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The Red Book of Westmarch, Book II - The Ring Goes South

kerr

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What is it about? The second of a six-part edit made to bring Peter Jackson's adaptations of "The Lord of the Rings" as close as possible to the original book by J.R.R. Tolkien, this covers the last half of "The Fellowship of the Ring".
Original film name: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
New film name: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings: Book II - The Ring Goes South
Film studio name: New Line Cinema
Edit crew name: kerr
Date original film was released: 2001
Date edit was released: February 2009
Original runtime: 208 minutes
New runtime: 89 minutes
Amount of time cut/added: approx. 120 minutes cut, 1 minute added

Changes:

-New title sequence. Since this is meant to be a separate instalment, not just the missing half of the previous edit, I decided to have company credits and titles for this one as well.
- We fade in on Frodo lying in a bed in Rivendell. He asks why Gandalf didn't meet them, and we flashback to Gandalf riding to Isengard, and thereafter see all the Isengard sequences that were cut from Book I.
- Saruman does not claim that Sauron can't take physical form. In the book, he regained his physical form slightly before the events of the Hobbit (I think). In Tolkien's own words: "The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic."
- Saruman does not mention the Nine having left Minas Morgul. At this point in the story, the Ringwraiths are yesterday's news.
- Saruman is not shown contacting Sauron through the Palantir. As in the book, Saruman is working for himself, and isn't merely a "puppet" of Sauron.
- The brief shot of Saruman in the caverns of Isengard has been cut, since he is at the top of Orthanc in the following scene
- Saruman is not shown breeding Uruk-Hai. In the book, Saruman did undertake various orc-breeding experiments, but these were separate from the Uruk-Hai. Also, it is highly unlikely that orcs of any kind could be bred in the manner shown in the film.
- Back in Rivendell, Gandalf's line "Saruman has crossed orcs with goblin-men." has been cut First, Saruman isn't breeding Uruk-Hai in these edits. Second, the line makes no sense, since "orc" is just another word for "goblin". The line is obviously taken from a mention of "half-orcs and goblin-men" taking part in the Battle of the Hornburg, and it's equally obvious that PJ's interpretation is far from what Tolkien meant.
- Cut Elrond's line "Men are weak." I feel that Elrond is portrayed as too much of a racist, which he absolutely wasn't in the book. There wasn't much I could do about it, but I think removing the one line helps slightly.
- Elrond's flashback to the Battle of the Last Alliance is followed by Isildur being ambushed and killed by orcs, with the narration removed. This seems to be the best place to include the (vital) exposition of how Isildur lost the Ring.
- Cut Elrond's lines "He turned from that path a long time ago... He has chosen exile." As in the book, Aragorn accepts his destiny, and is only waiting for the right time to claim his birthright.
- The Council of Elrond scene has been moved, and now immediately follows the scene with Elrond and Gandalf. I feel that revealing Strider as Isildur's Heir works better this way, especially since I had to cut Arwen's line which originally identified him as the heir.
- Cut Aragorn's line "Sit down, Legolas." As mentioned earlier, Aragorn accepts his role and destiny.
- After the council, we cut to Boromir examining the Shards of Narsil. He does not ask who Aragorn is, since they've already met - He just casts an awkward glance at Aragorn, which hints at the fact that he may not have been entirely sure when earlier stating that "Gondor needs no king." This also brings his character closer to the way he was portrayed in the book, where he accepted Aragorn as the heir of Gondor.
- The scene with Aragorn and Arwen in front of Narsil has been reworked. As Aragorn puts Narsil back on its display, Arwen says "Your time will come", which leads to her Elvish lines ("The Shadow does not yet hold sway" etc.). Thus, Aragorn's reluctance has been removed, without having to cut the all-important line "Your time will come", which (sort of) explains why Aragorn isn't king already.
- Added ",Aragorn" to the end of the subtitle for Arwen's "The Shadow does not hold sway yet" to better match what she is saying.
- Cut the scene at Gilraen's memorial.
- Aragorn does not partake in the hobbits' scuffle with Boromir. I think the scene is better and funnier with just Boromir and the hobbits.
- Saruman is not involved in the Caradhras scene. In the book, the avalance was caused by Caradhras itself.
- The scene with the watcher in the water has been recut to match Tolkien's book - The Doors of Durin open, the watcher immediately attacks, tries and fails to grab Frodo, Legolas fires an arrow at it, and the fellowship retreats into the mines.
- The dead dwarves are not discovered until they reach Balin's tomb.
- The cave troll battle has been shortened. In my opinion, it goes on for far too long, and has some silly moments that should be cut.
- Cut Frodo's faces of pain after being stabbed by the cave troll.
- The moria orcs are not shown climbing up and down pillars. Spider-orc, spider-orc, does whatever a spider-orc can... Eh, no.
- Cut out the scene on the crumbling stair in Moria. Pointless Action-Jackson invention. I did, however, keep Gandalf telling Aragorn to lead the fellowship on, which I thought was an important line to include.
- Used the theatrical version of the fellowship entering Lothlorien, but with the approach to Caras Galadhon from the EE. The alternate EE version has several problems - Gimli's and Legolas' costumes and makeup are different to the ones seen in the rest of the film, and some shots of the fellowship were reused in the mirror of Galadriel. I have no idea why this obviously unfinished scene was put into the EE.
- Galadriel's telepathy with Frodo as they enter Lórien has been cut, to make Lothlórien seem less creepy and more pleasant like in the book.
- Changed the subtitle from "Haldir of Lorien" to Haldir of Lórien", which is the correct spelling.
- The Lothlorien scenes have been slightly recolored to remove some of the excessively blue tint.
- Galadriel's telepathy ("Welcome, Frodo of the Shire... One who has seen THE EYE!") has been cut. Again, to make Lórien and Galadriel less creepy.
- Galadriel does not tell Frodo that Boromir will try to take the Ring. Boromir's fall works better if it seems a bit less inevitable.
- All scenes in Isengard have been cut. As in the book, we do not see Saruman again until the end of Book III.
- Aragorn doesn't tell Galadriel that he would have Arwen take a ship to Valinor. The whole Arwen subplot differs radically from the book, and has thus been removed entirely.
- The Uruk-Hai montage has been cut.
- Aragorn's argument with Boromir has been cut.
- The Eye of Sauron is not seen hovering above Barad-Dur.
- We do not see Sam underwater - it looks too fake.
- The edit ends like the book. Frodo does not meet Aragorn before leaving, and we do not see the attack of the Uruk-Hai, which will serve as an intro for Book III. Some people may disagree with me having cut the last scene between Aragorn and Frodo, and I agree that it is a wonderful scene. It did, however, not take place in the book. Also, the scene leads directly into the Uruk-Hai ambush, which has to take place entirely at the beginning of Book III in order to follow the book - and I really wanted to follow the book's narrative structure as closely as possible. So that's my rationale.
- As Frodo and Sam walk down into Emyn Muil, we fade to a new "credit" sequence: End of Book II.

Intention for this fanedit: To separate Peter Jackson's "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy into six parts that adhere as closely as possible to the six books of J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings". This is done by both restructuring the films to match the narrative structure found in Tolkien's book, and by removing as much as possible of the material that has no basis in Tolkien's vision of Middle-Earth. For Book II, this has meant removing most of Saruman's scenes, altering Aragorn's character so that he accepts his destiny, inserting some flashbacks that were cut from Book I to the Rivendell scenes, trimming some unnecessary action scenes, and altering the ending.

Software used:
- Adobe Premiere Pro CS4
- Adobe After Effects CS4
- Adobe Photoshop CS4
- Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD
- AutoGK

Additional comments: Again, this fanedit primarily intended for fans of Tolkien's work. Its intention is not to improve the films in and of themselves, and viewers unfamiliar with the book will probably be left confused and unsatisfied, and would be better off watching the originals.


Release info:
89 min. PAL XVID
672x288
2.0 stereo, 192 kbps MP3

NTSC Single Layer DVD
192kbps Dolby AC-3 2.0
approx. 89 minutes
4,18 GB
Maybe downloadable from Fanedit.info
 

boon23

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and here is the cover art for the upcoming DVD:
3D_boon23_kerr_lotr_book2.jpg
 

kerr

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Horrorgrind said:
Any word on a DVD release for either of your edits?

I've struggled a bit with converting PAL to NTSC, but I think I've figured it out now - if so, I'll hopefully have Book I done in a week or so. Once I've finished that, Book II shouldn't take too long.
 

Aztek463

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Watch out ADM, you've got some competition for speedy edit releases :p
 

white43

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And another...excellently well done job again Kerr.

Just finished watching and it all works and especially, the sound.

Did you completely replace the soundtrack? As I can see in places where you've edited, yet the score carries on perfectly?

There was one slight plot hole in here - it's where Gandalf and Saruman have their confrontation. We don't see how Saruman gets Gandalf's staff - one second Gandalf drops it and suddenly Saruman has it.

I may have noticed a couple quick edits on Caraphras, presumably where you've cut Saruman. It's only because I know the films quite well though.

I think these are very minor issues in the greater scheme of things. Your start and end credits are a nice touch - and they've already made it feel like it is a six part mini-series!

I look forward to the full DVD's - well worth it for any LOTR fans!
 

jamiemark

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I enjoyed your first LOTR edit, and await DVD versions as well.
 

kerr

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white43 said:
And another...excellently well done job again Kerr.
Once again, thanks for the kind comments!

white43 said:
Did you completely replace the soundtrack? As I can see in places where you've edited, yet the score carries on perfectly?
No, nothing that fancy. I use snippets from the "Complete Recordings" soundtracks, and sync them up as best I can.

white43 said:
There was one slight plot hole in here - it's where Gandalf and Saruman have their confrontation. We don't see how Saruman gets Gandalf's staff - one second Gandalf drops it and suddenly Saruman has it.
Yeah, I know. There's actually two reasons for this. I couldn't find a satisfying way for Saruman to get Gandalf's staff while still removing the rest of their fight because there is such a great difference in the music at the beginning and the end of the fight. I might alter the sequence for the DVD version if I can find a way to either include the shot of Saruman getting the staff, or to not show him holding the staff at all, which would be even more difficult (but truer to the book, where Gandalf had his staff while imprisoned on top of Orthanc).

white43 said:
I may have noticed a couple quick edits on Caraphras, presumably where you've cut Saruman. It's only because I know the films quite well though.
Yeah, I'm not entirely satisfied with the Caradhras sequence either. I might revisit it and see if it can be improved for the DVD.
Aztek463 said:
Watch out ADM, you've got some competition for speedy edit releases :p
Heh, well, I've work simultaneously on all six edits for a long, long time, so they're all in a half-finished state. I've also been accused of having too much time on my hands :p .
 

boon23

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sometimes zooming into scenes can can do a terrific job of showing exactly what you want to and leave out parts you do not want to show.

And spare time: yes, you need way too much of that for this kind of hobby. :)
 

ThrowgnCpr

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boon23 said:
sometimes zooming into scenes can can do a terrific job of showing exactly what you want to and leave out parts you do not want to show.

yes, this really is a great technique, I have used it in a few instances. Note, depending on how much you are zooming, you may notice a decrease in quality. Sometimes using a HD source for these scenes can be a big help.
 

Gieferg

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I've jut watched this.

Just like Book I also here we find some great video and audio editing, best examples of that would be Moria action sequences. Not to repeat everything which I wrote in Book I thread I'll concentrate on problems with this edit (there are very few of them :) ) and those problems concern on storytelling.

First and the biggest one is removal of wizards fight. In my opinion it doesnt work good that way, and it's all Saruman's fault. Let's look how he looks before fight and after - messed up hair, blood on his face and two staffs in his hands, and we have not seen anything happen to him. And I really cant imagine a way to handle it properly, in fact i would just let it stay as it is, or just cut a little bits of it, which i highly recommend to do :)

Second one, minor, is at the end - Frodo is on the top of the hill, and suddenly he is at the river bank with boats. hey, what happened? Where is everybody? Why there is nobody around here? Ok, let's assume they're all searching for Frodo, but, we have not seen it happened. At this moment I dont have any ideas hwat to do with that, but this not looks very good.

But in the end, Book II is also a very interesting watching experience, maybe just a little flawed, but still a great example of what true fanedit should be.

Congratulations Kerr, I can't wait for Book III :)
 

kerr

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Thanks for the comments, Enson!

Enson said:
Second one, minor, is at the end - Frodo is on the top of the hill, and suddenly he is at the river bank with boats. hey, what happened? Where is everybody? Why there is nobody around here? Ok, let's assume they're all searching for Frodo, but, we have not seen it happened. At this moment I dont have any ideas hwat to do with that, but this not looks very good.
Yep, this bothers me as well. I really wish there was a scene where the fellowship goes of searching for Frodo, but sadly, there isn't. However, I figured out a way to make the cut less awkward - I've taken the shot of Sam running through the woods in search of Frodo and placed it between Frodo on the hill and Frodo by the river, which is how it'll be on the DVD. It's still not perfect, but it's better.

As for the wizard fight, yes, I'll redo it for the DVD, but I don't know exactly how yet. I think (and hope) I can find a way to not include the fight while at the same time removing the continuity errors with the staff and Saruman's look, but we'll see. Thanks, btw, to boon for the zooming tip - I haven't tried it out yet, but that just might provide the solution.
Enson said:
Congratulations Kerr, I can't wait for Book III :)
Thanks! Book III is, at the moment, my favorite of the six edits. Although it is a bit rougher around the edges technically (which of course I'll try to smoothen out before release), I'm very pleased with what I've done story-wise - it's a much more radical departure from the original film compared to the first two.
 

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Just finished watching Book II, and I've got to say, I'm really enjoying these edits. As I've said before, the opening and closing title screens really add a lot.

My only complaints have already been mentioned: The wizard fight, the sudden jump from Frodo on the hill to Frodo by the boats. The Carahadras sequence actually worked really well for me, no complaints. The only other moment that caught me off guard was Frodo pulling Sam up from the water. Frodo is really far away from Sam one moment, then the next moment he's hauling him into his boat. Maybe you don't have to cut the Sam underwater moment entirely? Just a thought.

Anyway, I always feel like a jerk pointing out really minor things when the rest of the edit is so great, and it really is great. The cuts are seamless and the whole narrative flows really well, The Gandalf flashback worked perfectly for me. Keep up the good work, I can't wait for Book III and the DVD release for Book I.
 

kerr

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MAllard09 said:
The only other moment that caught me off guard was Frodo pulling Sam up from the water. Frodo is really far away from Sam one moment, then the next moment he's hauling him into his boat. Maybe you don't have to cut the Sam underwater moment entirely? Just a thought.
I agree that the cut is a bit sudden, but I probably won't change it - for me, what was otherwise a great sequence was completely ruined by seeing Sam flail around in CGI water.
MAllard09 said:
Anyway, I always feel like a jerk pointing out really minor things when the rest of the edit is so great, and it really is great.
Heh, don't feel bad - comments like yours are really helpful, as it's hard for me to look at the edits objectively and see what doesn't work that well. So keep 'em coming!

Here's what I'm currently changing for the DVD release of Book II:
- Restored the wizard fight. I couldn't find a decent way to get rid of the continuity errors or shorten it in some other way, so it's back to its original length
- Some further cuts to the cave troll battle, specifically Frodo's expressions of pain after being stabbed by the troll.
- Shot of Sam searching for Frodo placed between Frodo on Amon Hen and Frodo by the river
 

MAllard09

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- Restored the wizard fight. I couldn't find a decent way to get rid of the continuity errors or shorten it in some other way, so it's back to its original length
- Some further cuts to the cave troll battle, specifically Frodo's expressions of pain after being stabbed by the troll.
- Shot of Sam searching for Frodo placed between Frodo on Amon Hen and Frodo by the river
This sounds great! :)
 
H

Haltiamieli

So, the second part... as with the first part, I leave most of the (well earned) praise for others and concentrate on nitpicking and such. :p

In the beginning of this part, the six-part way you chose to tell this story really makes things easier! Cut from Bruinen to Rivendell would feel hasty if there wasn't gap between them. Also, Gandalf's lengthy flashback works much better in the beginning of a "movie" than it would (or does, having seen Sharkey's version) in the midpart section.

You've executed the Saruman flashback admirably well. It is sad that you couldn't find a way to cut the wizard battle in the end (as you said in the preceding post), but some things just cannot be helped. Admittedly this early short-cut version of the battle I saw does have many problems - besides most obvious (blood on Saruman's face and the sudden transportation of Gandalf's staff), the doors of "Palantír room" keep changing from closed to open, and Saruman teleportates from his throne to one of the doorways in the end.
But when Gandalf has been thrown to the roof, I'd think it would be better to start the next scene with Gandalf awakening, not with a tree being cut - for two reasons: this is Gandalf's flashback, so it would be logical to stay with him as much as possible, and besides the destruction scenery seen from the top of Orthanc, with little torch fires far below etc, is quite awesome. It loses some of its power when we've seen a tree falling down already before.
Then there's the scene where we see the preparations of war in the new-delved dungeons. If possible (here as in elsewhere, I can't know how the soundtrack affects possibilities of my proposed cuts), I'd cut the few shots where Saruman himself is briefly seen - as he happens to be on the top of the tower in the beginning of the very next scene, this is a bit confusing. Brace yourself for yet another stupid suggestion: what if a short shot could be added between these two scenes, to establish passage of time and moving from place to place. In the later completely cut off chapter of "The Fighting Uruk-hai", there's in the beginning a short sweeping shot of whole Isengard which I think might do. It would need recoloring to match the nighttime, however.
And again, I'd like this to stay with Gandalf, so maybe Saruman's line "So you have chosen... death." (which is a bit lame anyway) after Gandalf's escape could be cut? And as Gandalf has now escaped and the main point of flashback has been delivered, I would even suggest cutting of the beautiful shot where Gandalf and Gwaihir are flying over sunlit mountains. Of course, as a side-effect this would require a new place to be found for the title of this part - probably the long wide shot of the dale of Rivendell?

Ok, then forward. I always liked the theatrical version of the prologue better - where the disaster of Gladden Fields is a shown as a little shorter montage (the shot in the extended where Isildur puts on the ring looks pretty bluescreenish). But admittedly here it has to be the extended version, which is more clear without the narration. Anyway, this addition works surprisingly well. Maybe the musical theme played when the ring descends to the bottom of the river could be a little less loud? It stands out a bit, coming and going off quite quickly, and the following music being quite different.

The way you moved the Council scene a little earlier and the way it completely altered the meaning and character motivations of the following Narsil scene (with the cuts made there) is one of the ingenious, surprising decisions which really make these edits of yours stand out. I'm hoping there'll be many more in the parts yet to come. :) However, if my computer doesn't fool me, there's one quite loud footstep audible before the scene changes from the Council to Boromir approaching Narsil, when Merry is looking at Pippin.
Also, in the new context of the scene Boromir shocked look at Aragorn after "It's still sharp!" is imo a bit strange - in your cut list you mention that Boromir "casts an awkward glance at Aragorn" here, but (in this one shot) I'd hardly interpret it as such - he just seems quite shocked. In the original context, this is of course the exact moment Boromir starts to grasp who the stranger sitting by might be. I think that the new meaning of this scene wouldn't suffer if this one glance would be cut. So there would be this camera angle in which Boromir exlaims that the sword is still sharp and starts to turn his eyes to Aragorn, (between these is the shot where Boromir is glancing at Aragorn shocked or whatever), then Aragorn would be calmly gazing back, and then the camera would turn back to Boromir commenting it's no more than a broken heirloom and leaving.

Cutting from Aragorn and Arwen's talk on the bridge to Legolas descending stair and then to Aragorn and Elrond on Gilraen's memorial feels somewhat strange, as does the change from the memorial scene to Bilbo and Frodo (all the more because both of the latter ones deal with swords, just two very different ones). But I suppose as you've deliberately put Legolas shot there, that straight transmission from bridge scene to Gilraen's memorial wouldn't work?

On the Caradhras scene Saruman's voice is still quite recognisable, maybe it could be treated somewhat less so? As these voices are apparently made by the mountain, the wind and such forces of nature, it would even be better if they wouldn't be so easily grasped as language and words, spell even. Anyway as the "It's Sarumaaan!!!" obviously had to be cut, the scene might come off as little strange, because the voices aren't explained in any way. It isn't mentioned that Caradhras itself is a bit moody mountain. But I think it might help if Gandalf's incantation would be subtitled: "Sleep Caradhras - be still, lie still, hold your wrath!" (http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm) In that way, the avalanche would be more clearly mountain's answer to Gandalf's appease.

As the scene is cut where the company finds the dwarven corpses, realises that Moria is plagued with orcs and decides to leave, only to be thwarted by the Watcher in the Water, Gandalf's comment after the entrance has collapsed ("We have now but one choice - we have to face the long dark of Moria.") is a bit strange thing to say - obviously the collapse of the entrance means they can't turn back, but they weren't planning to do so either; this is the way they chose.
I don't really think that the following rearrangement of Gandalf's lines would be possible (the sound of Gandalf's voice changes utterly when he passes the camera), but if it would it would be cool:
- There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the earth. Be on your guard. It is four days journey to the other side. (still in the complete darkness and standing) We have to face the long dark of Moria. Let us hope that our presence will go unnoticed. (lighting the staff, starting to move and others following)
Anyway, I'd still suggest cutting the first half of Gandalf's first line. "we have to face the long dark of Moria." is still somewhat awkward, but maybe less so?

In the scene where Gandalf explains the wealth of Moria coming from mithril, I've never really understood the part where Gandalf suddenly lightens up his staff to show the chasm and all of the fellowship look flabbergasted - and all there is is this big dark, deep chasm with some mining equipment hanging. From the context and the way it's presented one would expect the chasm to be full of shining mithril or something, but no. It's just dark. I don't know however if this chasm-showing part could be cut (even if you'd agree with me) as Gandalf is still talking when he starts the light show.

The cave troll scene is very nicely cut together, especially as you wrote that after this version you've trimmed away at least some of Frodo's dozen "Ouch, I feel like I'm gonna vomit" close shots. Is there any left? (I'm not gonna miss them if they're all gonna, but I suppose it might not be possible?)
When in the midst of battle Frodo, Merry and Pippin evade troll's club, there follows a short unclear shot of Merry or Pippin or both fallen to floor, but at first I for some reason thought it was Frodo falling, even though in the preceding shot he was left standing after troll's attack. So that shot might be unnecessary, possibly even misleading?

When the company is fleeing balrog and Gandalf commands Aragorn to lead the group, the corridor is red-lighted as opposed to the grey of the preceding hall. This seems a little sudden. What's more, it feels slightly out of flow that we see Gandalf nearly stopping and watching behind, and in the next shot he's stopping again, with no on-screen moving. Maybe the shot of Boromir running down the corridor steps could be used in between? Cut, of course, before the chasm with stairways is shown.

I suspect this might be one of the things where our opinions just happen to disagree, but I've never liked the way Jackson puts Galadriel talking in Frodo's head with close-up shots of Galadriel's eyes when they arrive at Lórien and again in the end of their arrival audience.

Also I'd cut Celeborn's welcome line to the fellowship, which just feels offbeat: "The enemy knows you've entered here. What hope you had in secrecy is now gone." It doesn't make much sense either (as the first, most urgent comment) - I suspect it was originally meant to refer to the attack of Moria orcs against borders of Lórien, filmed but not used. I think "Eight there are, but nine there were who left Rivendell. Tell me where is Gandalf etc." would be a better start. Not to always nudgenudgewinkwink about the coming fall of Boromir, I might cut also the shot of him after Galadriel's line "...to the ruin of all." Earlier in the scene enough is made of his nervousness when looking in Galadriel's eyes, this feels just unnecessary underlining.

How I wish Jackson would have included unaltered version of picture and sound of Galadriel's temptation to the extras of the DVD, but this not being the case (as far as I remember?) there's not much anyone can do to that...

This is undoubtedly one of the many cases of my overnitpickiness again, but I don't like that strange completely vertical rock wall which is seen in two river shots immediately after company has left Lórien. At first it looks like it would have been carved by humans, but I suppose it isn't so. What ever the case, in this geographical location of Middle-earth I think river bordered by relatively low lands and forests would be more fitting, such like in the next few shots.

I've always thought that Boromir should stay fallen on the ground a little longer, after his fight with Frodo and before his mind clears up. But I don't know if anything could be done for that. I suppose doubled frames would be noticable even in picture where nothing really moves.

It is, as has been noted in comments above, somewhat sudden how Frodo gets to drag Sam to the boat. Though most of the underwater shots really are very bad, I've felt that the one with just Sam's hand and then Frodo's hand coming to grasp his isn't that horrible?

Did you consider using the short shot of Sam and Frodo climbing the eastern bank of Anduin away from their boat before the last Emyn Muil scenes?

That's all I could come up with this time. I'm not sure if there were many helpful observations, feels I just went to even more nitpicky and self-indulgent direction... :p

Sometime next week I hope I have time to think more about the third part and what you've written about it. Nitpicking of course is somewhat harder when there's nothing to see through yet. :smile:
 

TMBTM

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Okay, I've just finished watching book2.
Very good!

The 2 things that felt a bit odd to me were already discussed here: Frodo hill/water cut, and the "Sam rescue" cut.
Whithout the uruk hai attack, we really wonder why Sam is running in the wood like mad man searching for Frodo (and where are the others? etc...)

But I really think you did your best with the footage you have to fit the book, for it is the purpose of this edit. Of course sometimes the pacing can seams a bit bizarre, but Tolkien did not wrote a movie script, he wrote a book! So I understand why Peter Jackson made some changes in his movies, but this Book Edit is very pleasant to watch so far, and is a very good compagnon the originals!

Book1: 5/5
Book2: 4/5

All in all, great job!
 

spelledaren

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Just watched it. There were some issues...

The wizard battle, obviously, but I hear you've changed this back to it's original state. Good, this really didn't work for me. I did like the cut from the palantir conversation straight to the join-Sauron speech.

There was an other comment that it might be best to cut to Gandalf waking up instead of the tree being felled, but I think this works. Feels like a little time passed at least, and the sound wakes him up.

Nice title for book II.

"Back in Rivendell, Gandalf's line "Saruman has crossed orcs with goblin-men." has been cut"

Gandalf moves between shots, and quite a bit too. This could and should be solved.

"Elrond's flashback to the Battle of the Last Alliance is followed by Isildur being ambushed and killed by orcs"

Music shifts rather quickly from one thing to another when the ring is lost in the river. Disturbed me.

"Cut Elrond's lines "He turned from that path a long time ago... He has chosen exile."

You end this cut on "one who could unite them". It feels a little odd that it's left hanging while we go to the council. Sure we get to know who they are talking about soon afterwards, but still felt odd.

"The scene with Aragorn and Arwen in front of Narsil has been reworked."

I didn't like it. Something was missing bewtween the two. Not sure what you could do differently though if you want to remove his reluctance.

"Saruman is not involved in the Caradhras scene"

This scene had wonky music swells and levels for me. Anyone else get this? If it's an actual problem it shouldn't be too tricky to solve.

"The scene with the watcher in the water has been recut to match Tolkien's book"

It's very sudden, everyone is inside except the hobbits, and then they are fleeing into the mine from the monster that didn't get a real "reveal" shot. It works...but felt a little off. As someone else pointed out: it's kinda odd that Gandalf says they have only one choice afterwards.

Moria edits: great! I think every cut made the scenes better, and they were done well.

"We do not see Sam underwater"

Yeah, this is sudden, but we are spared a rather stupid scene, so all good to me.


I know that you are fixing some things for the DVD...and maybe I should see that. Right now I'm not sure if I want to give this 3 or 4 stars. If I wait it'll probably be a 4, right? :p

I like these edits btw. They are daring and smart.
 

TMBTM

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There was an other comment that it might be best to cut to Gandalf waking up instead of the tree being felled, but I think this works. Feels like a little time passed at least, and the sound wakes him up.
I agree. It just feels a little odd to watch just one shot of a tree. Maybe another one can be added, I don't know. But all in all it worked for me.
 
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