The Hobbit fan edit change spreadsheet

[Moe_Syzlak]

I'm going to try to create a spreadsheet that will give viewers an at-a-glance comparison of the many Hobbit edits. Hat tip to TV's Frink for the idea (he did a similar spreadsheet for the Star Wars PT). I'm going to be away for the next week, but I'm hoping to generate some discussion while I'm gone. What are the categories you'd like to see? Things that immediately come to mind for me are:

- 1, 2, 3 movies
- Frodo prologue cut
- Stone giants cut
- Video game action from Goblin Town cut
- Azog cut
- Love triangle cut
- Video game/GoPro elements of Barrel chase cut
- Dol Goldur cut
- High Fells cut
- Radaghast cut or drastically reduced
- Molten gold/Dwarf action from end of DoS cut

And that's just the first two films. I'm not looking to catalog every change, just the major things that seem to impact the decisions of viewers. Let me know what else you think should be included.

Also, keep in mind that I will need editors to voluntarily answer the questionnaire, so this can't be too complex.

 

[kellenpure]

My 2.5 cents worth:
--Erebor prologue split and/or relocated
--White Council cut
--Dwarves in trees finale drastically reduced or cut
--Orcs and elves in Lake Town cut
--Use of scenes from extended editions?

 

[spence]

Here's some preliminary info on my edit. If you need more detail let me know. It's still evolving so I'll let you know if things change:

- 1, 2, 3 movies - All films cut into 1 three hour film
- Frodo prologue cut - yes, but some of the Bilbo footage will appear in a different context at the end of the film.
- Stone giants cut - yes
- Video game action from Goblin Town cut - Most but not all. Only the first section, where Gandalf rescues the dwarves, is included.
- Azog cut - He's still present as a nameless Orc general, but his history and backstory are cut
- Love triangle cut - Yes. Tauriel still pops up in certain sequences and shots, but just as a nameless Elf.
- Video game/GoPro elements of Barrel chase cut - There are some gopro shots in mine still as they don't bother me, but all of the orcs and elves are removed from my edit. The sequence is only about a minute long once they exit the elf fortress.
- Dol Goldur cut - Much of it cut, but there is still some remaining to set up the Orc army.
- High Fells cut - Majority cut, but it's still there to set up Sauron and lead Gandalf to Dol Goldur
- Radaghast cut or drastically reduced - Drastically reduced
- Molten gold/Dwarf action from end of DoS cut - Completely cut

--Erebor prologue split and/or relocated - No, it's entirely removed
--White Council cut - Elrond and Galadriel still appear but only in Rivendell. Saruman is removed and is only mentioned briefly by Gandalf.
--Dwarves in trees finale drastically reduced or cut - Cut
--Orcs and elves in Lake Town cut - Cut
--Use of scenes from extended editions? - Yes, some are included, mostly around Rivendell.

 

[Brumous]

You could have a category about the tone of the edit.

- Tolkien purist Hobbit book cut
- Not 100% purist but still going for the lighter smaller tone of the book
- Close to the original movie. A mashup of the book and a LOTR prequel
- All LOTR prequel, all darker bigger tone
- Something else

 

[MovieMaven]

More suggestions (personal pet peeves)

--Alfrid: cut or drastically reduced (single most annoying character IMHO)
--Dwarves coming out of toilet cut
--Dwarves left behind cut
--Bard hide-and-seek through Laketown cut

 

[MovieMaven]

deleted - unfortunately cannot delete post completely.

 

[kellenpure]

I have to agree with the Maven, I like some of the White Council stuff, or maybe all in some other format. Things I keep stating I would like to see would be an edit from point of view of Gandalf, maybe an appendix edit that gathers superfluous material from the three films (just good stuff). I was sure disappointed with Beorn overall, sure wish someone came upon some discarded footage, even if the video quality didn't hold up.

 

[MovieMaven]

We're supposed to get more Beorn in the Extended Edition of B5A, but it's going to be a long wait. :yawn:

 

[FatherMerrin]

Here's the checklist for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey which is now available. PM me for the download link.

- 1, 2, 3 movies: 2 movies
- Frodo prologue cut: Yes
- Stone giants cut: Yes
- Video game action from Goblin Town cut: Yes
- Azog cut: No
- Love triangle cut: Toned down and Legolas gone
- Video game/GoPro elements of Barrel chase cut: Yes
- Dol Goldur cut: No
- High Fells cut: No
- Radaghast cut or drastically reduced: Yes
- Molten gold/Dwarf action from end of DoS cut: Yes, gone completely
--Erebor prologue split and/or relocated: Used as Misty Mountain montage
--White Council cut: No
--Dwarves in trees finale drastically reduced or cut: No
--Orcs and elves in Lake Town cut: No
--Use of scenes from extended editions: None
- Tolkien purist Hobbit book cut: No
- Not 100% purist but still going for the lighter smaller tone of the book: No
- Close to the original movie. A mashup of the book and a LOTR prequel: No
- All LOTR prequel, all darker bigger tone: No
- Something else: Yes

 

[kellenpure]

I think it's a smart move to avoid a purist cut, it's been done, and quite well.

 

[Brumous]

Here's the checklist for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey which is now available. PM me for the download link.

- Something else: Yes

The category for tone/intent of the fanedit would be like "choose one". Yours is "something else", so can you say what the tone/intent is? Maybe it could be added to the choices.

 

[addiesin]

...Long Post...

...Double Post...

Maven, I'm not sure that you're understanding the point of this thread.

This is a place to talk about the spreadsheet for Hobbit edits and what editing points should be included on the spreadsheet, not a place to talk about what changes you think should or shouldn't be made to said editing points in some unnamed or non-existant Hobbit edit. It is not necessary for you to reply to my post, just be aware that your posts are both pretty much unrelated to the subject at hand. It's like you're talking to the air.

Also please do not double-post, use the "Edit Post" button at the bottom of your post.

 

[FatherMerrin]

The category for tone/intent of the fanedit would be like "choose one". Yours is "something else", so can you say what the tone/intent is? Maybe it could be added to the choices.

Gotcha

Tone of the edit: Something else - A reined in version of the original

 

[MovieMaven]

Fixed it to the best of my limited ability. Now that I know this discussion is supposed to be faneditors-only, I shan't comment in it again.

 

[TV's Frink]

Read the first post again. You are supposed to suggest additional categories, not answer the ones already presented.

 

[kellenpure]

I would like to suggest a category called "appendix cut". A focus on parts of the movies not included in the book, or involving the main storyline of Bilbo. Something like Kerr did for LOTR, the Aragorn/Arwen short.

 

[kellenpure]

And "Thorin has a beard" cut. My hope is that some day editing will progress to the point where this will be possible, and I want to encourage it!!!!!

 

[HobbitFixer]

I have to agree with the Maven, I like some of the White Council stuff, or maybe all in some other format. Things I keep stating I would like to see would be an edit from point of view of Gandalf, maybe an appendix edit that gathers superfluous material from the three films (just good stuff). I was sure disappointed with Beorn overall, sure wish someone came upon some discarded footage, even if the video quality didn't hold up.

I know I'm late to this thread...

In answer to the above quote: I've combined all three films into a single movie, twice: the usual cuts people mention (love triangle, all the Orc in lake town, Dol Guldur, etc.) - but I have also created a "companion" version that turns Gandalf into the protagonist and follows him exclusively. This version includes all the stuff cut from the Bilbo version proper; Dol Guldur, Council scenes, etc.

@OP

Whew: it would be a big list to post all my cuts - from each of both versions I've made. And I imagine a lot of my cuts are the same as others' versions. But I will add that I do included extended material from movies 1 and 2 (extended Five Armies will be more wait time, obviously). But also all the stuff cut from the Hobbit proper is put into my alternate cut that follows Gandalf.

I'd just redirect you to my thread on these but that's cheap and uncouth, so for the OP benefit I'll post my cut lists here.

"Dwarves of Erebor" (Bilbo proper version)

Reveal message

This is a rather pithy cut list but is hopefully enough of a description that interested readers get a good idea of what I've done.
CUT LIST - The Hobbit: The Dwarves of Erebor

• Entire prologue (Bilbo Historical) is gone.
• Tauriel is completely removed, including the Elf/Dwarf love triangle.
• Tightened-up pacing of many scenes, such as the supper scene in Bag End.
• Removed overnight scene where Thorin/Azog backstory is told.
• Simplified Troll Fight scene to shorten it and move the story forward.
• Removed the first Orc Chase before Rivendell scene.
• Rivendell Supper scene is truncated to move the story forward.
• Thunder Battle scene pace is greatly improved to make it more exciting.
• Goblin Caverns scene one is massively shortened to move story forward.
• Riddles In The Dark sequence has a little trimming to move the story forward.
• Goblin Caverns scene two is shortened and truncated, Gandalf ends the scene.
• Orc Battle (burning cliff/eagles) is removed/cut to chase to Beorn’s home.
• Beorn extended edition material is trimmed to move the story forward.
• Beorn supper table scene is trimmed to move the story forward.
• Mirkwood Forest “dazed” scenes are trimmed to move the story forward.
• Mirkwood Forest ‘Bridge Scene” is trimmed to make it more exciting.
• Mirkwood Spider fight is massively cut-down to move the story forward.
• Mirkwood Elves scene is massively trimmed to move the story forward.
• Woodland Realm “prison” sequence has its pacing improved.
• Barrel Riders sequence is trimmed to remove Orcs and fighting.
• Bard’s Barge sequence is trimmed to get into Esgaroth more quickly.
• Esgaroth (Laketown) sequences are all trimmed to move the story forward.
• Last Light of Durin’s Day sequence pacing is improved.
• Parlay with Smaug sequences have had pacing improved. (Yes: parlay, not parley the way I see it)
• Dwarf entrance into Erebor during Smaug sequence is removed entirely.
• Smaug’s Fury on Laketown sequence has greatly improved pacing.
• All other elements between Dwarves and Dale occupants have been trimmed.
• Thorin versus Bard Settlement Negotiation is truncated.
• Main battle scenes have been trimmed down to be digestible, better pacing.
• Raven Hill battle sequences reduced to interstitials.
• Azog versus Thorin fight pacing is greatly sped-up.
• Thorin Death Scene is trimmed and truncated for better emotional impact.
• Epilogue (Auctioning of Bilbo’s stuff) is trimmed to move the story forward.
• All aspects of Dol Guldur and Arcs are removed.
• All aspects of Radagast have been removed.
• All appearances of Saruman and Galadriel are removed, council meeting, flashbacks, etc.

*NOTE: All removals listed above are present in the “Dol Guldur” version with opposite cuts from this version.This version of The Hobbit focuses squarely on Bilbo as the protagonist and follows his adventure with the dwarves. All aspects of Sauron and Orcs (generally) have been removed. This is a story about the Bilbo/Dwarven quest to reclaim the Arkenstone with a single climactic battle at the end, full stop.

"Necromancer of Dol Guldur" Gandalf alternate version:

Reveal message

This is a rather pithy cut list but is hopefully enough of a description that interested readers get a good idea of what I've done.
CUT LIST - The Hobbit: The Necromancer of Dol Guldur

Note: all Dol Guldur scenes from “Battle of Five Armies” have been spread-out throughout the rest of the movie to turn this into a respectable “prequel” to Lord of the Rings. Well, that's what I hope happened, anyway.

With this in mind, remember that there is a magic shroud of “darkness” over Dol Guldur, which explains why these scenes are always dark as if night when bookend scenes are middle of the day elsewhere in Middle Earth.

• Entire prologue (Bilbo Historical) is gone.
• Tauriel is completely removed, including the Elf/Dwarf love triangle.
• Tightened-up pacing of many scenes, such as the supper scene in Bag End.
• Thorin/Azog backstory is truncated; pacing improved.
• Simplified Troll Fight scene to shorten it and move the story forward.
• Truncated Troll Parley sequence to move the story forward.
• Truncated the first Orc Chase before Rivendell scene.
• Rivendell Supper scene is truncated to move the story forward.
• Thunder Battle scene is removed entirely/cut to Goblin Caverns directly.
• Goblin Caverns scene one is massively shortened to move story forward.
• Riddles In The Dark sequence is mostly cut, trimmed into interstitials.
• Goblin Caverns scene two is shortened and truncated, Gandalf ends the scene.
• Orc Battle (burning cliff/eagles) has it’s pacing quickened.
• Eagle Flight scene is allowed it’s entirety, except for character close-ups.
• Eagle Flight itself remains intact except for character close-ups.
• Because beautiful. And music. Together.
• Race to Beorn’s home is shortened for pacing and continuity.
• (Yeah, even Jackson F'd that up.)
• Beorn extended edition material is trimmed to move the story forward.
• Beorn supper table scene is trimmed to move the story forward.
• Mirkwood sequence is removed entirely; High Fells sequence in its place.
• Woodland Realm sequence eliminated (zero Legolas; applause?)
• Barrel Riders sequence removed entirely.
• Entire Esgaroth (Laketown) sequence is removed entirely.
• (Dol Guldur sequences are in place of Woodland Realm through Esgaroth.)
• Last Light of Durin’s Day sequence is cut down to interstitial.
• Parlay with Smaug sequences have been reduced to interstitials.
• Smaug’s Fury on Laketown sequence is massively truncated.
  (Considerably more than "Erebor" version)
• All other elements between Dwarves and Dale are now interstitials.
  (Until Gandalf's return, going into Dale)
• Light versus Dark battle scenes (in Dol Guldur) have improved pacing.
• Raven Hill battle sequences reduced to interstitials.
• Azog versus Thorin fight pacing is greatly increased; sequence shortened.
• Thorin Death Scene is greatly shortened. (he dies pretty darned quickly this time)
• Epilogue (Auctioning of Bilbo’s stuff) is removed.
• Epilogue cuts to final scene of Dol Guldur; foreshadow of LOTR doom.
• All aspects of Erebor and Arcs are either removed or reduced to interstitials.
• All aspects of Radagast have been left intact, scene pacing is improved.
• All appearances of Elrond, Saruman and Galadriel are intact, council meeting, flashbacks, etc., pacing is improved.

*NOTE: All removals listed above are present in the “Erebor” version with opposite cuts from this version.

This version of The Hobbit focuses squarely on Gandalf as the protagonist and follows his encounters at Dol Guldur and with Sauron (the Necromancer). All aspects of Bilbo and Dwarves (generally) have been reduced to interstitials. Dol Guldur “Sauron” sequences are still in order, but broken-up and spread through the story to give the story a Lord of the Rings Prequel feeling by making it easier to follow the “Necromancer” story and not be distracted by the “Erebor Quest” story.

I hope this is helpful for your spreadsheet.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

Thanks. I'm still interested in doing this, but my twins are transitioning out of napping and that's really the only time I gave to do this. Plus, it seems a lot of categories are going to be ticked off of pretty much all the edits. Are there any edits that retain the love triangle, for example? The idea of this spreadsheet is to create an at-a-glance comparison of the many different edits, so it shouldn't be an exhaustive cutlist. The idea of this thread was to solicit ideas for what to include. These should be major changes such as the aforementioned love triangle, but should things that are different across the edits. It's not a helpful comparison if all the edits are doing the same things.

 

[HobbitFixer]

Thanks. I'm still interested in doing this, but my twins are transitioning out of napping and that's really the only time I gave to do this. Plus, it seems a lot of categories are going to be ticked off of pretty much all the edits. Are there any edits that retain the love triangle, for example? The idea of this spreadsheet is to create an at-a-glance comparison of the many different edits, so it shouldn't be an exhaustive cutlist. The idea of this thread was to solicit ideas for what to include. These should be major changes such as the aforementioned love triangle, but should things that are different across the edits. It's not a helpful comparison if all the edits are doing the same things.

I would think it to be general cut-list themes like you mentioned:

Legolas/Tauriel characters: yes, no, partial
Love triangle arc: yes, no, partial
White Council: yes, no, partial
Dol Guldur: yes, no, partial

...and so on.

I've actually started my fan-edit three years ago when I was able to obtain Unexpected Journey and have been slowly and patiently at it ever since. During that time my interest in fan-edits have been piqued and I have read all I a can about what others have done or intend to do and most of the cut lists often include the general memes and story arcs.

So if I were to report how my cuts work out it would be like so:

Dwarves version cuts (meaning removed entirely or as much as possible):
Tauriel/Legolas characters
Love triangle
Dol Guldur arc
All Orcs except Five Armies
Thorin exposition (first campfire scene)
Orc chase before Rivendell
Rivendell Council/Galdalf-Galadriel conversation

...and so on.

The first 'problem' would be in obtaining a list of all the fan edits, then compiling the list of what was cut, etc. I would suspect more daunting than it sounds. If you do choose to proceed with the idea I'll be happy to help in any way I can, if I can.