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The Hobbit [M4 Book Edit 2021] [4 Hours]

M4_

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Introduction

Hello! I have completed my own re-edit of The Hobbit trilogy, made from scratch, started in 2019, and now finished in the summer of 2021. For those that may wonder "what makes this unique," I can briefly explain. Most of the successful Hobbit edits I see here are usually the 2 film or 3 film format (The Arkenstone edit, 2 film structure, l8wrtr, wraith edit, and more) , which are all amazing in their own right, but I found myself wanting to have The Hobbit in an extended edition style single-film format, so as a result mine is in a completely different direction than all of those. Granted, 3-in-1 Hobbit edits are also somewhat common here, to a lesser extent (there's several - Spence edit, anti-cringe edit), but none of them set out to stick to the book as close as possible, except for just one (The Maple edit).

So with that said, what I am getting at is there is still a lot of room for interpretation and creativity within this "genre" of book focused 1-movie Hobbit edits, that a "new" experience can still be delivered, and thus my version is not a rehash of any prior fan edits, due to both its formats and goals, which have only barely been tackled by this fan edit community based on the approved edits list (As again, to my knowledge there's only one other like mine). Anyways, that leads to my project, which has all of its goals listed below. In summary, I cut the movies to be as book accurate as possible, to fit better with the LOTR films, and overall be a more streamlined film that's enjoyable for all audiences.

Main Goals (Summary/TLDR)

1) Be more faithful to The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien while still being under Peter Jackson’s vision. Includes making the story focus on the main quest & also decreasing the numerous references to LOTR, allowing both stories to stand on their own.

2) Consistent tone as the story progresses from its lighthearted beginning to serious ending. With this, a convincing atmosphere displaying more realistic combat and physics is present throughout.

3) Maintain professional film editing techniques, specifically with making smooth audio transitions, maintaining a surround sound mix with new edits, and good pacing.

4) Stay in Middle Earth as long as possible with our beloved characters, never cut anything “good” or from the book purely for the sake of runtime.

5) Appeal to all Middle Earth & movie fans, regardless of what their prior knowledge is with any of the books or original films.

Project started on June 19th 2019, with an initial release in April 2020.

Title: The Hobbit (Extended Edition)
Runtime: 4 hours 5 min (Without counting credits/intermission)
Resources used:
  • J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Hobbit
  • The Hobbit: All 3 movies [Extended Edition HD Blu-rays, 5.1 audio]
  • The Hobbit Soundtrack: All 3 movies [Special Edition, FLAC]
  • The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies [Theatrical Version HD Blu-ray, 5.1 audio]
  • Many new sound effects
  • Adobe Premiere for video and audio editing
  • Audacity for some additional audio mixing
Detailed Project Overview
  • 2 parts (Like each LOTR extended edition film) instead of 3 movies - The digital version is combined into one movie file while the disc version is two separate files. It's been split in half because 1) the parts can fit on 2 dual layer discs perfectly 2) it recreates how each LOTR extended edition was split in half 3)it covers up the mediocre transition by Peter Jackson that's impossible to fix (End of Hobbit AUJ to start of Hobbit DoS)
  • The story focuses on Bilbo primarily, like the book
    • Character & sideplot removals
      • Radagast -> Removed
      • Dol Guldur/Sauron -> Removed
      • White Council -> Removed (Only brief appearance in my "Special Features")
      • Bolg -> Removed (Still kills Kili, but he's not a real character, just a random Orc)
      • Frodo -> 30 second cameo
      • Legolas -> 60 second cameo
      • Alfrid -> Background character (Two lines, required to drive plot forward)
      • Tauriel -> Background character (One line)
    • Character & sideplot adjustments
      • Azog - Not seen until the final act of the movie, where he appears as a nameless Orc leader in a 20-minute sequence representing the final climax, the "Battle of the Five Armies." I refer to him as Azog because it's easier, even though in my edit no one says his name. Gandalf arrives to warn the others about an approaching army, providing the initial context and more build up to the final battle. Then, we see Azog march his army towards the mountain with some redubbed subtitles for context, so the audience understands the Orcs want to capture the mountain because Smaug is dead, similar to how the Elves/Men lay siege upon Erebor for its riches.
      • Thorin - His character arc is now focused on honor & pride instead of dragon sickness, and he has no connection to Azog. This places the impact of his final duel on proving himself. A King that was once overcome with greed, pride, and selfishness, but eventually able to overcome it to perform the most selfless act for his friends, by sacrificing himself to help defeat the Orcs. His final scene is his funeral with Gandalf's deleted eulogy reinserted.
      • Thranduil - The other King in opposition to Thorin, who could not empathize with the great loss of the Dwarves, offering them no aid, and selfishly sided with the men who did have a legitimate claim on the Mountain, just for his own personal benefit to get some gems, at the cost of most of his army. He finally realizes the pain from such a huge loss in life, especially being an Elf, which might change his attitude on what’s important in the world. This means his arc has no nonsense with Tauriel/Legolas/Legolas's Mom/Strider. His final scene is him reflecting on the fallen Elves in Dale after the battle is finished.
      • Bard - His role is the same except without the Master/Alfrid conflicts. In the book, there was half a sentence saying how Lakemen had accused Bard of wrongdoings in the past, but it was not to the extent that people were spying on him and that he was getting arrested. Instead, Bard is a simple every-man looking out for his family and his people, who is opposed to the Dwarves awakening Smaug, which the Master of the lake actually disagrees with, showing some of his "going against the grain" characterization as referenced in the book. Bard & his kids show up a few times as minor characters throughout the Laketown portion of the movie. Smaug attacks Laketown, and in response Bard defeats him (without the help of his son balancing an arrow on his shoulder), and then he becomes the leader of the Men, at which point he is now a full on main character. The rest of his role plays out relatively the same as the original films, with the exception of him trying to save his kids during the battle, instead, it's assumed his kids are safe hidden away with the other people while Bard fights on the frontlines. Unfortunately, Bard doesn't really get a final scene due to the footage that exists, but we last see him paying respects in Dale during Thorin's funeral.
      • Dragon sickness - It's now referenced two or three times, but it is clearly not a literal sickness, and instead expands on how Dwarves are known to be greedy. This is similar context to how it was mentioned (once) in the book, just a metaphor for someone overtaken by greed.
      • "Black arrows only rule" for killing the dragon isn't how it works anymore, instead, black arrows are just stronger arrows, like the book. I think it's silly to make it sound like they are the only weapon in Middle Earth that can kill a dragon.
  • Toning down the LOTR fanservice/connections - In my opinion, this movie is supposed to be a separate story from LOTR. There were too many exaggerated references & sideplots that I felt should be removed or toned down. It still is good to have connection to LOTR, just nothing overdone, so that means no fan service. For example, as discussed earlier, Legolas & Frodo's roles have been substantially reduced to just cameos, and that includes the removal of the forced Gimli reference. Also, obviously the whole Sauron build up has been removed, because that is for another story. I have removed the excessive evil-ring music cues, so they are now only to be heard around the Gollum portion of the movie/when Bilbo first finds it, and then once more when we transition to Old Bilbo holding the ring at the end. I didn't want "the ring" part to be overdone, this film isn't supposed to be another story of a Hobbit being manipulated by the ring, which was unfortunately attempted in the original Hobbit trilogy, like when Bilbo goes crazy killing a baby spider because he dropped the ring, Bilbo petting the ring in Beorn's house, Bilbo lying to Gandalf to hide the ring, or the constant Sauron eye flashes. All of that is gone, because that is not what the story is about. In addition, I wanted to pay homage to how the ring was written in the book, and make the ring work well with what we see in Gandalf/Bilbo's characters throughout both stories. That is, it works best that the ring stays as just a cool magic ring that doesn't really matter during The Hobbit, because Gandalf doesn't know about it or its importance, and neither will a first time audience. But then, it is only in Fellowship when we finally start to uncover how important this ring is. Gandalf learns that after those 60 years Bilbo has been effected by a magic ring. He does his research in Minas Tirith, and it turns out the ring Bilbo has is "the one," and connected to Sauron. Why should all the Sauron one ring hints & references be dumped in the Hobbit movies, rather than the natural progression of knowledge we get in Fellowship, which is of course, closer to how it happened in the actual Tolkien lore? I'll throw the audience a bone with a few ring music cues, but then let Fellowship do the rest of the work introducing Sauron.
  • For the book fans, movie chapters reflect each chapter in the novel while maintaining a cinematic narrative, I read while editing. Every detail from the book was considered during the cutting process, so I was able to keep so many little references. Examples include:
    • Gandalf wanting red wine in Bag End, Gandalf saying Bombur counts as 2 Dwarves, Thorin's dialogue in Mirkwood, the White Deer/river scene in Mirkwood, the Beorn intro scene as a whole, Dori complaining about rain, Thorin swearing to be avenged if anyone takes the Arkenstone, Gandalf/Bilbo departure at the end is word-for-word from the book, I was even able to extract a line Smaug says to Thorin in the movie but says to Bilbo in the book so it now is in the right place, and more.
  • Setting the tone & fixing the universe/aesthetic. I've found that the Hobbit trilogy felt tremendously different in its universe and tone compared to LOTR. With this edit I was able to 1) remove the differences in how Middle Earth felt (because it should feel like it's the same world), and 2) slightly bring the tone between each story closer, but still different enough to honor the book. That means, yes, LOTR is the epic dark trilogy, while The Hobbitis a more lighthearted-comedic adventure that gets grittier over time, but still close enough to feel like both are in the same world.
    • Universe & aesthetic:
      • To make the Hobbit trilogy feel more like LOTR, I removed all of the wacky designs that I felt did not fit. Blind trolls with peg-legs, trolls with mini-catapults and goblins on their back, a troll with a stone on his head for a battering ram, gigantic stone giants, Dwarf goat cavalry, and more.
      • I also made sure to remove everything that crossed a line of defying physics (which had a lot of crossover with cutting stuff that wasn't from the book), such as the Dwarves sliding down an entire cave on a broken bridge without being harmed, the entire Dwarf-Smaug chase, Legolas running up stones, flying with a bat, Bombur's barrel scene, and plenty more.
      • Color correction to tone down the excessive saturation, which you can read more about below in the color correction section. Still, even after my edits to reduce saturation, the colors and atmosphere are less gritty than LOTR, which is how I believe it should be, just not so extreme as it was in the original Hobbit trilogy.
      • Now, The Hobbit actually feels and looks closer to the same universe, so I can focus on how I make sure the tone between each story is distinct, as to resemble the nature of each of their respective books
    • Tone. Many things were kept, many things were removed, all to create an entirely new tone.
      • Changing up the action scenes. There were too many times to count where characters did ridiculous combat stunts/cheap comedy stunts that you would expect to see in generic Hollywood movies such as dodging arrows with swords, using a slingshot that shoots pebbles against a troll, Dwarves killing things behind them without even looking, headbutting Orcs that have a helmet on, doing spinning fighting tricks that wouldn't work in real life, and just so many more. By removing all of these instances, the combat can match closer to what we saw in LOTR.
      • Songs. I kept all of the songs taken from the book, as they are basically straight out of Tolkien's words. Small adjustments have been made to make the scenes slightly shorter and more digestible, but I strongly believe these are positive additions to the tone of the story, which is more lighthearted, while also paying great homage to the text.
        • Misty Mountains: No changes
        • Blunt the Knives: I removed all of the most ridiculous plate tricks which were done with CGI, so we still get to enjoy the song from the book, but we don't have to sit through such a circus act. As a result, the song is a little shorter, but the full song can be found in my special features.
        • Goblin Town song: I removed any weird footage of the Goblin King, his excessive dancing, fist pumping, his silly dialogue before/after the song, and crushing Goblins with his feet. As a result, the song has been shortened by one stanza.
      • Comedy. Pretty much all of the Company/Bilbo/Gandalf banter & comedy is still in tact, as it was in the book, mostly in the first half of the story. There's just nothing over the top now, and as the story progresses it actually gets less and less lighthearted, whereas in the original films the final movie still had so many cheap comedy moments that ruined it all. Some "comedy" moments that I removed are the Dwarf-Elf romance jokes from Rivendell all the way to the Woodland Realm, all the Alfrid stuff, climbing through toilets, naked Dwarves in the Elf fountain, and plenty more, but still - there's a time and place for some fun comedy.
      • In conclusion, with a balance of adjustments to the comedy & action seen in these movies, I feel I was able to really improve the tone, not only to make it feel ever so slightly more congruent with the LOTR, but to also reach that perfect sweet spot where it's just as fun and lighthearted as the book at times, but still able to be a story you can take seriously and be emotionally invested in.
  • Color correction to decrease the heavy glow of saturation. Everything looks slightly more real, natural, and congruent with LOTR. I was careful not to go overboard and completely zap the life out of the film, which is not ideal for a Middle Earth fantasy movie. I was also careful to ensure that The Hobbitdoesn't look extremely gritty and dark all the time, because that just doesn't match the story.
    • Saturation and vibrancy decreased anywhere from by 0-8%, depending on the scene or film
    • Green tint removed throughout the edit
    • Subtle 35mm film grain added to match a little closer to LOTR
    • All three films should blend together as "one" in terms of color as best as possible, but it is intentional that the colors shift as the story progresses and as characters enter new realms
  • New Digital Alterations - all created by eric1894unless otherwise stated
  • Gandalf still has several disappearances like the book, but because I removed the sideplots, they now play out a little different. I found that his sideplots were a problem in the original films because they distracted from Bilbo and the company.
    • The major disappearance of Gandalf has to do with the build up in evilness & an Orc presence in Middle Earth. Beorn mentions Orcs, Gandalf sees the red marking in Mirkwood, so he leaves to investigate. Later, he is seen eagerly riding as fast as he can back to Erebor, so the audience knows his little side quest is over and he's returning. He reveals that he has discovered a huge Orc army coming to attack the Mountain, finally explaining the purpose of his disappearance (instead of the explanation being fighting the Necromancer, because that does not contribute to this story). Unfortunately, no one listens to him, and Gandalf can only try to delay conflict.
  • The transition from part 1 -> part 2 is as smooth as it can get. Again, it's all one movie, but I have explained earlier at the top of this page why there is a pause/intermission. We end at the Company looking off into the distance at the Lonely Mountain in the morning, [then intermission], and we return with them having made some more progress into a forested area, and it's now nighttime. The wolves have almost caught up to them, and they discover Beorn in bear form. They have no choice but to run through the forest and out into Beorn's house, in a new custom sequence with a more natural flow of geography as compared to the original scenes.
  • Soundtrack: "Misty Mountains" theme added into the Battle of the Five Armies during a fighting montage, unused piece "Good Omen" used during the Eagle montage, and unused piece "Dreaming of Bag End" placed after the main credits song finishes. Also there are many new audio cues, extensions, and shortenings of various soundtrack to create new transitions or sequences.
  • Updated end credits - Main starring list features Thorin's company, the LOTR cameos & returning cast, as well as the main side characters throughout the film (Like Bard, Thranduil, Dain, etc). The Full cast list contains those already listed, as well as all the minor characters, whether they were always minor or their roles were reduced, such as Tauriel or Alfrid. Azog is never mentioned by name, so I credited him only as Bolg to be slightly accurate to the book. I also updated the main sung credit music to this.
And of course I could keep going on about all of the minor changes but that would be too much, luckily, if you're interested in reading more, I can send you my website/cut list document which has everything listed, thank you for reading!
 
Last edited:

revel911

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How is the transition after the leave with the eagles? That so far has been decent at best and none great.
 

M4_

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revel911 said:
How is the transition after the leave with the eagles? That so far has been decent at best and none great.
EDIT: This transition has changed since I made this comment

So I've come to the conclusion that it is physically impossible to make it perfect for a "one movie" edit, the only way to do so would have an "insert disc 2" screen which is what I have done for my Blu-ray 2 disc version, but for the digitial version, it rides all the way through, so here are my notes on all the options I could do, I ended up doing the 3rd and 4th.

1) Use a Gandalf voice over about Beorn while they are flying the eagles, then cut to then Beorn's house (What Maple guy did). The problem is it's kind of cheap to have a narration because you don't get to see any instance of them entering Beorn's house, they just appear there
2) Use that Gandalf voice over while they are on Carrock, then cut to Beorn. The problem is you don't see him speak it's just shots of the company or of other characters, because originally gandalf says this line later (What "Nameless Editor" did)
3) End the movie, "insert disc 2," etc
4) Have them land on Carrock, they have a few brief words, and Bilbo says 'I do believe the worst is behind us.' It's a close face shot of him. Then, it instantly cuts to this scene: (Ignore the low quality just some random YT clip) 
 I removed any sight of Azog, Bilbo simply notices Beorn. This route is what I have chosen
Pros
-Somewhat of a "match cut" with Bilbo's face
-Bilbo's dialogue is ironic and shows his naiveness, because just as the poor little Hobbit thinks all the worst is behind them, we jump ahead and he sees even more danger (You'll learn he's scouting for the company and he notices Beorn, yet another challenge to overcome)
-This way we visually introduce Beorn, we hear Gandalf introduce Beorn without narration, and we get a segue from Carrock -> Beorn's house (Although not perfect, ideally we would have footage of them climbing down Carrock and hiking during the day)
-I obviously used overlaying music with the transition
-It is the most 'close' to the book as in, they get off the Eagles and continue on their own, still worried about the pack of wolves that attacked them in the trees, so I was able to keep that aspect, then it deviates a bit to Jackson style where they are running from Beorn, but then we get back on track when they wake up and talk to Beorn. 

Cons
-It jumps from morning to night, (but there's no footage to go between, so it's up to the audience to assume they've just been hiking for a while)
-We do not see them climb down off Carrock (but again no footage of this exists)

I think it works as best as it can, but some may disagree so let me know. And if people like everything about the edit except the transition, then just download the disc version where it cuts off with an "insert disc" screen between.
 

Malthus

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As a fan of the book I really struggled watching this trilogy when it was released. In actual fact I have yet to watch the final film all the way through. It was such a frustrating project with some really good sequences but so much unnecessary content and silliness. Your choice of cuts and changes sound really good. I'd definitely like to learn more about your project.
 

Jrzag42

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I've only watched the first Hobbit. Then I read the book, and fell in love. I almost saw the second movie, but due to unfortunate circumstances I did not see it. And then I didn't bother to watch it on video, nor did I bother to watch the third one.
I'm quite interested in a book cut. I have a couple downloaded, but I haven't watched them yet. One ended up getting poor reviews and wasn't approved. I forget what happened to the other one.
This one seems the most promising, it seems that a lot of effort was put in to make it as close as possible to the book. I'm definitely interested in this.
 

M4_

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Thanks for the interest guys, sent you both a message. While I am completely happy with this cut and have released it, I'll still be looking for any constructive criticism. I've run it by my friends & reddit, so far so good, but you guys might have a better eye for pacing and catching audio issues.
 

Hal9000

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I wouldn’t mind taking a look! PM me?
 

TM2YC

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Sorry this took me so long to review...

This a really enjoyable, streamlined Hobbit edit with some very clever narrative cuts, snipping out big stretches of side-plot smoothly. The intro into Rivendell (and outro), the stone giant removal, Bilbo's dream of Rivendell, the trims to the Laketown intro, many trims to Bard' activities and the Thorin/Azog montage were great ideas. Mostly the edits are invisible/inaudible but there are several that stand out due to abrupt changes in music, or music disappearing suddenly. Here is a list of the points that need fixed...

00.48.45 - This music change after Gandalf has spoken comes a bit out of nowhere but it's okay-ish. Maybe the timing just feels off. Shouldn't we get a reaction shot from Bilbo (digesting what Gandalf told him) before the music signals a move to a new scene?
00.56.17 - The harp music fades a little too quickly as you switch to night. It's okay though.
01.29.49 - The big loud and proud Misty Mountains theme fades out way too quickly and suddenly as you cut to Gollum. Perhaps you could mix in some of the soundtrack, so you don't have to fade as early?
01.38.54 - An abrupt change in music between night and day in the eagle scenes. Some smoothing is needed.
01.40.42 - When you describe this in your project thread as "one long book edit" and "edited down to one long movie" the viewer doesn't expect there to be a minute of black in the middle that says "The story continues on disc two...". You either need to "market" this as a two-film edit, or properly edit the two halves together somehow, or if you like it the way you have it, perhaps you could change your title to "Intermission" or "Entr'acte". Accompany that with a couple of minutes of soaring score and it'd be in the style of those old Hollywood Epics from the 50s/60s. You could even add an overture to the start!
02.13.24 - The switch between two very different pieces of music is pretty rough at the end of the barrel ride. You can hear the dialogue fading down at the same time as the music.
02.13.37 - Then we’re rapidly into a third piece of music.
02.15.22 - Bard noticing the battle damage on the barrels doesn’t work when you've removed the battle. Perhaps lose the closeup? so it's less obviously arrow impacts that Bard is pointing out.
02.19.26 - The cut into Bard's home sounds off. I think it's because you switch from one piece of music to another a few seconds before, then cut to no music.
02.25.59 - Very abrupt audio cut from laketown to the boat on the lake.
02.47.06 - I think you could afford a few more frames of Smaug bursting out of Erebor. The cut looks rushed as it is.
02.52.18 - Very abrupt audio cut to daytime shoreline. You need have some music, or audio carrying across the cut.
03.29.54 - The music ends way too quick, plus I’m not at all clear where and why Bilbo had run off to suddenly? Originally Bilbo was heroically off to warn Thorin on Ravenhill about Legolas' intel but you removed all that explanation didn't you? Are you trying to imply Bilbo just put on the ring and was running away out of cowardice, before he accidentally got knocked out before he could escape?
03.30.37 - The axe/hammer impact here (from Ori I think) is too quiet to the point of being almost inaudible, unlike the other preceding loud sound axe sounds. https://freesound.org/ has lots of stuff you could use, or just copy/paste in an impact from somewhere else in the movie. It doesn't have to super loud but it needs to be there.
03.31.33 - Massively abrupt cut from fili outside to fili inside.
03.34.16 - The lack of a kili stab sound is very odd now. It worked in the original movie because all the sound was sucked out, giving it impact but you've added on prominent music, so hearing nothing just sounds wrong. Again suitable sounds can be found on https://freesound.org/, or spliced in from one of the other hundreds of impacts from elsewhere in the movie.
03.36.19 - Not seeing what caused Thorin to die just about works because you've successfully implied Bilbo is slipping in/out of consciousness. But perhaps you add in a few shots of him at least struggling to defeat Azog, to indicate he was in mortal danger?

Let me know if any of that is unclear. Thanks for an inspirational Hobbit rewatch.

Hal9000 said:
I wouldn’t mind taking a look! PM me?

^ It's worth getting feedback from @"Hal9000" if you haven't already. He knows his onions fanedit wise.
 

MusicEd921

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Once this edit is finished, count me in for a watch!  There are sooooo many edits to choose from and from such incredible editors on this site.  I really am interested in a straight to the point edit that sticks to the books.
 

M4_

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TM2YC said:
Sorry this took me so long to review...

This a really enjoyable, streamlined Hobbit edit with some very clever narrative cuts, snipping out big stretches of side-plot smoothly. The intro into Rivendell (and outro), the stone giant removal, Bilbo's dream of Rivendell, the trims to the Laketown intro, many trims to Bard' activities and the Thorin/Azog montage were great ideas. Mostly the edits are invisible/inaudible but there are several that stand out due to abrupt changes in music, or music disappearing suddenly. Here is a list of the points that need fixed...
00.48.45 - This music change after Gandalf has spoken comes a bit out of nowhere but it's okay-ish. Maybe the timing just feels off. Shouldn't we get a reaction shot from Bilbo (digesting what Gandalf told him) before the music signals a move to a new scene?
00.56.17 - The harp music fades a little too quickly as you switch to night. It's okay though.
01.29.49 - The big loud and proud Misty Mountains theme fades out way too quickly and suddenly as you cut to Gollum. Perhaps you could mix in some of the soundtrack, so you don't have to fade as early?
01.38.54 - An abrupt change in music between night and day in the eagle scenes. Some smoothing is needed.
01.40.42 - When you describe this in your project thread as "one long book edit" and "edited down to one long movie" the viewer doesn't expect there to be a minute of black in the middle that says "The story continues on disc two...". You either need to "market" this as a two-film edit, or properly edit the two halves together somehow, or if you like it the way you have it, perhaps you could change your title to "Intermission" or "Entr'acte". Accompany that with a couple of minutes of soaring score and it'd be in the style of those old Hollywood Epics from the 50s/60s. You could even add an overture to the start!
02.13.24 - The switch between two very different pieces of music is pretty rough at the end of the barrel ride. You can hear the dialogue fading down at the same time as the music.
02.13.37 - Then we’re rapidly into a third piece of music.
02.15.22 - Bard noticing the battle damage on the barrels doesn’t work when you've removed the battle. Perhaps lose the closeup? so it's less obviously arrow impacts that Bard is pointing out.
02.19.26 - The cut into Bard's home sounds off. I think it's because you switch from one piece of music to another a few seconds before, then cut to no music.
02.25.59 - Very abrupt audio cut from laketown to the boat on the lake.
02.47.06 - I think you could afford a few more frames of Smaug bursting out of Erebor. The cut looks rushed as it is.
02.52.18 - Very abrupt audio cut to daytime shoreline. You need have some music, or audio carrying across the cut.
03.29.54 - The music ends way too quick, plus I’m not at all clear where and why Bilbo had run off to suddenly? Originally Bilbo was heroically off to warn Thorin on Ravenhill about Legolas' intel but you removed all that explanation didn't you? Are you trying to imply Bilbo just put on the ring and was running away out of cowardice, before he accidentally got knocked out before he could escape?
03.30.37 - The axe/hammer impact here (from Ori I think) is too quiet to the point of being almost inaudible, unlike the other preceding loud sound axe sounds. https://freesound.org/ has lots of stuff you could use, or just copy/paste in an impact from somewhere else in the movie. It doesn't have to super loud but it needs to be there.
03.31.33 - Massively abrupt cut from fili outside to fili inside.
03.34.16 - The lack of a kili stab sound is very odd now. It worked in the original movie because all the sound was sucked out, giving it impact but you've added on prominent music, so hearing nothing just sounds wrong. Again suitable sounds can be found on https://freesound.org/, or spliced in from one of the other hundreds of impacts from elsewhere in the movie.
03.36.19 - Not seeing what caused Thorin to die just about works because you've successfully implied Bilbo is slipping in/out of consciousness. But perhaps you add in a few shots of him at least struggling to defeat Azog, to indicate he was in mortal danger?

Let me know if any of that is unclear. Thanks for an inspirational Hobbit rewatch.
Hal9000 said:
I wouldn’t mind taking a look! PM me?

^ It's worth getting feedback from @"Hal9000" if you haven't already. He knows his onions fanedit wise.
Thank you for the feedback! I am super happy you watched all the way through and took all this time to give feedback.

EDIT: Feedback responses have been removed as I have actually fixed everything on the list & more, back then I thought some things were impossible or not the way I wanted to go, but it's all come together in 2021!
 
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TM2YC

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m4semperfi said:
THANK YOU for watching and giving all this feedback. Now I have something to work on. [/b]Regardless of what color/what I said, I am still going through each timestamp individually that you listed and working my best to improve it with regards to a 'first time' viewer seeing it with no prior knowledge.

Let me know when you've got a second version ready with all those areas worked on. Once those edits are finessed to be as smooth as all the others this will be a great edit.
 

scriptering

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So I watched the edit last month, since then I have watched around 7 more edits, and I have to say yours is definitely the best one! Thanks so much for your work! 
If you are still taking feedback, and I have no idea if this is even possible as I haven't seen another edit do it, during the barrel escape scene Tauriel actually sees Bilbo fall through the floor, and I always found that odd if there's no chase scene afterwards. Is it possible to either remove the scene of Tauriel seeing it, or maybe she only goes down the steps when Bilbo has only gone through?
Again this is such a small nitpick as the rest of it is superb.

Another thing I have been curious about, in the goblin tunnels how well would it work if the scene where Gandalf saves the company with a blast cuts right to Bilbo waking up, and then we just follow his perspective the whole way out, without the escape fight scenes?
 

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scriptering said:
So I watched the edit last month, since then I have watched around 7 more edits, and I have to say yours is definitely the best one! Thanks so much for your work! 
If you are still taking feedback, and I have no idea if this is even possible as I haven't seen another edit do it, during the barrel escape scene Tauriel actually sees Bilbo fall through the floor, and I always found that odd if there's no chase scene afterwards. Is it possible to either remove the scene of Tauriel seeing it, or maybe she only goes down the steps when Bilbo has only gone through?
Again this is such a small nitpick as the rest of it is superb.

Another thing I have been curious about, in the goblin tunnels how well would it work if the scene where Gandalf saves the company with a blast cuts right to Bilbo waking up, and then we just follow his perspective the whole way out, without the escape fight scenes?

Wow, thanks!
-Yes this could be possible, I'll add it to my update list. Although, if I can't do anything with it, I don't think it's a huge deal. Thranduil is the one with the huge grudge against Thorin while the other elves just despise them and dont care about them, so in my eyes the situation in their heads is like fuck it, not our problem anymore, had enough with them anyways..
-This would definitely be possible, but I actually enjoy a bit of the goblin fighting escaping. I've removed all the stupid parts so now it's just slashing and running, and the music is good. I think it's a fun sequence, and a good pay off after having to only hear about legends and tales of Dwarves for the past hour, to finally see them just fighting and some real action. You could pretty easily do this yourself, if you rip the iso to a video file, or edit the mp4 version.
 

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TM2YC said:
m4semperfi said:
THANK YOU for watching and giving all this feedback. Now I have something to work on. [/b]Regardless of what color/what I said, I am still going through each timestamp individually that you listed and working my best to improve it with regards to a 'first time' viewer seeing it with no prior knowledge.

Let me know when you've got a second version ready with all those areas worked on. Once those edits are finessed to be as smooth as all the others this will be a great edit.
Sounds good. I'll probably be updating it way later down the line because I've been busy, I will definitely message you with a list/timestamps of all the changes so it will be easy for you.
 

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Gotta say this looks interesting.  I really like L8's cut but have been looking for a more purist "book cut".

One question... I noticed in reading that you cut the stone giants; I think the part where they're actually on a giant is not fantastic, but I do like seeing them (as they're in the book).  It'd probably be a difficult (if not impossible) cut, but have you thought about including the giants but not all the nonsense of being ON the giants?

Anyways, good luck!
 

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Dr. Chim Richalds said:
Gotta say this looks interesting.  I really like L8's cut but have been looking for a more purist "book cut".

One question... I noticed in reading that you cut the stone giants; I think the part where they're actually on a giant is not fantastic, but I do like seeing them (as they're in the book).  It'd probably be a difficult (if not impossible) cut, but have you thought about including the giants but not all the nonsense of being ON the giants?

Anyways, good luck!

Thanks! The edit is basically done I just have a list of possible technical changes I can make, feel free to message me for a link.
As for the stone giants, I know they are in the book but there's too many factors pointing towards not using them. Tolkien's never described them in LOTR or ever in the Silmarillion, it seems like they were just a one-off thing in the hobbit. That's why some believe they were just a form of trolls, or maybe the passage was figuratively speaking. Here is the beginning of the stone giant paragraph in question:

"When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out and were hurling rocks at one another for a game"

So in the best interest of following Tolkien's vision and sticking to the tone of The Hobbit I feel Jackson's trolls will never really work, it's one of those instances where it's better to have nothing rather than something. Although - if there was some good distance shots of stone giants I would actually heavily consider putting them in like you say, but unfortunately the only footage really is either the giants pretty close up hurling gigantic stones at the Company or the Company actually standing on the giants leg. In my edit I still have a thunder storm and the company does get into some danger when rocks start collapsing, so the sequence is still there at least. Then they rush inside for shelter.
 

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m4semperfi said:
Dr. Chim Richalds said:
Gotta say this looks interesting.  I really like L8's cut but have been looking for a more purist "book cut".

One question... I noticed in reading that you cut the stone giants; I think the part where they're actually on a giant is not fantastic, but I do like seeing them (as they're in the book).  It'd probably be a difficult (if not impossible) cut, but have you thought about including the giants but not all the nonsense of being ON the giants?

Anyways, good luck!

Thanks! The edit is basically done I just have a list of possible technical changes I can make, feel free to message me for a link.
As for the stone giants, I know they are in the book but there's too many factors pointing towards not using them. Tolkien's never described them in LOTR or ever in the Silmarillion, it seems like they were just a one-off thing in the hobbit. That's why some believe they were just a form of trolls, or maybe the passage was figuratively speaking. Here is the beginning of the stone giant paragraph in question:

"When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out and were hurling rocks at one another for a game"

So in the best interest of following Tolkien's vision and sticking to the tone of The Hobbit I feel Jackson's trolls will never really work, it's one of those instances where it's better to have nothing rather than something. Although - if there was some good distance shots of stone giants I would actually heavily consider putting them in like you say, but unfortunately the only footage really is either the giants pretty close up hurling gigantic stones at the Company or the Company actually standing on the giants leg. In my edit I still have a thunder storm and the company does get into some danger when rocks start collapsing, so the sequence is still there at least. Then they rush inside for shelter.

Right on.  My Tolkien lore knowledge is shallow for sure.  The idea really stemmed from reading the illustrated version to my 7 year old.  When she saw the illustrations of the stone giants, she said, "I can't wait to see those in the movie!" and I thought, "Yeah, prepare to be disappointed," but out loud I said, "Yeah, cool," and started trying to imagine any non-lame way to include them.  I watched the scene several times but couldn't think of a great way to see them but not be ON them and also my audio editing skills are worse than my video editing skills, which are not great to begin with.  So thought I'd put the question to someone much more familiar with the scene than me.
 

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I have never seen The Hobbit due to all the negative reviews, but I would love to see this one when it is fully prepared. Thank you for your efforts thus far!
 

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For that Insert Disc 2, how about just an old school ... Intermission screen,.
 

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hothstation said:
I have never seen The Hobbit due to all the negative reviews, but I would love to see this one when it is fully prepared. Thank you for your efforts thus far!

Feel free to message me if you want, I can send the version I have right now (Which I spent a year on) so it's far from just a rough cut, but if you check earlier in the thread there was some feedback so I'll have to take another look. Might be a while until I update it, many of the things I might change are very minor
revel911 said:
For that Insert Disc 2, how about just an old school ... Intermission screen,.

EDIT: This has been added to the digital file version.
 
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