has been upated on the Faneditinfo... looking forward to it!!
 

kerr

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Phod said:
Is the final version out yet?
Yep. I don't know if it's up on fanedit.info yet, though.
 

boon23

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no it isn't because no one told me. Will get to it today.
 

kerr

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Thanks, boon. I figured I'd wait with the notification 'til I was done with the list of changes - which is here:

Changes from the first version
- Redone title sequence
- Instead of opening on Aragorn on top of Amon Hen, we open on the Uruk-Hai assaulting Boromir
- Used the theatrical version of Boromir's last battle
- Reinserted Boromir's line "Frodo... Where is Frodo?"
- Cut Boromir's line "Our people... Our people"
- Changed the transition to Boromir's funeral boat from a straight cut to a fade
- Fixed a slight continuity error regarding Gimli's position after the three hunters find Pippin's "Leaf of Lorien"
- Reinserted some more of Aragorn's tracking
- Cut the line "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"
- Recut Merry and Pippin's escape
- Reinserted Treebeard's lines "Your part in this tale is over" etc., to make Pippin's line about returning to the Shire more natural
- Fixed the continuity error regarding Merry's jacket during the entmoot
- Cut the sci-fi animation after Gandalf's "death"
- Cut Gimli's line "You'd find more cheer in a graveyard"
- Cut Gandalf's mumbling after Hama asks for his staff
- Cut Theoden line "Gandalf?" after his "transformation"
- Several small tweaks have been made to the Battle of the Hornburg to improve the flow
- The "dwarf-tossing" scene has been reworked
- Cut Aragorn and co.'s ride through Fangorn, so that we stay with the hobbits' POV longer
- Used the theatrical version of the "Green Dragon" song
- Cut some of Pippin's spasms while holding the Palantir
- Recut the scene in the stables to make the removal of some lines flow better
- Redone end "credits"
- Audio transitions have been improved throughout
 

Captain Khajiit

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kerr said:
- Used the theatrical version of Boromir's last battle

Good! When I watched the theatrical versions again recently, it struck me that this version was more poignant somehow than that of the extended cut.
 

kerr

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A 700 mb XVID of the new version has now also been uploaded.
 

Phod

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Great stuff as usual kerr!

And not to overly bug but... any ETA on Book 4 update? :)

Also on the description pages for your LOTR edits, you mention there are some "major" continuity issues with regards to these edits that were kinda unavoidable.. just wondering what you would consider major as an example?

I think they're awesome :)
 

kerr

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Thanks, Phod! :)

As for the new version of Book IV... I'd say in about two weeks' time, or a month at the latest. I haven't really started to work on the update, but I don't think there's that much to be done, so it shouldn't take too long. Of course, I might discover some new changes I'll want to make, in which case it will take longer. But at the moment I'm only planning to do a handful of minor, simple changes (as well as the usual overhaul of audio transitions).

Now, the continuity issues... There were more of them in the first versions, but there are still quite a few in the updated ones as well, mostly in Book III. The most apparent one is probably Aragorn's torn clothes and the scar on his shoulder in Helm's Deep, which he got after falling down the cliff in the original, but which have no explanation in the edit. Another obvious one is the numerous elves in the background during the Battle of the Hornburg, of course. Gandalf's cloak also mysteriously disappears after the "exorcism" of Theoden. Also, the timeline of the re-edited ent scenes is kinda wonky, since it now appears that they all happen in the course of ~24 hours, which is wrong. There are quite a few others as well, but they're (hopefully) hard to notice, so I'd rather not point them out. Still, there are some almost equally major continuity errors in the original movies as well (some of which I've fixed in these edits).
 

Phod

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eh, I don't consider those too major :)

Thanks for the great work. Keep us posted on 4. Can't wait to have the complete set.
 

buddythegoon

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The most apparent one is probably Aragorn's torn clothes and the scar on his shoulder in Helm's Deep, which he got after falling down the cliff in the original, but which have no explanation in the edit

This is something that is probably very noticeable to you because you've doing nothing but watch and edit these movies for the past year. I took it as dude just being generally ragged and beat up from the road - probably hasn't had a bath and clean clothes since Lorien.

the numerous elves in the background during the Battle of the Hornburg

Is obvious because we watched the original movie. If you step back and pretend you haven't seen PJ's original vision, the elves are enough in the background that they don't necessarily have to be elves - they're wearing helmets that cover the pointy ears after all, and they're generally blue-eyed and pale like the Rohirrim.

Gandalf's cloak also mysteriously disappears after the "exorcism" of Theoden.

Indeed. I've got nothing for that one.

the timeline of the re-edited ent scenes is kinda wonky, since it now appears that they all happen in the course of ~24 hours, which is wrong.

Maybe, but it already happened too quickly in the original and you have actually helped with what I perceived as a continuity issue with the original - i.e. the Ents decide not to go to war, Treebeard takes hobbits to edge of forest, sees busted up trees, yells, and lo and behold there are the Ents again, now ready to fight. If they were all right there overlooking Isengard all along and were supposed to be in a rage over the deforestation, why in the blue #@%$ did they just decide right then and there that they needed to go to war!? Did they follow Treebeard there to make sure the hobbits got out OK?? Did they just need Treebeard to give a yell!? If they lived in that part of the woods and already knew the extent of the damage, why did they decide not to go to war initially?? I know they're magical creatures, but it's been established already that they cannot teleport.

It should tell you something about how much I enjoyed this effort if I'm defending the fan edit to the fan editor. :)
 

kerr

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buddythegoon said:
It should tell you something about how much I enjoyed this effort if I'm defending the fan edit to the fan editor. :)
:D
Glad you were able to overlook the continuity errors. You're probably right about me noticing continuity errors more easily because I've been editing these movies for so long - before I started editing, for example, I never noticed Arwen in the background of Helm's Deep, but now that I watch it I can't not notice her, even though she only appears for a split second or so. I wish I could've fixed that in the edit, but alas. I was able to fix the disappearing barrels in Henneth Annun in Book IV, though - again, an error I never noticed until I started editing the scene.
 

Captain Khajiit

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kerr said:
before I started editing, for example, I never noticed Arwen in the background of Helm's Deep, but now that I watch it I can't not notice her, even though she only appears for a split second or so.

That's a very well known moment. I quite like looking for her among the horses. :smile:

How did you fix the barrels? Did you use After Effects to put them back in?
 

kerr

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Captain Khajiit said:
How did you fix the barrels? Did you use After Effects to put them back in?
Nah, nothing that complicated, fortunately. The barrels are only present in the first half of the scene, which had to be cut anyway. Unfortunately, that meant that I couldn't use the establishing shot for the scene, so the transition from Gollum's "My.... PRECIOUS!" to Faramir entering the room is a bit too sudden. It wouldn't help to just add the barrels, either, since every single detail of the room, including the positions of Frodo and Sam, changes halfway through the scene. Strange stuff... :?
 

jelio

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Hey Kerr
From time to time ive been trying to find a place where i can check up on info about the updated versions of your 6 books.

I think it might be helpful to mention somewhere on the description page of the various books which ones are v1.0 and which are v2.0 (for both the DVD versions and the 700meg versions)

Ive only seen the 700meg versions and im waiting to download and burn the DVD version until you are 100% finished with them.

Maybe you could have a post somewhere summarizing whats available as follows:

Book 1: DVD v2.0 AVI v2.0
Book 2: DVD v2.0 AVI v2.0
Book 3: DVD v1.0 AVI v2.0
Book 4: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0
Book 5: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0
Book 6: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0

Maybe even add an a note or two like: finished Book 1 for good, no plans for v3.0
or maybe a note like: Working on v2.0 of book 4

(Im not sure if my above summary is correct or not thats why im looking for one)

Maybe you could have this info somewhere on the individual pages for the 6 books stating version 1 or 2 because what if i downloaded v1 and didnt even realize there was a newer one available?

Anyways best of luck,

I love your edits and thats why im so looking forward to the final versions on DVD.


-Jelio
 

kerr

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Thanks for the suggestion, Jelio. I understand that all the version history for the six books can be really, really confusing - heck, even I'm slightly confused by it all! Anyway, to summarize the version details, here goes:

Book 1: DVD v2.0 AVI v2.0
Book 2: DVD v2.0 AVI v1.0
Book 3: DVD v2.0 AVI v2.0
Book 4: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0
Book 5: DVD v2.0 AVI v1.0
Book 6: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0

This is actually a simplification, since Books I and II are actually in their third versions. Also, I have no plans of making a v2 of Book VI. So a simpler way might be:

Book 1: DVD Final version AVI Final version
Book 2: DVD Final version AVI v1.0
Book 3: DVD Final version AVI Final version
Book 4: DVD v1.0 AVI v1.0
Book 5: DVD Final version AVI v1.0
Book 6: DVD Final version AVI Final version

Adding this to the fanedit pages would indeed be a good idea, I'll PM boon about it. Anyway, the gist is, the DVDs for Books I, II, III, V and VI are the most up-to-date, and, as far as I know, the final versions. I'm planning to create an updated version of Book IV, but the changes will likely be minor - mostly it's just to make the opening and ending sequences match with the updated design.

Hope this clears it all up somewhat, and I'm glad you enjoy the edits! :)
 

jelio

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Thanks kerr

that was very helpful!

The version history is pretty confusing with out it, but now i know i can download the almost all of the final versions for DVD except for one.

Jelio
 

boon23

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all avi versions on fanedit.info are now the same as the DVD versions.
Thank you, kerr, for uploading them so quickly. :)
So: all versions are final now, except for for book 4 (DVD and avi are the same version though).
 
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