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The Red Book of Westmarch, Book I - The Return of the Shadow

Gieferg

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So, I have seen book I and here are my thoughts about it:

- great new opening!
- video editing is great, I didnt spot any flaws.
- audio editing also great and quite impressive in some places (prologue battle, nazguls in prancing pony etc.) only one flaw with dialogue in only one channel which Kerr himself pointed out.
- storytelling - cant say it is improvement over original version, but it plays very well as an alternative take, and fulfill editor's target to be closer to the book. The only one problem is Gollum, about whom we know nothing, but he is still mentioned.

- overall - it makes me looking forward to see rest of the books even more :)

I am watching second one immediately :)
 

kerr

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The DVD version is finished! I haven't gotten around to uploading it yet, but here are the details:

NTSC Single Layer DVD
192kbps Dolby AC-3 2.0 (sorry, no surround sound - and the official 2.0 track only has a 192 bitrate)
approx. 64 minutes
3,18 GB

Changes from the XVID:
- The audio issue has been fixed
- The black riders are not seen until encountered by the hobbits on the road
- The scenes at The Prancing Pony have been recolored, again - I wasn't entirely satisfied with the version seen in the XVID, so I made some subtle improvements
- Some further changes to the elvish subtitles to make it seem less modern - "I'm" --> "I am" etc.
- Audio transitions have been improved throughout

Special features:
- "The Finding of the Ring": A 7-minute short that retells the events of "The Hobbit", featuring footage from the animated "The Hobbit" (1977) and narration from the LotR audio books by Robert Inglis
- "The Prancing Pony" Color Comparison: A side-by-side comparison showing the color change

I'll report back once I've finished uploading!
 

joebshmoe

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i would recommend improving the sound bitrate here. it is very likely that AC3 at 192kbps encoded back to AC3 at 192kbps will not sound good occasionally...

i would recommend 384kbps with AC3 for 2.0 sources and 448 for 5.1 sources.

your limit with AC3 is 448 kbps on DVD and of course you have room here. with audio, a little goes a long way and i would guess increasing the audio bitrate is ALWAYS preferable to 250 more kbps of video.

also, have you considered doing a fake 5.1 mix?


...just suggestions - i am going to enjoy this either way!

those extras sound fun :)
 

boon23

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from my experience 192kbps is just fine for 2.0 and it's official standard.
384kbps is still good but low and 448kbps is standard for 5.1
 

white43

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kerr said:
Special features:
- "The Finding of the Ring": A 7-minute short that retells the events of "The Hobbit", featuring footage from the animated "The Hobbit" (1977) and narration from the LotR audio books by Robert Inglis
- "The Prancing Pony" Color Comparison: A side-by-side comparison showing the color change

I'll report back once I've finished uploading!

I'm liking that alot. This solves that other problem someone mentioned that Gollum is suddenly mentioned when not referred to before...or something like that.
 

JasonN

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joebshmoe said:
also, have you considered doing a fake 5.1 mix?
Please lord, no - I've never encounted a upconverted "stereo-to-5.1" mix that sounded right (they tend to "echo" a lot, particularly people's voices) and I'd gladly watched a good 2.0 stereo mix over a faked 5.1 surround mix.

Definitely looking to the DVD version, kerr. :)
 

Gieferg

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NTSC Single Layer DVD

Ugh...

I was hoping for PAL DVDs, cause I had a plan to try to use some of them in my future LOTR abridged version (which would be released only with your permission as it would use your cuts, otherwise I would keep it for myself), cause I have my EE DVDs in PAL and It looks that it won't happen... But on the other hand, I can always try to convert needed parts back to PAL, and NTSC format is understandable as it is more "user friendly" for world wide audience ;)

I am also waiting for DVD but before that I want to see whole thing (I mean 6 books).
 

joebshmoe

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boon23 said:
from my experience 192kbps is just fine for 2.0 and it's official standard.
384kbps is still good but low and 448kbps is standard for 5.1

depends on what encoder you are using, of course...

a professional AC3 encoder will sound a lot better than aften at 192kbps.

also, i don't understand the phrase "384kbps is still good but low..." ?

i guess the issue to me is "why not make it better?" - you are going to all this trouble to preserve a vision and then it could be substandard unnecessarily.
 

kerr

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i would recommend improving the sound bitrate here. it is very likely that AC3 at 192kbps encoded back to AC3 at 192kbps will not sound good occasionally...

i would recommend 384kbps with AC3 for 2.0 sources and 448 for 5.1 sources.
Darn, I didn't really think of that... I've already uploaded half the files, so it's a bit too late to do that now. I'll keep it in mind for future releases, though.

also, have you considered doing a fake 5.1 mix?
Nah, I won't do that - I hate the sound of fake 5.1.
white43 said:
I'm liking that alot. This solves that other problem someone mentioned that Gollum is suddenly mentioned when not referred to before...or something like that.
Yep. :) I couldn't find another way to fix that problem, and wanted to use the animated films and the audio books to make some kind of extra, so I threw together "The Finding of the Ring". It's a bit of a rush job, but an enjoyable little extra nonetheless.

Enson said:
was hoping for PAL DVDs, cause I had a plan to try to use some of them in my future LOTR abridged version (which would be released only with your permission as it would use your cuts, otherwise I would keep it for myself)
By all means, feel free to use my stuff! I've been toying with the idea of an abridged LotR myself, but I'll probably never get around to doing it - six edits is enough, I think :) . So I'll look forward to seeing your edit! I won't upload the edits in PAL, but the original files are PAL, so I guess we could do a trade once all six edits are finished.
 

TMBTM

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I really liked this first book edit. Nice idea, well executed (and the DVD new ideas seems a bit better to me). Bravo.
 

Gieferg

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By all means, feel free to use my stuff!

Thanks :) In fact, your edits have given me some nice ideas, but I must improve my editing skills first (which are not very good yet), by workin' on something easier than LOTR.
 

MAllard09

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This was a fantastic edit. The credits especially made this one stand out to me as creative and original. There were no hard cuts; editing in general was very smooth.

One *very* small thing:

Merry doesn't distract the Black Rider with the bag of vegetables. Both because it's not in the book, and (mostly) because I find it silly.

Not so sure about this one. I personally never found this silly. In fact, it seemed to me that it portrayed Merry as clever by distracting the rider with the bag. Now that that clip is gone, I guess we're supposed to assume that the noise was created by a random something in the woods?

If you're looking to make Merry or Pippin less silly, why not cut Merry saying "I think I've broken something", and holding up the carrot?

Again, otherwise I had absolutely no problems. The Gandalf ride flowed fine to me and I don't see any problems with not including the Gollum bit from the prologue.

Kudos for this great edit I will be watching the second book in the near future!
 

kerr

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Thanks for kind comments, TMBTM and MAllard09! :)

MAllard09 said:
Not so sure about this one. I personally never found this silly. In fact, it seemed to me that it portrayed Merry as clever by distracting the rider with the bag. Now that that clip is gone, I guess we're supposed to assume that the noise was created by a random something in the woods?
Yes, it portrays Merry as clever, but I think it also portrays the black rider as incredibly stupid - that's the reason I decided to cut it. The way I see the scene now is that the rider no longer "feels" the Ring's presence when Sam stops Frodo from putting it on, and thus decides to search elsewhere.

MAllard09 said:
If you're looking to make Merry or Pippin less silly, why not cut Merry saying "I think I've broken something", and holding up the carrot?
Well, I know many people find Merry and Pippin to be too silly in the films, but I have a soft spot for their sillyness, and I think the carrot bit is a cute little gag. I can't be certain, of course, but I think it's the kind of humor Professor Tolkien would appreciate.

As for the DVD, I've had some troubles with my internet connection, so the uploading is going slower than anticipated, but it's on the way!
 

TMBTM

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Yes, it portrays Merry as clever, but I think it also portrays the black rider as incredibly stupid - that's the reason I decided to cut it. The way I see the scene now is that the rider no longer "feels" the Ring's presence when Sam stops Frodo from putting it on, and thus decides to search elsewhere.
Yes, I took it like that. It worked for me.
 

MAllard09

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The way I see the scene now is that the rider no longer "feels" the Ring's presence when Sam stops Frodo from putting it on, and thus decides to search elsewhere.
Then is it possible to cut the sound of the bag? We still hear a definite sound and the Rider jerks his head. Maybe I'm not a good judge just because I know the movie so well, but it still plays to me like he hears something (what?) in the woods and jerks his head to see what it is.

Anyway, it's so minor that it really doesn't bother me that much, you just asked us to point out stuff that we felt didn't really work well. Great job on the edit, keep up the good work!
 

kerr

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MAllard09 said:
Then is it possible to cut the sound of the bag?
Ah... You're right, the sound of the bag is a bit of a problem. It's too late to do anything about it for the DVD, though, but thanks for pointing it out!

As for the DVD, I'm still having connection troubles, but it should be up by the weekend at the latest.

Also, I noticed that my edit got mentioned on the front page of fanedit.org - awesome! Thanks a lot to whoever wrote that. :)
 

T-HOPE

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Great! I'm gonna look for the PAL version. I'm interested to see this one :)
 

AvP

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hes not uploading the PAL version.
 

kerr

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AvP said:
hes not uploading the PAL version.
Correct. My upload speed is kinda crappy, so I'll only upload the one version. However, if anyone in Europe wants the plain PAL DVD (no menus or extras) I'll be willing to trade.
 
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