The Last of Us (Spoiler alert)

[DonkeyKonga]

So... after watching the first two episodes I can already tell this show is very good and worthy of the first game, but I can also tell it will need a fanedit to be truly great.

There isnt much i would cut yet but I would definitely cut the introduction with Ellie in chains and the scene with the lighter. Just cut to the outside to shock with a big explosion. I really didnt understand that creative choice there. It feels like the show sometimes doesnt trust its audiences attention span/intellect. Like with them explaining how the spores trigger other infected in the area BEFORE visually showing exactly that happening. Just let us find out visually if you're going to do that anyway lol.

But overall I'm pleased with the show. Pedro Pascal nails his role as Joel.

 

[ArtisDead]

🥰😍🤩 Love this show. I was fanediting it in my head as I watched it.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

🥰😍🤩 Love this show. I was fanediting it in my head as I watched it.

Yeah same! It's great overall.

 

[almightycutie]

I was thinking the same thing about cutting the Ellie scenes and having her first scene when Joel and Tess find her. Much better introduction there.

Only other thing I wanted to do was move the intro credits sequence on the first episode to just after Sarah dies, not only to match the game, but to give a much needed breather and time to process what just happened.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I was thinking the same thing about cutting the Ellie scenes and having her first scene when Joel and Tess find her. Much better introduction there.

Only other thing I wanted to do was move the intro credits sequence on the first episode to just after Sarah dies, not only to match the game, but to give a much needed breather and time to process what just happened.

Oh I agree 100% on the credits.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

I’ve been hesitant to dive into this show. I don’t like zombie stories. I can’t think of a single zombie movie I like. I didn’t like Walking Dead and thought the White Walkers were the absolute worst part of Game of Thrones (tv) and A Song of Ice and Fire (books). Is this show more of the same or is there a new take on it that I might appreciate?

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I’ve been hesitant to dive into this show. I don’t like zombie stories. I can’t think of a single zombie movie I like. I didn’t like Walking Dead and thought the White Walkers were the absolute worst part of Game of Thrones (tv) and A Song of Ice and Fire (books). Is this show more of the same or is there a new take on it that I might appreciate?

Honestly it's more of the same. But it's high quality overall. The main difference is that it's a deceize instead of actual zombies, so it does make more sense in that regard. My favorite zombie show is kingdom on netflix, and I prefer that one to the last of us tbh.

If you want the best possible narrative I recommend just playing the game. The tv show is good, but doesnt come close to the game imo, which is the best apocalyptic story told, like, ever.

 

[Gieferg]

Episode 3 is pointless nonsense... It's like Netflix Witcher all over again.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Episode 3 is pointless nonsense... It's like Netflix Witcher all over again.

I wasnt going to be the first one to post this because people tend to get offended really easily these days, but now that you've kicked the door open I can say that I agree. It was also the turning point where I would recommend the game instead of the show for people who want to experience the story for the first time.

I will definitely be editing this show in the future, and this episode will be cut down by at least 70%. It was very well acted though, but way too sappy for my taste.

 

[futon88]

I'll be the voice of dissent here.

For me, episode three was a masterwork. A strong, strong signal that this is not The Walking Dead, which I appreciate. You could count the beats throughout where the story could have inflected towards TWD but didn't, and I think that was a very deliberate message from the writers. For me, the thing breezed by in an instant, and maybe it's because I'm having some challenges right now, but it hit hard. Not in a bad way. Just. It hit.

Could you edit this episode out and structure a single arc for Joel and Ellie and not lose anything? Yes, absolutely. At at least seven of us should do it. But am I watching this show just for a single arc? No. Drop me into the world and let me buzz in that space for an hour and I'll be happy even if the key story beats are still way off on the horizon.

The alternate ending is also a signal we shouldn't expect this to play out like the game, which is also fine by me. I've played through the first game several times, and it'll still be there when I want it.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Sorry to hear about your challenges, I really hope things look up for you soon.

There are actually a few beefs I have with the episode that don't include the game but purely the storytelling.

The biggest problem I have is with Bill going from mentally unstable prepper in a bunker to loving husband for no reason other than: The plot demands it. That's not how mental instabilty works at all lol. The best scene was easily the scene where they have an argument about nazis. That showed how people sometimes just arent compatible in the long run and it made me excited for how the story would flow towards the narrative that the game presents. ( oh wait, I did mention the game, but I think it's still valid criticism without the game in mind) but then it just became a bit silly and sappy.

Which brings me to a problem with that approach: I cant find a single reason to show this backstory if all they're going to do is just do a recap for Joel anyway by reading a letter. If they had just shown Joel the letter and his reaction and nothing of the backstory of these dead friends, the audience can then decide what these people meant to him. Let your imagination run wild as to how their last days would have been. Which I think hits more.

The show also establishes this love between Bill and Frank through lenghty exposition, but not between Joel and Tess, and certainly not between Bill and Joel. So why is the letter written that way from Bill's perspective to begin with?

Especially the Tess part. Like, the show never established a romantic connection with Joel and Tess like Frank and Bill had. So it just kind of sizzles out. Which brings me to another peeve: Why are we wasting 50 minutes on side characters that Joel saw once in a picnick?

It's terrific acting, top tier. But honestly pretty poorly written. But I can imagine people getting emotional, it all is designed to pluck emotional strings. It just reminded me of an overlong weaker version of the introduction to pixar's up, but without the emotional pay-off. That movie had me legit sobbing. What kind of sicko puts issues like infertility in a childrens movie?! Fucking genius.

 

[futon88]

I agree with almost all of that, but a key piece for me is this: Stories are abstractions. They're boxes. Every story can be summarized with a simple bit of text, and every box can be opened and explored fully. And there can be boxes within boxes. I don't mind if a big HBO production wants to spend 1M dropping down one layer of abstraction and showing us a story in a story. Will I skip it the next time I watch the series? Probably. Because I'll be coming back for the "meat" of the story. The main layer. And by then, my head will be front-loaded with all that's yet to come for Joel and Ellie and I'll want to move along those rails a bit faster.

Regarding Bill's apparent 180: He's been completely alone for years at that point, and he's been in the closet for decades. An unspoken understanding with a complete stranger can break down those walls real fast.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I agree with almost all of that, but a key piece for me is this: Stories are abstractions. They're boxes. Every story can be summarized with a simple bit of text, and every box can be opened and explored fully. And there can be boxes within boxes. I don't mind if a big HBO production wants to spend 1M dropping down one layer of abstraction and showing us a story in a story. Will I skip it the next time I watch the series? Probably. Because I'll be coming back for the "meat" of the story. The main layer. And by then, my head will be front-loaded with all that's yet to come for Joel and Ellie and I'll want to move along those rails a bit faster.

Regarding Bill's apparent 180: He's been completely alone for years at that point, and he's been in the closet for decades. An unspoken understanding with a complete stranger can break down those walls real fast.

I mean I've got a few people in my family with mental illness one of them actually in an asylum because of paranoia, and some of them probably should be but aren't (that was a joke, I love my family). That shit is here to stay lol. If he were just a loner I would 100% agree with the story, but they instead portray him as the classic prepper even going as far as to have one of the classic: theyre all nazis line. Not to mention how happy he seemed with the worlds ending. Paranoia doesn't get cured by having a lover.

 

[futon88]

I suppose I didn't view his character through the lens of mental illness, but I can appreciate that you did. I just saw him as a conservative prepper who's been alone so long he forgot he didn't want to be (alone).

 

[Hymie]

In the game Bill serves as a warning to Joel that he was on a path to become just like him. This presented the same idea but instead showed that people can change and to not forget what is important. Joel has already lost two people he cares about and this is setting up the ending of the story so as to make his decision making all the more impactful. The show doesn't present Tess as some great love to Joel in the same way Frank was to Bill, but I think that's the point. Joel missed his chance for happiness because he closed himself off. Bill has had time to reflect and sees the path Joel is on and knowing he may someday come to see him again, leaves some words of wisdom to help him out. He even says in the letter that they're not friends, but he was just trying to impart some knowledge and probably make peace with his own actions as well. I thought it was a tremendous piece of storytelling and look forward to the next six episodes even moreso knowing we might get something else as good as this.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

In the game Bill serves as a warning to Joel that he was on a path to become just like him. This presented the same idea but instead showed that people can change and to not forget what is important. Joel has already lost two people he cares about and this is setting up the ending of the story so as to make his decision making all the more impactful. The show doesn't present Tess as some great love to Joel in the same way Frank was to Bill, but I think that's the point. Joel missed his chance for happiness because he closed himself off. Bill has had time to reflect and sees the path Joel is on and knowing he may someday come to see him again, leaves some words of wisdom to help him out. He even says in the letter that they're not friends, but he was just trying to impart some knowledge and probably make peace with his own actions as well. I thought it was a tremendous piece of storytelling and look forward to the next six episodes even moreso knowing we might get something else as good as this.

I didnt experience it this way, and honestly still dont. I think having both Tess and Bill tell basically the same thing is a missed opportunity. In the game tess is hopeful and Bill is pessimistic and tells him hes a fool.

I'd MUCH have preferred the love story to be cut down by 20 minutes to have Bill end up bitter and interact with Joel.

It adds almost possibly nothing to the story for me personally. It also detracts from the dread the story should give. A dreadful world with glimmers of instead of vice versa.

 

[Hymie]

I can understand that view even if I disagree with it. Druckman has come to describe the first game as a story about Love, so having this nice look at Bill and Frank was a nice way to portray that in the midst of all the chaos in the world. The second game he describes as a story about Revenge, so I would not expect such an episode in Season 2.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I can understand that view even if I disagree with it. Druckman has come to describe the first game as a story about Love, so having this nice look at Bill and Frank was a nice way to portray that in the midst of all the chaos in the world. The second game he describes as a story about Revenge, so I would not expect such an episode in Season 2.

Oh, same I understand when people enjoyed the third episode. I didnt think it was bad, just a bit too much of a distraction.

On a side not I do not intend to watch season two unless they completely overhaul the games story. I still believe the story for part two essentially boils down to: 'John Wick kills everyone in his tracks to get to the guy that killed his dog, but then stops when he finally gets to the one guy that did kill his dog.' Which will always be dumb to me lol.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

So yeah unfortunately for me the TV show doesnt hold up at all after the first two episodes.

Some truly baffling decisions are made in the fourth and fifth episode, making the show a 7/10 overall. But to be sure I purchased the PS5 remaster to see if I'm not being biased. But after playing for a few hours I can confirm without any bias that the tv show really doesnt even come close to the story presented in the game. It really is a solid 9.5/10 story in the game.

 

[ArtisDead]

I definitely agree with some of the very opinionated opinions being made but don't want to offend. I think we could do without at least one complete story arc already mentioned and at least the cringeworthy moments of Ellie.