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Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi

TV's Frink

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The Scribbling Man said:
Edit: This may be better in the Last Jedi ideas thread, but I'll leave that up to the moderators.

Nope, you're good. :)
 

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A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

https://thelovepirate.net/2017/12/2...r-filled-thoughts-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Favorite bits:

The reality is, I could easily be one of those angry white men on the internet, writing petitions calling for The Last Jedi to be stricken from the Star Wars canon. But I’m not. As much as Luke Skywalker means to me personally, I don’t own him, nor do I own Star Wars. No one is under any obligation to make the movie I want. But beyond that, I’m not so arrogant to assume that the vision I had in my head for how Luke’s story should go is either the best or the most meaningful story for the character. Nor is my sense of masculinity so fragile or toxic for me to feel threatened that the supreme white, male hero of Star Wars was “sidelined” or “made a pussy” while women and people of color got bigger, more overtly heroic roles.

There’s an entitlement generally in fandoms that really frustrates me, a demand to only be given the stories that “I” want, without any thought for artistic vision or a message worth telling. But it’s compounded by sexism and racism in a way that is horrifying. You don’t have to scroll very far in threads complaining about The Last Jedi to find people complaining about “SJWs” at Disney who are more interested in pushing feminism and diversity than in honoring the white male heroes that are so important to these jackasses. If you can’t stand the idea of women and people of color taking over your favorite series, then just stop going to the movies. Diversity is not only societally important but it’s the wave of the future and it makes money. My message to those claiming The Last Jedi “ruined” Star Wars is: It’s not about you. None of this is about you. You don’t “deserve” to have the story told your way. You’re perfectly entitled to dislike the movie, and even loudly proclaim that opinion. But you have in no way been wronged by the movie, and no one owes it to you to either listen or to fix it. Get over yourself.

But also (more related to the movie itself):

So we’re left with a broken Luke Skywalker, who in his failure has removed himself from the galaxy and closed himself off from the Force. It’s what he thinks is safest for everyone, and he blames himself for Ben’s fall just as Yoda and Obi-Wan blamed themselves for the fall of Anakin and the Republic. The Last Jedi is all about what it really means to be a hero, and Luke’s story fits right into that. He may not be a villain, but his bitterness and withdrawal leave him as a hero in need of redemption. Rey takes him most of the way there, awakening his interest and his connection with the galaxy. R2-D2 reminds him of the necessity of hope, of believing that things can get better if we fight for them, rather than just vowing to do nothing to make them worse. Chewie busts his door down to get his attention. And Yoda gives him the kick in the pants he needs to choose a different path, rather than double down on his condemnation of the Jedi and his desire to end it.

In fact, Yoda’s appearance doubles as a message to Luke and a message to the audience. Luke Skywalker is not the most important man in the universe. As the “Last Jedi”, Luke felt that everything rested on his shoulders. He felt the responsibility to murder Ben, even if only for a moment, in order to save the galaxy. He removed himself from the equation for the same reason, so that he wouldn’t be the cause of any more suffering. He refused to train Rey, despite her already knowing so much, to avoid repeating his mistakes. But Yoda reminds him that we learn from our failures and Luke has one more lesson to learn. He’s not the center of the universe, just one of many pieces. And in fact, his time is coming to an end. “We are what they grow beyond,” Yoda tells Luke, meaning that Rey, and the others, will take his place. Luke’s death would not be the end of the Jedi, any more than Leia’s will be the end of the Rebellion, because we have new heroes capable of leading the way, making their own mistakes, learning from them and becoming better. Yoda even takes the choice of burning the Jedi books away from Luke, calling down a lightning strike on the tree in order, I believe, to cover Rey’s theft of them. Yoda has seen his generation be replaced by Luke’s and knows that it wasn’t the end, and he’s going to get Luke to that revelation no matter how many times he has to whack him with his cane.
 

Gaith

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TVs Frink said:
A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

I like and agree with a lot of that post, but I have a few quibbles:


If you can’t stand the idea of women and people of color taking over your favorite series, then just stop going to the movies. Diversity is not only societally important but it’s the wave of the future and it makes money. [...]
Luke’s death would not be the end of the Jedi, any more than Leia’s will be the end of the Rebellion, because we have new heroes capable of leading the way, making their own mistakes, learning from them and becoming better.

I'm all for diversity, but to me, there's something hollow about cheering the movie for the diversity of its actors' ethnicities and prominent female roles, while the movie itself is so casual and disinterested about the losses our heroes incur. Ackbar dies, and gets mentioned exactly once. Entire transports of Resistance fighters get blown up, but we're never given reason to care. For all the (inoffensively offscreen) Resistance deaths in this movie, we end up with Snoke and Phasma subtracted from the character list ported over from TFA, and Rose added - in other words, we finish the movie with the balance of onscreen Resistance heroes increased from the start of the movie. There's so little danger to our Hero characters that Rose can rescue Finn and have a semi-romantic moment with him despite being in the direct line of fire of half a dozen walkers, with no other targets around. And then, after being told all movie that there's more Resistance fighters in the Outer Rim (who maybe didn't just have time to get to Salt Hoth for a Big Damn Heroes rescue) the movie ends with the promise of plenty more potential Jedi younglings all over the galaxy. Which I'm fine with in-universe, but it also means we don't end on an emotional gut punch the way ESB does. ESB is so fondly remembered in large part because it dares to go with a downer ending. TLJ, OTOH, ends with two pep talks for the audience, one from Luke, and one from the camera/narrator.

In other words, Johnson had an opportunity to break new ground in a Star Wars movie by taking significant screen time to mourn the freshly dead, to show our heroes feeling real despair and panic, and maybe even sacrificing a Finn or a Poe or a Rose or Leia. (Given that Luke is pretty much useless for most of the movie, I don't see his loss as a big one, storytelling-wise.) Instead, Rose loses a sister but gains a love interest, and despite all the Resistance losses, things don't seem much worse than they started out. (And Maz is getting shot at, but hey, it's no big deal, she can crack jokes and have a side conversation, whatevs!) As a result, much of the movie feels cheap and lazy to me.


I want Rey to be capable of forgiving Kylo Ren because forgiveness should be a part of the Jedi way, and I don’t have a problem with the eventual redemption of Kylo Ren should it happen one day. But I’m glad they didn’t take the easy, predictable way out. Kylo Ren revealed his true colors, Rey learned not to be too trusting and naïve, and they parted ways still as enemies.

Uh, how is Kylo still being a horrible person and a power-hungry murderer not the "easy, predictable way out"? Who in the audience thought for even half a moment that he'd repent and be redeemed in the first half of Part Two, leaving himself, Rey, Luke and Leia free to team up against a Snoke-free First Order? The character is introduced in TFA as a school shooter, so how are his "true colors" not already revealed? I never once thought he'd be redeemed without either instantly dying or turning good after Luke and Leia follow Han to the grave, because otherwise there'd have to be a scene in which they'd demand to know how Snoke seduced him to the Dark Side/why he chose to embrace evil, and who among us thinks Abrams or Johnson or anyone else at Lucasfilm actually has an answer to that? Not even a satisfying answer, mind you, but any answer beyond maybe "eh, Snoke mind-raped him, it wasn't really his fault, never mind." Or, maybe, "hey, it was a freak accident of genetics, and nobody's fault at all, just a big of bad luck." I'll be shocked if TPTB have had an answer for why Ben Solo had so much darkness in him beyond "eh, we needed a new baddie for our new trilogy, and thought it'd be all rhymey and stuff if it were Han and Leia's kid."

And, despite Luke recoiling in fear from Rey's insouciance about the Dark Side, she's pretty much saintly throughout, and never uses the Dark Side like Luke himself did (to no great thematic significance, granted) in Jabba's palace. So Kylo is still horribly evil, and Rey still awesomely good, throughout. Seems to me the definition of "easy, predictable" storytelling. Of the two daring options presented by that narrative fork (Kylo maybe turning good, and Rey maybe turning bad), the movie takes neither. ESB shocked the audience by revealing Vader as Luke's father. What audience shock is there in TLJ?
 

TM2YC

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I watched this again on a family outing over Christmas and I (almost) loved it.

On a second viewing the weak points seems much less weak and the good parts are even better. I think with some of the awkward humour gone, some pacing issues fixed (with scenes re-sequenced, removed and trimmed in the middle act) and the runtime cut back, I believe this can be a better a film than TFA (and I loved TFA).

I cannot fathom people actually hating it but everybody is entitled to their opinion :) .
 

TV's Frink

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On another forum today (not OT somehow) there was someone saying that they're no longer a fan of Star Wars because of TLJ.  I'm all like "ok you hated it but surely you still enjoy the OT" and he's all like "nope all Star Wars sucks because of this movie."

People continue to baffle me.  I should put my consciousness into a computer or something.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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TVs Frink said:
TVs Frink said:
I should put my consciousness into a computer or something.

DONE

I see the upload didn’t take long. Well, perhaps longer than I expected. Are you on dial-up?

Just in case not obvious:  :p
 

ThrowgnCpr

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I look forward to posts from our new moderator: TVS FRINK COMPUTER

*screams porg call*
 

TV's Frink

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Moe_Syzlak said:
Just in case

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

OF COURSE COMMA I SEE EVERYTHING EVERYONE DOES HERE
 

TV's Frink

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ITS CUTE HOW YOU THINK YOU HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER
 

Neglify

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tenor.gif


Not this lame shtick again.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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I haven’t watched this yet (its long), but these guys are usually entertaining. I’m sure there’s NSFW language and, of course, spoilers within. 

 

DigModiFicaTion

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Rule of thumb, if you haven't watched it and it has NSFW content, it's not a good idea to post it. This was a major issue in the not so distant past.
Honestly, if you haven't spent time watching it, asking others to is a bit odd.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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F
DigModiFicaTion said:
Rule of thumb, if you haven't watched it and it has NSFW content, it's not a good idea to post it. This was a major issue in the not so distant past.
Honestly, if you haven't spent time watching it, asking others to is a bit odd.

Huh, we’re all quite familiar with the Red Media guys’ content I would think. I gave plenty of info on it, but for a community like this, alerting to its release I felt was a community service.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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That's fine, I'm just referencing some past material that was posted and later taken down due to its content.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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DigModiFicaTion said:
That's fine, I'm just referencing some past material that was posted and later taken down due to its content.

Yes, in almost every case, I would agree with you. RLM videos should be relatively safe. I've been meaning to watch that episode of Half in the Bag.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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A little porg-mellows with your cocoa anyone? I hear it's Chewbacca's drink of choice this season.

26025734_1748535968531330_7030911875362999651_o.jpg
 

ranger613

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Moe_Syzlak said:
I haven’t watched this yet (its long), but these guys are usually entertaining. I’m sure there’s NSFW language and, of course, spoilers within. 


RLM-- my favorite channel!  :)  I agree with them completely with this one actually, hence my desire to attempt an edit
 
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