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the good tools --> for video editing

boon23

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Sony Vegas Pro: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Vegas (600$):
an awesome video editor. Cannot handle mpg files well nor surround sound in one file, but can create perfect surround sound and has an unlimited amount of possibilities in cutting, titling, using images, masking areas, transitions, blending, panning and cropping, etc.

Sony Vegas Movie Studio: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Vegas_Movie_Studio ($55):
a great editor for a nice price. Has a lot of the capabilities that Vegas Pro offers, just on a smaller scale. Number of video and audio tracks is much more limited. A nice way to work into the Sony family of software for an affordable price.

Womble Mpeg Video Wizard DVD: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MPEG_Video_Wizard (50$):
can be used to create awesome fanedits, but has a lot of bugs when it comes to perfection. Anything that triggers the encoder will result in a drastic decrease of image quality, but with the use of exporting to frameserve it can be used for titling and transitions as well. By itself it is THE ONLY tool with a great working smart rendering engine, which means NO LOSS in image quality when working with a source mpg file, including the capability to keep the full ac-3 surround sound.
Affordable but by far not as easy to use as it seems, if you aim for perfection.


Adobe Premiere Pro: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Adobe_Premiere_Pro ($700):
A difficult yet mighty editing tool, picky when it comes to source formats, but in combination with adobe after effects an awesome tool for fanediting in superb quality. Can do anything a faneditor can think about doing.

freeware solutions are possible, but very difficult. Avisynth http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Avisynth can do it all, but to use it you will need to study for ages.

Note that with the exception of womble ALL these editors create best quality only when using an external encoder to mpg, like CCE or TMPGxpress.
 

white43

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So, if I win the lottery, I can use the best tools..... ;)
 

boon23

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well, yes. Best quality does have its price. But it's worth it.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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lol. updated the list with Vegas Movie Studio. This is a great choice for taking advantage of the cool power of Vegas, for an affordable price. No lottery winnings needed here.
 

white43

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boon23 said:
well, yes. Best quality does have its price. But it's worth it.

Hmmmm, uh, sorry Boon, I don't have that much money, I earn peanuts as it is. I'm not sure it's the right philosophy to promote the most expensive tools - yes they have the best menus etc, but given our community is driven by the love of film and no sponsors or big studios, it means we do this with no money.

Surely we should be approaching this from the angle of best tools for the lowest price?

People will start looking for rip copies of the software with cracks, simply to get the best performance. Peer pressure.
 

boon23

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white43 said:
boon23 said:
well, yes. Best quality does have its price. But it's worth it.

Hmmmm, uh, sorry Boon, I don't have that much money, I earn peanuts as it is. I'm not sure it's the right philosophy to promote the most expensive tools - yes they have the best menus etc, but given our community is driven by the love of film and no sponsors or big studios, it means we do this with no money.

Surely we should be approaching this from the angle of best tools for the lowest price?

People will start looking for rip copies of the software with cracks, simply to get the best performance. Peer pressure.
I understand your point, BUT the thing is: these expensive tools are not comparable with anything cheaper. If you want great quality you will almost certainly have to use one of these. I did not make the prices and I cannot tell people to pay them. But I can tell what looks good and waht doesn't. What is easy to use and what isn't. And what does the job it is supposed to do and what doesn't. The cheaper programs all have major issues with image and audio quality or are extremly limited in their possibilities. If there is another great tool to be added to this list, it will of course be done.
 

white43

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I understand.

But what I feel is that a majority of people just won't be able to afford these tools and will ultimately feel that their edit is let down and judged by their use of free or cheap tools. This shouldn't be the case and I'm hoping it's not, but I have seen reviews which complain that the DVD menu is 'static' or 'not very interesting'.

We should try to move away from that - it's the edit that is important. I have TMPGENC DVD Author, it's not great - but I'm not about to part with 600 odd dollars to make a flash menu.

We want more fanedits and more faneditors - so, perhaps we should make some effort to show people how to do edits with free/cheaper tools? Even the PAL to NTSC guide uses CCE which is fairy expensive, but there is a free tool TMPGENC which can do the same thing no?

This list should be countered with - the free tools - not as good, but will get the job done. :-D
 

boon23

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you can only judge things for what they are in comparison to what else there is.
So, yes, a fanedit created with cheap tools will look cheap and will have to be judged like this. I cannot see it working any other way. A devoted person will work to get the money to buy the tools they need. Complaining about prices does not help there, because in the end quality is quality.
I absolutely don't care what tools are used to create a fanedit, I just want to be entertained by everything, starting with the DVD menu, continuing with surround sound and perfect image quality.
Tmpgenc is a nice and free encoder, but CCE is miles better. Still you can create an almost perfect encode with tmpgenc. And you can create a perfect fanedit with the combination of freeware tools (avisynth for the editing, tmpgenc for the encoding, dvdauthor for the dvd authoring).
It is pretty much the same discussion as if we were talking about computers. Can you create a perfect fanedit on a 10 years old machine? I highly doubt it, but it is probably possible. However, working with good hardware and software makes the entire process a lot easier and some people are willing to spend money for that.
...and some people spend a shitload of money and still cannot handle the great tools they bought.
 

white43

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Well, in that case, I might as well retire.

I can't afford to buy these tools, thus my fanedits will always be substandard.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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white43 said:
Well, in that case, I might as well retire.

I can't afford to buy these tools, thus my fanedits will always be substandard.


this is so not necessary, and as I have added above, you can get a great editing package, and one of the best authoring tools for around $50. Thats the Vegas Movie Studio package. I see your point, but I totally agree with boon. Some things just cant be done on freeware, and it shows. I am into the movie experience, and if it works it works. If not, then...
 

elbarto1

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I made 95% of my Running Scared edit on the $50 vegas movie studio 9 - I used Vegas Pro to render out a 5.1 ac3 file but all editing was done in the $50 version.

At the risk of sounding pompous (not my intention) decent work can be done on the cheap. and other than the audio, I'd be hard pressed for someone to notice that I used the cheap vegas to edit that film. sure it has video issues but they are present in the source as well.
 

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If it helps I would also be hard pressed if anyone can tell me what scenes in my " the Inheritors" edit I actually let womble encode with it set to "best quality"

Honestly it really all depends on what you want to do. If you are just doing simple editing then womble and other free apps will do just fine. If you need more advanced options such as overlay, and masking then you have to use one of those higher priced pieces of software, unless you spend hours doing it frame by frame in a photoshop type of program.
 

Delpheas

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Ugh, frame-by-frame is awful. I attempted to do that, I had to give up and get movie studio.
 

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Yes. I really do not like Womble that much. Its a nice thing I guess for those just getting started, but it is so limited, and has its share of bugs. I really think for the same price, that someone is way better off getting Vegas Movie Studio. Its fairly easy to get the hang of, and it has a lot of the capabilities that the full-on Vegas Pro offers.
 

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One thing also to bear in mind is that when new versions of software and hardware come out, you can sometimes get the previous, still pretty good version for much cheaper if you look around a bit.

For example, with the advent of the i7, systems containing the old quad core processors from both Intel and AMD have gotten a lot cheaper if you go to the right sources. The Phenom and the Q6600 are still more than adequate for most people.

I of course have neither. I am actually posting this via telegraph machine. I'm getting so sick of this damned morse code. :grin:
 

elbarto1

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dot dot dash dot dash dash dot dot dot dot dash :smile:
 

Gaith

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ThrowgnCpr said:
Yes. I really do not like Womble that much. Its a nice thing I guess for those just getting started, but it is so limited, and has its share of bugs. I really think for the same price, that someone is way better off getting Vegas Movie Studio. Its fairly easy to get the hang of, and it has a lot of the capabilities that the full-on Vegas Pro offers.
Would one still need Womble to fix the GOP time code errors, as detailed in ADM's guide, or is there another way to do this?
And does Vegas tend to create projects that are tens of gigs large? Because I don't have that kind of space. :)
 

ThrowgnCpr

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you would not need to fix GOP time code errors, because you wont be working with MPG. In reality, MPG is not a good format to edit, and almost all editing applications do not handle it well. Womble is the exception here (and is one of the upsides to womble).

AVI is probably the best format available for editing. Easy to work on a frame by frame basis, and every editing program can handle it well.

If space is a problem, you can encode it to DIVX to work with (with a small loss in quality) or use a lossless codec. A movie using lagarith will probably run around 25GB - 75GB depending on length. But this is probably the best option for editing. The benefits of AVI, and the benefits of no loss in quality.

For outputting, you can export directly to DVD-ready MPG (either using the Vegas rendering engine, or frameserving to something a bit better like TMPGEnc or CCE), or save to a variety of other compressed and uncompressed formats.
 

Gaith

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Hm... my comp's a bit old, with a 50G hard drive... and so far, Womble's been able to do pretty much everything I want. Maybe in a few years' time a bug-free version that produces clean exports'll be released... I hope! :)
 

ThrowgnCpr

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Gaith said:
Hm... my comp's a bit old, with a 50G hard drive... and so far, Womble's been able to do pretty much everything I want. Maybe in a few years' time a bug-free version that produces clean exports'll be released... I hope! :)

hehe, well, I am glad that womble has done what you want. But I wouldn't hold your breathe for anything more from womble ;)
 
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