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SUPERMAN THE MOVIE: THE "DONNER" & WRAITH CUTS - SHOOTING SCRIPTS BASED - 3 edits

I watched both the Wraith and the Epic Cuts, and generally liked both, but there were a few issues I thought might be better to bring up here and not in a review. Some are issues I had with Superman 2: Donner Cut and hoped would be addressed at least in the WC, if not the EC, and some are technical.

Wraith Cut:
I loved the vision and the added materials (video and music). However, I felt that keeping the second diner scene did disservice to Superman's character. I know it's in the S2DC, but it happens after Superman turned back time and effectively erased the events of the previous days - including the first encounter with the bully. The result is that Clark essentially bullies a man without provocation.

Generally, I indeed prefer the way S2DC avoided the Super-Kiss as a way of erasing Lois's memories, but making the Earth spin in the wrong direction makes zero sense to me. Maybe there is a way to show Superman flying really fast around the Earth and then somehow repurposing some scene where he flies through a tunnel of light to symbolize the time travel? It is a terrible plot device (because it undoes much of the film), but at least it will be less horrible scientifically?

I also felt that the beginning was a bit out of order - sending Kal-El should be the last thing Jor-El does before the explosion, I think. The trial of Zod and his posse should take place before that, when the crisis is not imminent (why send them to the Phantom Zone if the entire planet is going to explode?).

Technical issues:
I had two issues with the sound. The first was at the 00:02:15 mark - my speakers suddenly stopped working, and I lost audio for the film. Only by restarting the video and skipping past 00:02:18 was I able to hear the audio.
The second issue was at the 00:40:33 mark - after saying "Truth, Justice" the audio disappears for two seconds and then returns.

I also had a minor issue with the text at the bottom right corner, indicating the source of each scene. It felt like watching a workprint and not a proper edit.

Woof, that came out long. Again, generally I really liked this edit, and I know it is your vision (so I'm sure you considered the plot issues I brought up). So - Well done! If you can fix the technical issues, I would love to know.

Oh, and regarding the Epic Cut - very impressive and highly enjoyable. I had the same issues with the narrative (that Ending...), and one technical issue - at the 00:35:53 there was a very weird wipe-like transition when Clark kneels in the barn.

Cheers,
Bo
 
Always hard at work aren't you? this looks amazing, i have a few superman edits, a couple more couldn't hurt!. ;)
 
You would think that one of the 19 Superman edits I have would satisfy me...LOL, soon to be 20 With Superman II Extended...and with these 23....
The Deja Vu Cut and Man of Steel Remastered are my faves...
 
boazz750 said:
I watched both the Wraith and the Epic Cuts, and generally liked both, but there were a few issues I thought might be better to bring up here and not in a review. Some are issues I had with Superman 2: Donner Cut and hoped would be addressed at least in the WC, if not the EC, and some are technical.

Wraith Cut:
I loved the vision and the added materials (video and music). However, I felt that keeping the second diner scene did disservice to Superman's character. I know it's in the S2DC, but it happens after Superman turned back time and effectively erased the events of the previous days - including the first encounter with the bully. The result is that Clark essentially bullies a man without provocation.

Generally, I indeed prefer the way S2DC avoided the Super-Kiss as a way of erasing Lois's memories, but making the Earth spin in the wrong direction makes zero sense to me. Maybe there is a way to show Superman flying really fast around the Earth and then somehow repurposing some scene where he flies through a tunnel of light to symbolize the time travel? It is a terrible plot device (because it undoes much of the film), but at least it will be less horrible scientifically?

I also felt that the beginning was a bit out of order - sending Kal-El should be the last thing Jor-El does before the explosion, I think. The trial of Zod and his posse should take place before that, when the crisis is not imminent (why send them to the Phantom Zone if the entire planet is going to explode?).

Technical issues:
I had two issues with the sound. The first was at the 00:02:15 mark - my speakers suddenly stopped working, and I lost audio for the film. Only by restarting the video and skipping past 00:02:18 was I able to hear the audio.
The second issue was at the 00:40:33 mark - after saying "Truth, Justice" the audio disappears for two seconds and then returns.

I also had a minor issue with the text at the bottom right corner, indicating the source of each scene. It felt like watching a workprint and not a proper edit.

Woof, that came out long. Again, generally I really liked this edit, and I know it is your vision (so I'm sure you considered the plot issues I brought up). So - Well done! If you can fix the technical issues, I would love to know.

Oh, and regarding the Epic Cut - very impressive and highly enjoyable. I had the same issues with the narrative (that Ending...), and one technical issue - at the 00:35:53 there was a very weird wipe-like transition when Clark kneels in the barn.

Cheers,
Bo
Click to expand...
FIRST, massive thanks for pointing those tech glitches. I will go back in and re-render. (Lord knows how that wipe got in there).
Regarding the bullying at the diner, you are spot on. I will remove that as well. Makes perfect sense.

The issue with the trip to earth and THEN the trial, is realy coz I wanted to open with the V.O. and sending them to the Zone protects the universe (in theory)...

Apart from that, I will post here when the replacements are up.
 
boazz750 said:
Glad to be of service :)
Click to expand...
REPORT BACK.

Wraith Edit

I can find no obvious trigger to the issue at 2:15. I have played the file, and I can't replicate the error either.
At 40.38 after "truth and justice" the audio is continuous. I did remove "American way" and replaced it with the music, so the score runs continuously. I can find no audio drop. I had to remove that part of the line coz it was to nationalistic and "truth and justice" are universal desires and rights. It jarred on me way back in theatres, so I fixed it.

I'd elected to leave the bar room scene in coz Donner did. The main reason is a cresendo finale is needed and the alternative is to use Lester's "flying in with the flagpole" and it's too jingoistic. Plus, Superman has flaws as we see from his chat with Jor-el, so I'm happy to live with that flaw for the sake of flow and build up to the final fly by BUT, I tested it, and I think it works without the scene. I agree with the logic for removing and I will remove the scene from the Wraith and Epic edits. It's a clumsy plothole otherwise.

EPIC
35.33 Odd wipe. This is a bizarre one. The transition is in the text file not the video, but it impact the video. Very very odd. I will correct it and re-render. Even more bizarrely, the wipe issue does not occur in the Superman Donner cut. The bar room scene will also be removed however.

I will note when they have been update and been re-rendered.

Thanks again for you detailed comments.
 
Left you a review (or rather a 'puff piece') for the Donner Cut. Good job.
 
Zarius said:
Left you a review (or rather a 'puff piece') for the Donner Cut. Good job.
Click to expand...
Hey, THANKS!

But you know what, all feedback is welcome even a "puff piece"...which frankly, it's not IMO. You told it how it was and validation for an editor (as you know) is just as important as constructive or technical comments since they re-enforces the intent and drive behind the work. Thus, more such pieces of work may follow in time from me and others. So thanks !
 
Thanks. Pointing out technicalities I feel, while necessary at times, isn't something I like to dwell on so much, I'm all about the creativity and expression and driving home that editor's passion to whoever may be reading the review.
 
NP

BY THE WAY ALL, the removal of the diner scene ending with Lois saying "you are really super",, she types "Superman take day off!" and the crescendo fanfare build to Superman flying is GREAT!!!

Thanks Boazz750
 
boazz750 said:
I watched both the Wraith and the Epic Cuts, and generally liked both, but there were a few issues I thought might be better to bring up here and not in a review. Some are issues I had with Superman 2: Donner Cut and hoped would be addressed at least in the WC, if not the EC, and some are technical.

Wraith Cut:
I loved the vision and the added materials (video and music). However, I felt that keeping the second diner scene did disservice to Superman's character. I know it's in the S2DC, but it happens after Superman turned back time and effectively erased the events of the previous days - including the first encounter with the bully. The result is that Clark essentially bullies a man without provocation.

Generally, I indeed prefer the way S2DC avoided the Super-Kiss as a way of erasing Lois's memories, but making the Earth spin in the wrong direction makes zero sense to me. Maybe there is a way to show Superman flying really fast around the Earth and then somehow repurposing some scene where he flies through a tunnel of light to symbolize the time travel? It is a terrible plot device (because it undoes much of the film), but at least it will be less horrible scientifically?

I also felt that the beginning was a bit out of order - sending Kal-El should be the last thing Jor-El does before the explosion, I think. The trial of Zod and his posse should take place before that, when the crisis is not imminent (why send them to the Phantom Zone if the entire planet is going to explode?).

Technical issues:
I had two issues with the sound. The first was at the 00:02:15 mark - my speakers suddenly stopped working, and I lost audio for the film. Only by restarting the video and skipping past 00:02:18 was I able to hear the audio.
The second issue was at the 00:40:33 mark - after saying "Truth, Justice" the audio disappears for two seconds and then returns.

I also had a minor issue with the text at the bottom right corner, indicating the source of each scene. It felt like watching a workprint and not a proper edit.

Woof, that came out long. Again, generally I really liked this edit, and I know it is your vision (so I'm sure you considered the plot issues I brought up). So - Well done! If you can fix the technical issues, I would love to know.

Oh, and regarding the Epic Cut - very impressive and highly enjoyable. I had the same issues with the narrative (that Ending...), and one technical issue - at the 00:35:53 there was a very weird wipe-like transition when Clark kneels in the barn.

Cheers,
Bo
Click to expand...
I'm loving the new ending....Thanks again.
 
Wraith said:
I can find no obvious trigger to the issue at 2:15. I have played the file, and I can't replicate the error either.
At 40.38 after "truth and justice" the audio is continuous. I did remove "American way" and replaced it with the music, so the score runs continuously. I can find no audio drop. I had to remove that part of the line coz it was to nationalistic and "truth and justice" are universal desires and rights. It jarred on me way back in theatres, so I fixed it.
Click to expand...
Regarding 2:15 - That is so odd. When I use VLC (3.0.12 Vetinari) it happens every time after the sentence "as your life will be seen through mine". The audio just drops completely, never to be see- heard again. Unless, of course, I restart it and skip that bit. However, when I use BSPlayer there is no issue at all. Any thoughts?
Regarding 40:38 - I agree that the audio is continuous, but the close-up on Supe's face creates the feeling that something is missing. I suggest trimming that close up and following "Truth and Justice" directly with Lois's response. If that is possible, I mean.
 
boazz750 said:
Regarding 2:15 - That is so odd. When I use VLC (3.0.12 Vetinari) it happens every time after the sentence "as your life will be seen through mine". The audio just drops completely, never to be see- heard again. Unless, of course, I restart it and skip that bit. However, when I use BSPlayer there is no issue at all. Any thoughts?
Regarding 40:38 - I agree that the audio is continuous, but the close-up on Supe's face creates the feeling that something is missing. I suggest trimming that close up and following "Truth and Justice" directly with Lois's response. If that is possible, I mean.
Click to expand...
I played around with it...scoring does not lend itself to it..plus its a medium continuous shot and Lois's line comes straight after in the same shot. Removing the line and holding the shot would create a jump visually hence dropping in the close up to disguise the removal. The audio can work fine but Lois immediately begins to walk away too, so any other disguising would then mean cutting back and she would be in a different position. I also tried to just remove the line holding the shot, but again, Lois's head moves slightly and that also creates a visual jump. I can't think of a way to bring her reaction closer. The audio is not the issue...its the single shot and her moving that is. If anyone has a suggestion, I'm open to it, but the line goes...
 
Last edited:
REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE
 
Superman: The Movie - The Donner Cut seems to have been removed from IFDB.
 
It’s being updated. The artwork was wrong.
Should be “Donner”, not Donner
 
It’s back up now...
All sorted
 
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