The Hobbit or There and Back Again

[ssj]

huzzah! will re-DL the hobbitness.

 

[TV's Frink]

This edit is now listed in the traditionally INFOrmative place; 720 and 1080p versions are both available, all with final changes. The BD will be at least a week away. I keep getting pulled away from doing the commentaries, which require 5 hours of time, and then my upload speeds are glacial so will probably take 4 days of uploading once I have them ready.

But if you don't care about the BD versions, then they are now finally available!

 

[L8wrtr]

there was a slight hiccup in the dlc for Volume 2 @ 720P, it was missing part 52. The DLC has been fixed, but if you pulled the older one and are missing 52, you can PM me for it, or you can use the new DLC in JD and delete everything but part 52 before starting the download.

Sorry about that!

 

[MovieMaven]

Nicely done fanedit, mostly pretty smooth. There was one brief burst of artifacts across the screen, but that may have been a player hiccup on my end. Will have to rewatch and see if it repeats.

No two people's tastes are quite the same, which is why there are so many fanedits. I always find there are things I would have kept that they didn't, and/or cut that they didn't.
- I definitely prefer a "cold open" on "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...", which unfortunately means minimizing screen time for Ian Holm/Old Bilbo and getting rid of Elijah Wood/Frodo altogether. Frodo in particular has no place in this story.
- I miss the flashback to Dale as it was before Smaug, which adds poignancy to the ruins we see in the third film/Volume 2.
- I like that you kept the essentials of the White Council scene, which most faneditors toss. One cannot have too much Christopher Lee, and his playing Saruman as such an arrogant self-righteous ass makes his turn to the bad (in LOTR) understandable.
- Pretty good balance on Goblin Town and the Gollum scenes - wow, Serkis' Gollum was creepy!
- Would have cut the Warg chase even harder, and if there were any reasonable way to get rid of Thorin's suicidal attack, would like to see it done.

- Bree flashback to open Volume 2 doesn't quite seem to work, but I can't put my finger on why. Maybe a trimmed Erebor/Dale flashback could fit in just before it, to further explain who Thorin is, where he came from, and why he has such a hate on against Elves. Including the EE bit about Thranduil getting the chest of jewels slammed shut in his face would go far to explain why he is such an ass, too. (I really prefer book!Thranduil to the mess Jackson made of him, but there's no salvaging him now.)
- Really good job blending theatrical and EE warg/bear chase, and pretty good handling of Beorn overall. I do like the EE "introduction" scene, but it would slow things down too much.
- Is there a way to dispense with the "Galadriel telepathy" and just have Gandalf decide to hare off and investigate when he sees the Eye of Sauron painted/carved on that tree trunk?
- Mirkwood scenes always were confusing, but I can't quite tell where they lost the path. (Not sure it matters, though.)
- Spider battle ends a bit abruptly - one minute there are spiders everywhere, the next they are all dead or fled.
- Legolas doesn't have to be that much of an ass, even though his father is. I wouldn't have kept the rude remarks about Gloin's family.
- Barrel chase still goes on a little too long and has a few too many weird (GoPro?) shots. Good implication that the Elves didn't finish closing the gate before the Orcs jumped them, so the Dwarves just swept on through. But IMHO it could have been cut harder after that point, maybe leaving the implication that Leggy and Tauriel succeed in running the Orcs off and then go tracking them.
- Very good transitions from Bard to Laketown to Erebor - all the essentials, none of the nonsense.
- Smaug scenes very well handled, but I do not think we needed the later flashback to Smaug's taunt about the Arkenstone - it's enough to know that Bilbo now has it and his conscience is troubling him (which comes through clearly in Freeman's performance).
- Near-perfect cutting around Bard vs. Smaug - Bard isn't William Tell, even though Jackson seemed to want him to be a Tell Expy.
- Battle scenes still go on too long, and do we really have to have those stupid were-worms?
- Loved the Beorn mayhem, though!
- No closure on Bolg, Legolas, Tauriel, or even Thranduil - they all just disappear. I don't know if there's a good way to re-edit those problematical scenes.
- Nice closure on the Lonely Mountain quest, making explicit who the next King under the Mountain is (Dain). No closure on Laketown/Dale, but it can be assumed that Bard will formally be crowned some time later.
- Auction scenes well-handled, with one unavoidable place where the scriptwriters slipped up - Lobelia is Mrs. Sackville-Baggins, not Miss. (She was born a Bracegirdle, but most viewers won't know that.)
- Nice transition to the opening of FotR for final scene.

And did I mention that I liked seeing Elrond and Saruman kick Nazgul ass? (In Lee's case it was mostly his stunt double, but still!)

 

[L8wrtr]

Thank you for the review @"MovieMaven"  and glad that overall, you enjoyed it. If you can double-check the possible artifact issue and let me know if it's in the file or was just transitory, I'd really appreciate it, also please let me know if you watched the older/initial release, or the updated 720, or updated 1080. (It's easy to know if it was the initial or the newer 720 because the initial didn't have a fanedit preamble and Gandalf quote).

I'm pretty happy with the structure and don't foresee any major modifications, but since you were so detailed I thought I'd let you know my thoughts on points. Most importantly, as you noted, no two people's tastes are the same, and I believe much of where we differ come down to that point.

Nicely done fanedit, mostly pretty smooth. There was one brief burst of artifacts across the screen, but that may have been a player hiccup on my end. Will have to rewatch and see if it repeats.

No two people's tastes are quite the same, which is why there are so many fanedits. I always find there are things I would have kept that they didn't, and/or cut that they didn't.
- I definitely prefer a "cold open" on "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...", which unfortunately means minimizing screen time for Ian Holm/Old Bilbo and getting rid of Elijah Wood/Frodo altogether. Frodo in particular has no place in this story.

This really is a matter of preference. For myself (and Mrs. L8wrtr who enjoys this edit immensely, it's literally her favorite thing to watch as is) the inclusion of the older Bilbo and Frodo on Bilbo's 111th birthday is a wonderful cross-over with the LotR films, which my edits are intended to maintain continuity. I enjoy the callbacks and flow of it, and by cutting out the major flashback to Erebor and Smaug, it keeps it tight and only a few minutes long before the actual story begins with "in a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit.." I can fully understand how some prefer to minimize that aspect as much as possible, but it really is a 'feel' issue and for myself, this is how I enjoy the story.. it helps with the pacing.. AUJ, or Volume 1 in my case, starts out with a very lazy, idyllic, tranquil world that Bilbo lives in, and this helps lend to the general build up as Bilbo goes from entirely respectable (and stayed) to being a small person in the midst of events much larger grittier, dangerous world where he can still be brave, and nobel and make a difference. That is something that is lessened for me if I cut that out.

- I miss the flashback to Dale as it was before Smaug, which adds poignancy to the ruins we see in the third film/Volume 2.

I'm confused by this, because the only way to keep the flashback to Dale is to keep Ian Holm's recounting of things and not jump straight to "In a hole in the ground there lived.. a Hobbit.."

- I like that you kept the essentials of the White Council scene, which most faneditors toss. One cannot have too much Christopher Lee, and his playing Saruman as such an arrogant self-righteous ass makes his turn to the bad (in LOTR) understandable.
- Pretty good balance on Goblin Town and the Gollum scenes - wow, Serkis' Gollum was creepy!
- Would have cut the Warg chase even harder, and if there were any reasonable way to get rid of Thorin's suicidal attack, would like to see it done.

- Thanks on the White Council, I love this sequence because you really get to see these phenomenal actors re-inhabit their roles, and this time I think their performances are even better due to their familiarity with them, and it is, for me, very interesting to see their internal dynamics playing off each other.. Saruman's self-righteousness as you point out, and Gandalf's frustration that the gas-bag is there and opposing him, compared to Galadriel's calming, diplomatic, authoritative approach smooths things out.. while Elrond avoids taking sides, but points out valid counter-points to Gandalf (compared to Saruman's whinging about yellow teeth and such) you get the feeling that this is a scene played out time and time again whenever the White Council confers and the four actors really do a splendid job. My only cuts here were primarily for continuity, cutting out references to things which I had already removed.
- Thanks again on the Goblin Town and Gollum. Boiled Goblin Town to its barest essentials without making it feel truncated was my goal. It's a shame though because Barry Humphries' performance as the Goblin King was fantastic. I loved that character and wish it had more opportunity, but I feel he makes the absolute most of the moments that I retain. (actually that can be said for many performances that I cut out, particularly Sylvester McCoy. His portrayal of Radagast was superbly delivered, but I'm sorry, I just cannot take that bird shit on his head. I might have been tempted to leave more of his story in had it not been for that revolting and completely unnecessary aspect. Likewise, the Goblin King's scrotum beard was entirely unnecessary, but not quite as revolting/distracting.
- I'm not sure what you're referring to as there is no Warg chase in this edit at all, unless you're referring to when Azog catches up to them after they escape the Goblin tunnels. If that is the case, I toyed with trimming it, but there was no benefit for me, there was literally nothing offensive as they chased them into the trees, so it made no sense to me to trim it. The edit was already clocking in at roughly 2 hours minus credits so I wasn't needing to try and save run-time, and there was no justification for trimming out at 15-30 seconds at best of footage that wasn't really a problem. But again, as you said, everyone has their unique desires in an edit!

- Bree flashback to open Volume 2 doesn't quite seem to work, but I can't put my finger on why. Maybe a trimmed Erebor/Dale flashback could fit in just before it, to further explain who Thorin is, where he came from, and why he has such a hate on against Elves. Including the EE bit about Thranduil getting the chest of jewels slammed shut in his face would go far to explain why he is such an ass, too. (I really prefer book!Thranduil to the mess Jackson made of him, but there's no salvaging him now.)

Volume 2 already clocks in at a little over 3 hours, and narratively, the entire flashback within the flashback is entirely unnecessary from a narrative standpoint as it doesn't present anything that we don't already get later in the film, and in a more natural manner. I think Thorin's explanation as to why he hates Thranduil so completely is pretty clear when he's laying into him about how they turned their backs on the suffering of his people, for me, belaboring that point is beating a dead horse, and adding needless runtime.

- Really good job blending theatrical and EE warg/bear chase, and pretty good handling of Beorn overall. I do like the EE "introduction" scene, but it would slow things down too much.

Thank you. I really hated to lose the introduction sequence and it was one of the last things I pulled. I tried wherever possible to keep the things which were faithful to the book, and they did a pretty good job with this portion (within the constraints of how they get to Beorn's house in the film vs the book). But in the end, narratively it was indulgent, and again keeping an eye on pacing first, and run-time second, it became a necessary casualty in the end

- Is there a way to dispense with the "Galadriel telepathy" and just have Gandalf decide to hare off and investigate when he sees the Eye of Sauron painted/carved on that tree trunk?
- Mirkwood scenes always were confusing, but I can't quite tell where they lost the path. (Not sure it matters, though.)
- Spider battle ends a bit abruptly - one minute there are spiders everywhere, the next they are all dead or fled.
- Legolas doesn't have to be that much of an ass, even though his father is. I wouldn't have kept the rude remarks about Gloin's family.

- To answer your question, yes there is a way, I actually created a book cut of this that I'm not releasing in which I did cut her telepathy of communicating with Gandalf, but I didn't care for the flow, you have to make some harsh cuts to make it work, and it does 'work' but just feels more edited to me. Also, particularly in a version where the White Council is maintained it doesn't feel necessary to cut out that segment. 
- I don't think even in the theatrical or EE it is clear where they go astray! In mine I try to imply that it's immediately after they cross the river and Thorin shoots at the white Stagg. 
- Spider Battle ends pretty much exactly as it does in the theatrical. I cut; 1) Ripping out the spider's legs... just gross.. 2) Bilbo's rage-kill of the strange white insect over the ring.. outside of that, I include as much of the fighting as possible up to getting caught. There is a 2nd wave of fighting that happens where Kili is in danger and Tauriel fights them off and rescues him that I cut, but that's after Legolas shows up killing the last of the few that there are.
- Legolas the dick. I can see the argument against.. but I don't think it's too bad, and I always get a kick out the call-forward to Legolas working with Gloin's wee-lad.. Gimli .. is it necessary? No.. but it makes me chuckle.. so editor's indulgence

- Barrel chase still goes on a little too long and has a few too many weird (GoPro?) shots. Good implication that the Elves didn't finish closing the gate before the Orcs jumped them, so the Dwarves just swept on through. But IMHO it could have been cut harder after that point, maybe leaving the implication that Leggy and Tauriel succeed in running the Orcs off and then go tracking them.
- Very good transitions from Bard to Laketown to Erebor - all the essentials, none of the nonsense.

- Thanks on the Barrels overall. I tried a shorter version and didn't like it, felt rushed/artificially truncated from a pacing standpoint. When placing action beats there is definitely a natural and unnatural way to unfold. Now you can cut out the barrel chase entirely, as book-cuts do, and I think that it flows well because the escape itself is the action beat, but in keeping it as a chase (which is necessary for how I play out the narrative, particularly with Legolas and Tauriel tracking the Orcs) I have to keep it an appropriately timed beat and for me it plays nicely. Again. YMMV
- Thanks on the Laketown sequence.. that sequence saw several iterations when editing this. Initial cuts went too deep, and it didn't really start working to satisfaction until I added some elements back in. Again the issue of pacing really played in here.. the original structure worked narratively, but pacing-wise was too short and felt like beats were missing. Once I filled some things back in the pacing felt right, and some character aspects were also solidified. 

- Smaug scenes very well handled, but I do not think we needed the later flashback to Smaug's taunt about the Arkenstone - it's enough to know that Bilbo now has it and his conscience is troubling him (which comes through clearly in Freeman's performance).
- Near-perfect cutting around Bard vs. Smaug - Bard isn't William Tell, even though Jackson seemed to want him to be a Tell Expy.
- Battle scenes still go on too long, and do we really have to have those stupid were-worms?
- Loved the Beorn mayhem, though!

- Interesting point about Smaug's flashback. You're not the first to point it out. I have zero problems with it and like it where it is, but it is one piece that if I ever do another revision, would toy with cutting it, but it doesn't bother me
- It's kind of impossible to have Azog's army arrive without the stupid were-worms, so I do think they are necessary. Again from a pacing standpoint, I don't feel comfortable cutting the battle sequence any shorter without it just feeling like it's token action.. I tried to cut everything down so that it held a narrative flow.. could I have cut more? Yes (and initially did), but what was left again felt rushed to me.. like just a greatest hits of ONLY the narrative plot points without much bridging material. One of my primary objectives was to create a new film that didn't feel like a fanedit.. a properly edited film has a way in which the scenes flow.. a rhythm of story-telling and for me, when I cut the action any deeper, it felt edited. I could have cut more, but i wouldn't enjoy it.

- No closure on Bolg, Legolas, Tauriel, or even Thranduil - they all just disappear. I don't know if there's a good way to re-edit those problematical scenes.

In short, you're right, and there isn't a better solution imo   not with how I structured it at least. They are all secondary characters however and their stories are not critical to the one being told, there are other secondary characters who's fates are left unknown, and that's fine, so I think this is okay (even if admittedly not ideal). We know where Legolas ends up, and his 'fate' was never a concern for me. Bolg.. yeah, that is unfortunate, but having him slink off after Azog and the army is defeated is an acceptable assumption for me.. and far better than including how he's dispatched.. that's a lesser of two evils.
The most painful for me though was Tauriel. There is no way around the fact that she's robbed of a satisfying ending, particularly for me in how I feel her character is strengthened in this cut in terms of being a bad-ass woman of action and conviction without the baggage of a love story, but her conclusion is completely cemented in her love for Kili, so there are no options available to me for giving her a more satisfying conclusion other than to say she returns to the Elvin Kingdom with a little more of Thranduil's respect.

- Nice closure on the Lonely Mountain quest, making explicit who the next King under the Mountain is (Dain). No closure on Laketown/Dale, but it can be assumed that Bard will formally be crowned some time later.
- Auction scenes well-handled, with one unavoidable place where the scriptwriters slipped up - Lobelia is Mrs. Sackville-Baggins, not Miss. (She was born a Bracegirdle, but most viewers won't know that.)
- Nice transition to the opening of FotR for final scene.

And did I mention that I liked seeing Elrond and Saruman kick Nazgul ass? (In Lee's case it was mostly his stunt double, but still!)

Thanks. I enjoyed the fight sequence there so much I dared not touch a frame of it. It's totally a nerd-dream fight sequence, seeing a wizard and two Elvish lords just unleashing bad-ass hell on Nazgul.. the effects are superb, the sequence is well choreographed, no bloat.. loved that sequence! 

So again, thank you for the review. I think most of it comes down to different preferences/tolerances. When cutting 9+ hours into 5 hours, there is a lot of room for possible variations. Again, if you confirm any digital issue, please let me know, including where. Have a good one!

Stay Thirsty
L8

 

[darth-gary]

I just wanted to say I enjoyed this edit. I enjoy the original films to a certain degree, but I find it hard to sit through all 3 films. This edit does it in 2, which is what I believe should have been done. This is part 1 and 2, and it works for me. I'll only pull out the blu-rays if I want to watch 3D, but they'll most likely collect dust on my shelf as I enjoy this version. Well done

 

[L8wrtr]

Thanks Darth!

 

[MovieMaven]

For the record, I was viewing the updated 720p version (on laptop, so higher res would probably not have made a difference). The artifact problem has not recurred, so I think it was a playback glitch on my end (VLC will do that on rare occasions).

Overall and in comparison with various other fanedits, I like it a lot - up to the orc interrogation scene from DoS. If you (generic you, including other aspiring faneditors) feel you must have this scene, please find a way to edit out Thranduil's promise of safety to the orc (that he breaks). This drops him immediately into Unredeemable Villain territory, and he's unsympathetic enough without it.

Up to that point, there were indications that Thorin was overreacting and being unreasonable - he had even blamed "the Elves" for not preventing the sack of Moria, when the nearest Elves to Moria were in Lothlorien (Celeborn and Galadriel's subjects) and hadn't had any more to do with Erebor than Elrond had. (And Galadriel and Celeborn knew what dwelt in the depths of Moria that wasn't mentioned in the Hobbit movies.)

Then Thranduil had to go and prove that Thorin had his number cold and that he cannot be trusted!

This bites especially hard when Thorin has his own slide into villainous territory and we are asked to view Thranduil more sympathetically(!).


On the whole I think the whole sequence, from capture of the orc to Tauriel and then Legolas going AWOL, can be dispensed with. Properly re-edited, they keep hunting orcs and don't report back, and the whole moral dilemma goes away.

I think it's probably time for my list of Deal Breakers - that scene is definitely on it.

 

[AnimenoSekai]

You did it again. Thank you so much for giving us these amazing releases.

 

[MovieMaven]

(MovieMaven):- I miss the flashback to Dale as it was before Smaug, which adds poignancy to the ruins we see in the third film/Volume 2.

(L8wrtr): I'm confused by this, because the only way to keep the flashback to Dale is to keep Ian Holm's recounting of things and not jump straight to "In a hole in the ground there lived.. a Hobbit.."

It's not the only way I've seen - some other edits have moved the Erebor/Dale flashback to later (during the Dwarves' planning over Bilbo's dinner table, or as an edited montage under their singing of "Misty Mountains", extended by additional vocals or instrumentals). Only certain bits are really necessary - the establishing pan over Dale to Erebor, a look inside Erebor including Thror taunting Thranduil with the jewel chest, the children's kites being burned up by Smaug, short clips of Smaug torching Dale and busting his way into Erebor, of the Dwarves running away, of Thranduil turning his army away, and ending with Thorin at the anvil - I think it shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

There's a brief scene by a burned and shattered children's carousel in Dale, that the viewer doesn't get the full horror of unless they've seen it as it was, gaily painted and being ridden by joyful children. They might not even realize what it was.

If PJ had paid as much attention to the story as to his visuals, there wouldn't be so many fanedits.

 

[dubmo]

Hmmm... do I need a paid Mega account for this? Got the links through the dlc but still no dice. Tried both 720p + 1080p.

 

[alek2702]

Would anyone be so kind to PM with the whereabouts of this edit?  
It's down on dotINFO and l8wrtr hasn't logged in in the last two months here it seems...

 

[TV's Frink]

Please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot. More details on our policies, especially our Own the Source rule are available here. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.

 

[Bizquik]

Hi all.
I was looking for help with a download of this, too, as it is not up on dotINFO.

Thanks in advance!

 

[TV's Frink]

Read the rules.  

1) Don't request links in project threads.
2) Don't link to sites hosting files.

Next time results in an infraction.

 

[L8wrtr]

The scarcity of this edit is currently under corrective actions.. with luck, by this time next week.

 

[TV's Frink]

This is the second best news I've heard this week.

The best news was when I found out we were having sushi on a Wednesday.

 

[L8wrtr]

Be it known that the Blurays (Volume 1 and Volume 2) are now, for the first time ever, online. DLC's have been submitted to the places where they are submitted.
Until such time as they are available, anyone seeking these edits out, please feel free to send me a PM.


mpgs will be up asap.

But now, it's time for second breakfast.

 

[TM2YC]

Be it known that the Blurays (Volume 1 and Volume 2) are now, for the first time ever, online. DLC's have been submitted to the places where they are submitted.
Until such time as they are available, anyone seeking these edits out, please feel free to send me a PM.

Excellent news . What are the smaller filesize options going to be? I'm looking forward to seeing your Radagast/flashback cut because the way I've got it now involves some harsh cropping.

now, it's time for second breakfast.

 

[L8wrtr]

Excellent news . What are the smaller filesize options going to be?

The original files that had been posted when the edit was first released, but then went MIA are as follows:
720 Vol 1 in MP4 format: 2.76GB 
720 Vol 2 in MP4 format: 5.4GB

1080 Vol 1 in MP4 format: 10.75GB
1080 Vol 2 in MP4 format: 17.36GB

I am in the process of up'ing the 720's right now and expect they'll be done by end of day. After that I'm switching gears to get the DVD of Son of Jor El back online, which should be complete by tomorrow morning, and then I can do the 1080 of TABA, which I would guestimate be done by sometime mid-day Sunday.

I also have mpg exports at 15 and 25gb apiece at 1080p, but they seem a bit superfluous given the mp4's already lined up for uploading.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Radagast/flashback cut because the way I've got it now involves some harsh cropping.

If you're current solution is choppy, then this should be an improvement. I look forward to your thoughts on it, and when I have a moment, I'll check your thread out to see what your approach overall is going to be!