The Avengers

[havok1977]

All things are subjective so don't actually think I'll persuade you on this one, but merely offer why I disagree

I'll agree that the conflict/what's at stake itself wasn't deeply-layered or complex, but it's a delicate balance and I think he chose the right path (simple over complex) and I think it was as complex as it needed to be, and if you stayed through the credits, this was obviously just the set-up for something greater.

I agree completely here, and to make get my POV across I will use a quote from this spoiler heavy article debating whether a sequel should be made - http://ifanboy.com/articles/marvels-the-avengers-do-we-really-want-a-sequel/

When I was thinking about the movie as I was falling asleep after coming home from the theater, I fought a sense of frustration that the movie wasn’t somehow more…complex, I guess. The plot structure, you’ll remember, is insanely simple — there are subplots, but they don’t amount to much and the main plot, “Loki needs to open up a portal for his invading army,” couldn’t be more basic.

But so was, “rag-tag band of rebels need to blow up planet-killing space station.”

 

[DominicCobb]

To add on to what L8 and I have already said, I think there's something easy to forget and is a big reason for the plot's incomplexity: the movie is an origin story. I know it sound weird, this is MCU film number 6, but the movie is really about getting the team together and establishing all the different character dynamics.

With that out of the way now, I think the Avengers 2 has the ability to tell a more intricate story. I just hope that if they do go with a grander narrative that they don't lose sight of the characters, something far too many recent blockbusters have done. They need to remember that it's the characters that make this film special, and allow it to stand above the rest.

 

[hebrides]

And to further add on to L8 and Dom: I think this film goes a long way towards setting up the broader world/universe in which the characters exist. If I were to name the main characteristic of that world, it would be this: nothing is as simple as it seems, and if you can count on anything, it's that someone is trying to manipulate you all the time. I think that's why Fury and Loki have essentially equivalent roles, why Iron Man and Black Widow seem so strong, and why we get a lot out of Banner/Hulk and character development in Cap. Fury and Loki are both puppet masters, and Stark and BW both thrive when they can push other people's buttons. Banner can't allow that to happen to him, so he withdraws and comes up with his "secret," which is in its own way a kind of manipulation of other people's expectations. Cap seems so out of place not just because of the new time he has to live in, but also because of the new world, where morality and good and evil aren't so clear-cut.

Reveal message

Hawkeye in this plays a role similar to that of Selvig -- they illustrate what happens when good people get manipulated and controlled. He doesn't have much more to do than that, but Whedon at least sets up broad outlines for more character development in his scenes with BW.

Thor doesn't develop much, but he doesn't need to, since his standalone film was all about that.

 

[juice4z0]

I'm thinking about going for a 3d viewing, whats better, Imax 3d or real 3d?

 

[Sunarep]

I'm thinking about going for a 3d viewing, whats better, Imax 3d or real 3d?

please try to watch it in 2d, it is a really horrible conversion and especially the opening is way too dark in 3d

 

[juice4z0]

I have seen 2d, im currently sitting in the IMAX waiting for it to start. Hopeing for a fun experience but damn 16 bucks! Thats like 4 or 5 shots at the bar

 

[juice4z0]

Just finished in imax 3d, it brought a whole different level to the movie. Maybe the real3d sucks but i must say the imax 3d was worth the extra

 

[wabid]

I saw it in 3d and want to see it in 2d now. The imax is just upscaled which means there is no extra quality. I saw it on a Sony 4k projector and it looked fine, but I am curious as to what you thought 3d added to the movie.

Also 3d still bleeds for me. I can see both frames faintly behind the combined image. It was especially noticeable behind the russian subtitles. I just don't think the polarization technology is there yet.

 

[Gaith]

Friends, fan editors, countrymen, lend me your ears... For I have come not to praise The Avengers, but to bury it.

Kidding! The Avengers is, of course, not terrible. But, it's not very good, either. Sure, it's skillfully made and entertaining... but it's also got some big problems. Since its merits are more obvious (i.e., it doesn't suck), I'll concentrate on the flaws.

- The opening sequence is a shambles: the whole SHIELD compound scene has absolutely not atmosphere, sense of dread, or anything. It's just a super-fast mish-mash in a dark lab, and when it implodes, presumably killing hundreds, nobody seems the least bit bothered, far less grieved.

- Cobie Smulders is a total blank, a female Coulson, but without any of his charm. I didn't buy her as a fast-driving badass for a moment; typecast as she is, this role cried out for a Michelle Rodriguez type, not another blandly-attrative (not too pretty, 'cause that'd be distracting) Shape Magazine cover girl.

- Speaking of which, way to put ScarJo in a skintight suit the whole movie, and not give her a single sexy moment. I know Whedon's all about feminism and stuff, but if you hire ScarJo, I'd like just a little sexy, please.

- Wait, since when does Banner know who Fury and SHIELD are? And will he ever be reunited with Betty? I frickin' love The Incredible Hulk, and don't care if it underperformed; I want resolution for its characters, dammit!

- Since so many are gushing over Ruffalo, allow me to dissent. I'm actually a big Ruffalo fan, and he gives a good performance, but I miss the perpetually haunted look in Norton's eyes. So, okay, it seems that Banner has come to terms with his curse, though he still hasn't embraced it (not at the start, anyhow). But can he still never have safe sex? Can he never have a family? Does that bother him at all, or is he totally at peace playing interntional doctor-monk? Anyone?

- I wanted a lot more of Cap adjusting to the 2010s. I guess we'll get plenty of that in Cap 2; I just hope the events of this movie don't preclude too much of it. Also, in Cap 1, everyone in the country knew his name; he was a big star. Does society know he's back? Do they still embrace him? And, wait, he's Christian? That would make sense, of course, but it comes out of nowhere, and then is completely forgotten.

- The 9/11-ish footage of candlelit vigils and memorial walls at the end was nauseating. Either spend some time on the aftermath of city-wrecking devastation, or ignore it entirely; to just reference it in passing is the worst kind of juvenile smugness.

- Just what is SHIELD, anyway? Prior to this movie, I assumed it was an American outfit reporting to the American president, and when this movie went into production, I wished that they'd film a cameo with Fury and President Obama... the real Obama, that is. But now it's some sort of international organization, with the authority to authorize nuclear strikes on American soil? What the hell?

- Look, I'm as much of a peacenik as the next guy, but I find Stark's comparing SHIELD's weapons-related research with the Cold War to be absurd. There, we knew who we were dealing with (fellow humans, and WWII allies), and what (nukes, which we developed first). Here, the heroes (especially Cap) have no idea what evil lurks beyond our world, and what weapons it wields. So, damn right, defensive research is warranted.

- Hey, look, a single nuke, landing on the enemy exterior can single-handedly disable the Trade Federation starship, and deactivate the battle droids! The Gungan army is saved, huzzah! ... Uh, yeah.


In short, I'm worried that this series (which I do love) is becoming too epic, too grandiose, and too detached from any reality whatsoever. Smallville, for instance, started out great, but eventually the sky-high unacknowledged death toll in a single small town became both ludicrous and kind of twisted, and too much otherworldly mumbo-jumbo (from the Krypton-portal caves, and multiple alien villains and prophecies and the like) drowned out any sense of plausible human drama. I'm glad that we'll be getting IM3 and CA2 and even Thor 2 before another Avengers; maybe that'll allow things to cool down a bit before the next big bad teased at this movie's end starts turning everything all the way up to 11 again. Because these characters are just too interesting to be squandered on Transformers-style punch-ups like this.

Iron Man: A-
The Incredible Hulk: A-
Iron Man 2: A-
Thor: B
Captain America: B+
The Avengers: B

 

[FoolsFollowing]

Yup pretty much disagree with every one of your criticisms

I thought the opening was brilliant, very enjoyable.
The female agent was a bit of a non-entity, but I don't think every character has to be an entity. We had enough going on without having to give every speaking character a backstory.

Scarlett Johanson could be peeling potatoes and my god it would be sexy. I don't normally care about appearances, like at all. I never understand audiences who go to see a film because 'x is hot'. The one exception to this rule is Ms johanson, I simply find her hypnotic. So fully disagree on her not having sexy moments... did you see her take out like 5 russian agents with a chair?? Good god.

The Cap in the 20th C stuff will be released on the DVD and can be reinserted. Personally I was happy with the length of the film and the amount of time every character got, plus I thought Chris Evans had a sense of sadness about him that really made the character sympathetic. I thought the God line was perfectly in character and not at all preachy (as some people have interpreted it). Plus I am *so* happy that the film wasn't given any tacked on 'love subplots'. We had the nicely understated development of Hawkeye and Black Widow and some great scenes with Gwyneth Paltrow: as far as I'm concerned, that amount of development/screentime is perfect! Not every movie about every person's life ever made HAS to involve them meeting the love of their life; in fact this is the only aspect of the Captain America deleted scenes that I am concerned about. The waitress that gives him a knowing look stood out in the film but I will wait and see how their relationship is developed in the film. Hopefully like everything else it will be subtle and not horrible.

Regarding SHIELD, I am really glad they have gone down the route of making it a bit shady/ominious. Basically the idea of an agency that is all seeing all knowing and all powerful is a bit scary, so to have a film which is like 'yay SHIELD will save us!' would be a bit naive and uncomfrotable to watch. Personally I never got the feeling that they would 'report to the president', there's been something shifty about them from the start and I think this film really brought that aspect out wonderfully.

The two points you make that I do agree with are in regards to the 911-esq ending and the weapons.

While I have no issue with the 911-ness of the ending, I did feel that the outcome was a bit simplistic. New york had just been attacked leaving the city flattened and thousands dead, yet the ending was all like 'Yay Avengers!!'. Given the scale of the attack I do think a bit of a more mournful ending would have been appropriate. But I don't think this is a huge problem, the film contained enough darkness and complexity in other parts for me to let this one slide.

Secondly, I think you're right about the weapons situation being maybe a bit too simple. The message is simply big weapons = bad, superheroes = good. I guess the theme of the movie is one of humanity, having weapons of mass destruction, while a good deterent, is simply more inhuman than the idea of a bunch of superheroes who can deal with every single conflict one-on-one and bring their judgement and sense of compassion to every situation. But lets not forget what the film is: It's about a bunch of superheroes getting together to save the world. The level of realism and real-world politics that it can use is minimal, even Batman has a level of sophistication and realism that this film would simply be incapable of exploring given its subject matter. Instead they went for a fun blockbuster film, but one which has a focus on intelligent characterisation and does still hint at darkness and complexity.

Basically I thought the film was about the best that it could be. But I am also looking forward to the deleted scenes, the thought of the film actually being 'even better' is something I find inconceivable but it will be awesome to find out.

 

[T-HOPE]

please try to watch it in 2d, it is a really horrible conversion and especially the opening is way too dark in 3d

I agree. Go for 2D. They only have the 3D version here. But the space scenes are way too dark. And there's no special 3D or at least something that stuck out.

 

[bondukkevin]

I agree. Go for 2D. They only have the 3D version here. But the space scenes are way too dark. And there's no special 3D or at least something that stuck out.

I opted for the 2D option, primarily just don't like 3D especially if done in post like this one was. Looks great in 2D.

 

[Sunarep]

wow disney's and marvel's hands must hurt from all the high fiving... 1 billion dollar mark already crushed

 

[bondukkevin]

wow disney's and marvel's hands must hurt from all the high fiving... 1 billion dollar mark already crushed

Wonder if will beat Avatar or Titanic?

May just sit at 3rd highest grossing film of all time?

 

[g1orkatsos]

I wont argue about Titanic's place but Avatar does not deserve those ridiculous high earnings and the no1 spot.

 

[Sunarep]

I wont argue about Titanic's place but Avatar does not deserve those ridiculous high earnings and the no1 spot.

i doubt it will reach either, the movie is immensely successful but super front loaded so I doubt that it will reach 2 bill

 

[DominicCobb]

The thing with Titanic and Avatar is they faced very little competition. They were still out during the always sh*tty Jan/Feb/Mar months. For that period of time, Titanic/Avatar was the only movie in theaters worth seeing. The Avengers is a summer release, so, no matter how much people like it, business will start to wane sooner rather than later due simply to the fact that there will be other blockbusters out there. In the end, I think the Avengers has a chance at passing Titanic domestically. Anything else is unlikely.

 

[Uncanny Antman]

I wont argue about Titanic's place but Avatar does not deserve those ridiculous high earnings and the no1 spot.

The tickets got sold, it earned that place. Who ever said the #1 movie had to be the best movie ever made?

 

[g1orkatsos]

The tickets got sold, it earned that place. Who ever said the #1 movie had to be the best movie ever made?

I am not saying that it didn't earn that place (and i thought it was an OK movie, but not the masterpiece everyone claimed to be) but stuff like this:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-11/...blues_1_pandora-depressed-posts?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ
and this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suicidal-able-visit-utopian-alien-planet.html
Made me really dislike its huge success... I mean seriously?

 

[reave]

People were really deeply touched by Dances with Smurfs.

But let's talk about Avengers. Any more reviews? I'm busy as shit and won't be able to go until the weekend.

Also, someone told me I should do a fresh viewing of The Incredible Hulk before going. Would anyone who's seen Avengers confirm that as a good idea?