• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot. More details on our policies, especially our Own the Source rule are available here. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Favorite Edit of the Year (FEOTY) Nominations for 2020 are now open! Submit your entries here.

Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi

The Scribbling Man

Tenant of the Tower of Flints
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
2,836
Reaction score
232
Trophy Points
93
ssj said:
... there were at least a couple nods to kurosawa... snoke's throneroom. starwarsy in front, kagemusha-like in the back.

Barely related: Kagemusha is an excellent film. 

I've said my bit now. You can get back to Star Wars.
 

ssj

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
3,883
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
53
matrixgrindhouse said:
Auralnauts never cease to entertain.  There are spoilers within.


that was entertaining. and the last few seconds were quite special, too.
 

DigModiFicaTion

DᴉმWoqᴉԷᴉcɑꓕᴉou
Staff member
Faneditor
Messages
5,626
Reaction score
290
Trophy Points
133
Masirimso17 said:
Had a meme but couldn’t get it to work for some reason. I’ll get to it later

Here you go (shudders)
3_A74_E553_74_FA_4343_8477_E32_BF2_AFA63_F_zpsq7tbzpvi.jpg


You need to "open image in new tab" to make sure you get the image address not the page address. Then, since it was photo bucket, you need to download it and upload it to a free hoster (Which I did for you against my better judgement).
 

Masirimso17

Well-known member
Faneditor
Cover Artist
Messages
1,872
Reaction score
11
Trophy Points
68
I
DigModiFicaTion said:
Masirimso17 said:
Had a meme but couldn’t get it to work for some reason. I’ll get to it later

You need to "open image in new tab" to make sure you get the image address not the page address. Then, since it was photo bucket, you need to download it and upload it to a free hoster (Which I did for you against my better judgement).

For context I also wrote “me and @"ThrowgnCpr" be like:” you know, Puffins? Porgs? Well, in hindsight maybe it wasn’t funny but whatever. Was it that bad Digi that I made you shudder :p?

Thought photobucket was free already, usually works for me. However this time I couldn’t make it work from mobile.

Eh, whatever :D
 

ssj

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
3,883
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
53
ThrowgnCpr said:
^ all this. And he was definitely thinking about donuts. I often go into donut stare...

true. i don't think he had a proper donut for years on that island.
____________

i'm hoping rey goes to the dark side in episode ix.
without redemption.
 

DigModiFicaTion

DᴉმWoqᴉԷᴉcɑꓕᴉou
Staff member
Faneditor
Messages
5,626
Reaction score
290
Trophy Points
133
Masirimso17 said:
Was it that bad Digi that I made you shudder :p?
Yes, it involved porgs...
Masi said:
Thought photobucket was free already, usually works for me. However this time I couldn’t make it work from mobile.

You must have missed the whole photobucket charging for 3rd party image hosting that happened some time ago. They are the new Empire of image hosting. Resist!
 

ssj

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
3,883
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
53
Masirimso17 said:
ssj said:
i'm hoping rey goes to the dark side in episode ix.
without redemption.

Why though?

because she has the supreme leader "it" factor. i can sense it in her.
 

Gothamknight

Well-known member
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
16
theryaney said:
But do you understand the context?

What's "context"? ( :dodgy: )

Had [Poe, Finn and Rose] not gone to Canto Bight and trusted DJ, Holdo’s plan for escape without the knowledge of the First Order would have worked. This subplot adds so much dimension to Poe’s, Finn’s and Rose’s characters.

So to enable the Resistance remnant to get where they're going, Rian Johnson has to write three major characters as stupid?  And in your mind, "so much dimension to [their] characters" = a hearty helping of stupid...?  Cuz that's the only dimension that was shown to us.  Now Rose by herself had more substance than that - but in the context of the new trilogy's storyline, her character is nonetheless useless and shoehorned into things, when Johnson should have been focused on adding real development to the already existing characters.

As far as Holdo's grand plan, why not pull a so-called "rhyme" from The Empire Strikes Back: just as Boba Fett figured out where the Millennium Falcon was headed, and jumped ahead of them to Cloud City - there's no reason that part of the FO navy, or a paid informant, couldn't likewise have sussed out the Resistance's destination and leaked it to the FO.

There you go: as a nonprofessional I just came up with a superior storytelling device to what Johnson offered.

[Canto Bites] shows the galaxy around, diversity, other people, character development for Finn and Rose, how they are not just fighters, they can be peaceful and happy, and we also see them fail. That is what they accomplish. The experience of choosing bad mistakes.

(1) As stated previously, by myself and others: remove this entire subplot and the outcome within this one film, along with the whole new trilogy storyline, remains unchanged.  Ergo: dumb subplot.  (2) Look again at what is commonly viewed as the best of all SW films: TESB.  Failure is also a major theme of that movie - yet the storytelling was so, so much better, and unfailingly(!) entertaining.

You and other TLJ apologists need to understand something: the camp I'm in doesn't have an issue with failure as a theme.  What we have an issue with is sloppy, uninteresting storytelling.

You can just think about it a little, and you'll understand.

Dude, that's a really elitist, unnecessary comment.  Assuming that the critics "aren't thinking" is, ironically, a failure of thought on your part.

Yeah, [Holdo] could have told Poe what the plan was, but she doesn’t have to if she doesn’t want to.

A more interesting - and useful - subplot would have been to include some scenes in which Dameron inadvertently, because of circumstances he can't control, gives a few officers the impression that he might just be a traitor-informant.  This would (a) create tension and suspense for the audience, since we ourselves wouldn't know the truth of the matter at that point, and (b) give Holdo a perfectly sensible reason to keep mum about her escape plan.

"There you go" #2: I just came up with a superior way of getting TLJ to the same ultimate destination.

But it makes Poe's story better, expands his character, shows us his leadership as well as cockiness.

No, dude, it doesn't.  It makes him a twit.  He was fun and admirable in TFA, but merely a twit in TLJ.

It's like Luke leaving Dagobah early. He could've stayed and trained more to be powerful, but he fell into a trap by Vader.

Ah, I'm glad you referenced TESB again: that writing of Luke's character was superior to the portrayal of Poe in TLJ.  Why?  Because in context the audience could understand and sympathize with the overwhelming pull Luke felt to try and save his friends.  It was a bad choice on Luke's part, with a nearly tragic outcome - yet the same time not so "out there" as to make Luke appear just plain stupid, or to lose the audience's sympathy.

In Poe's case, though he's not a Force-user, he's nonetheless a military veteran, more mature, and has already proved to have a good head on his shoulders.  Therefore TFA leads you to expect better of him - and then TLJ foolishly detonates that expectation.


TMBTM said:
In the end I'm feeling that THE main understandable problem that people have with this movie that I can understand (not agree with but understand) is about the death of Luke.

I fully expected him to die either in this instalment or Ep9 - but was disappointed by the sleight-of-hand way he died.  If his situation had been better written so that there was a good reason for him to remain on "Ireland" (I don't remember the planet's name), and he had to come up with an alternative way of helping the Resistance, then I wouldn't have minded the Force-projection idea so much.  But as I was sitting there in the theater, believing that Luke was really there and using the Force to overcome the FO's bombardment, I was thrilled to think that, this time, "the gloves were off" and we were now gonna see the super-Jedi we'd all been waiting for.  So to find out moments later that it was just an illusion was really disappointing; took me emotionally right out of the scene.

Especially when the Force-projection resulted in Luke's apparent death.  Boiling it down: the script sets up the audience to be THRILLED with Luke's climactic appearance and Force-prowess - and then STEALS that thrill by dumbing down what's actually happening.  And you can argue all you want about how "it takes monumental power to project onself with the Force, blah-blah-blah" - but I'm sorry: it's just not a thrill.  Especially when a thrill seemed to be in the offing and then was yanked away.

How much more moving would have been if, say, Luke had previously been severely injured and was in a coma, so that you think he's down for the count - and in that type of circumstance he mounts a Force-projection that allows the Resistance to escape.  Yeah, THAT would've been cool in that sort of context, but not the way TLJ actually did it.


Canon Editor said:
Exactly, TVs Frink.  That is EXACTLY what people want.

Uh, no; no, it isn't.  The critics of this particular instalment just want quality, coherent storytelling.


TVs Frink said:
Ranking a movie versus a book is silly.

Not at all.  I mean, if you're expecting a note-for-note parallel with a novel, that's obviously not gonna happen because they're different media.  But if we're talking about comparing ideas, character notes, and plot structure - yeah, that can be done between a book and a film.

bionicbob said:
The whole Canto Bight subplot, I thought was an interesting attempt to shed some reality on the nature of war profiteering, which I never would have expected from a SW movie.

Not a bad concept in and of itself - but it simply doesn't fit here.  It was (a) shoehorned into the larger plot; (b) wasn't terribly entertaining; and (c) had zero impact on the larger story's outcome.

The Luke Skywalker arc.... if I was in my teens or twenties, I probably would have hated this.  But being much, much older now, and been worn down by many of life's hard realities, I thought Luke's fate felt believable.

There was zero logical linkage to Return of the Jedi, making this "Luke" (note the quotation marks) fail to jive with how we knew him from the OT (especially the noble character he finally became in ROTJ).  Now, if the new trilogy had instead begun with a Luke-centered prologue in which he is met with overwhelming tragedy of some kind, THEN for him to subsequently go the hermit route would have been understandable.  But that was very poorly set up, making this "Luke" seem rather abrupt - and, frankly, quite unlikable.  It's one thing for life to get him feeling burnt out or unable to contribute - but another thing entirely to make him the a-hole he behaved as toward Rey.

Again: not a terrible concept, but terribly rendered.

The SW cynic in me finds it shocking Luke would think he was even able to train any future Jedi with true success.  I mean he spent what... one or two days with Obiwan, and maybe a week or two with Yoda... and that makes him a Jedi Master?

Well . . .  :cool: . . . my TESB reedit will fix that.  He'll be on Dagobah for about a year.

Though I do agree with Gaith the Thrawn trilogy, along with the first few expanded universe trilogies, were much better written than the current SW films.

Which makes Disney's jettisoning of the whole EU-as-canon utterly incomprehensible to me.  I mean, good grief, we all know there's some not-so-good stuff in the EU, but the bigger reality is that there's just so darn much of it altogether that a great deal of it is an utterly superb basis for crafting a new film series.  (My personal favorite is the New Jedi Order series, featuring the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong.)

I loved the reveal that [Rey] is just a "nobody"... not another Skywalker... no special parentage... to me this feels more real.

It's not at all "more real"; it's the exact opposite.  She doesn't have to be a Skywalker; I don't care about that - but she sure as heck ought to have something special in her backstory to make it believable for her to be a Force-phenom right out of the gate.  Johnson foolishly, inexplicably gave us nothing like that, and so Rey's very existence becomes a bit stupid.

I loved Leia's limited but powerful appearances.

Mary Poppins Space-Leia was ridiculous.

Poe and the Laura Dern plot, generally worked for me.  A leader does not have to share strategy with their underlings, especially those with a hot head reputation.   But still.... a lot of wasted lives and time could have been saved.

As I've said elsewhere, this could have been much better set up so that we don't have to accept Poe being an out-and-out moron.

Indeed, Johnson appears to have made every possible effort to make virtually every single character (a) stupid and/or inexplicable, and (b) unlikable.

Things that left me frustrated... no explanation how the First Order was able to track the Rebel Fleet?  Was it a traitor?  A tracking device?  Why was no effort make by the rebels to figure this out?????  Snoke.  No development or explanation.  Nothing.  Who was he?  How did he become so powerful?  How did he seduce Ben?  What's his relationship to Luke?  It was interesting all the classic SW style villains... the dreadnaught Admiral, Phasma, Snoke.... are killed and we are left with two snivelling, whiny bad guys.

:exclamation: Right there with ya.

Granted, at least Kylo Ren has a tragic element to him, but again totally undeveloped or explained.

Kylo and Rey both leave me frustrated now and again - yet they're the two most interesting of the new characters.  A properly executed new trilogy would have done better to focus more squarely on them - and MAKE THEM MAKE SENSE.


Fettclone1 said:
Some of the things I did enjoy: 
- The so-called "Forcetime" between Rey and Kylo.

Yep, I thought that was well done.  Those bits will feature strongly in my TFA-TLJ mashup.

- Yoda's appearance on the island.

This was an utter failure to me.  (a) Makes no sense having Yoda show up for one last ghost-show after all these decades; and (b) he just friggin' looked weird.  Visually speaking, that was a complete detonation.

- Benicio Del Toro's character.

A character nowhere nearly interesting enough to save a useless subplot.


But hey, folks - this is why we're at a website that's all about rectifying movie disappointments!
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,447
Reaction score
48
Trophy Points
158
Wow, ok.

You might want to dial back the hyperbole a bit if you want to be taken seriously here.
 

Fettclone1

Active member
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
6
I found that there is some nuance to Gothamknight's  post if you read the entire thing.

There was zero logical linkage to Return of the Jedi, making this "Luke" (note the quotation marks) fail to jive with how we knew him from the OT (especially the noble character he finally became in ROTJ).  Now, if the new trilogy had instead begun with a Luke-centered prologue in which he is met with overwhelming tragedy of some kind, THEN for him to subsequently go the hermit route would have been understandable

Agreed on the first part. Personally, I've battled depression since the age of 9 and I'm nearly 40. Nothing about that, or the other things I've been through, have made me want to give up and become a hermit.

Granted, there is some wiggle room in that Luke has seen some serious SHIT and his father turned out to be a Sith Lord. It may be that, with that in mind, his story can be explained by further details in the events prior to his meltdown.

I think the idea of using that as a starting point would have been brilliant, if maybe a bit difficult to arrive at give that they wanted to start with a brand new lead.  


Overall, I just don't know. I'm so conflicted about this movie- on one hand I just want to write it off as non-canon and let TFA be the end of the Saga as I see it, cliffhanger and all.

On the other hand I think there could be a great fanedit that fixes most of the glaring issues, and it wouldn't be fair to JJ Abrams to skip episode 9 because of this mess.
 

theryaney

Part-time staff member
Faneditor
Messages
1,700
Reaction score
9
Trophy Points
48
theryaney said:
Anyone else notice that Snoke placed the lightsaber very closely to the way Palpatine did?

That made me make this:

artboard-copy-114.png

artboard-copy-115.png

And someone turned that into a video:
 

TMBTM

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
5,903
Reaction score
5
Trophy Points
83
The previous movie already winked at us about why Luke was living as a recluse, plus I don't think he has changed that much.
He tried to kill the Emperor, and he tried to kill his father... then he came back to the light side. It's very much what he does with Ben Solo in this movie.
So it's not totaly out of character for Luke to have a dark side. It's just that by the end of episode 6 we see a Luke very much at peace with himself... but 30 years is a long time...
Hell, I'm sure that half the people who have a problem with tormented Luke in episode 8 would have screamed "genious!" if he had turned completly dark side and fought Rey with the Duel of the Fate theme playing.
 

Zamros

Well-known member
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
43
the script sets up the audience to be THRILLED with Luke's climactic appearance and Force-prowess - and then STEALS that thrill by dumbing down what's actually happening.  And you can argue all you want about how "it takes monumental power to project onself with the Force, blah-blah-blah" - but I'm sorry: it's just not a thrill.  Especially when a thrill seemed to be in the offing and then was yanked away.

Can't say I agree with this at all. The script never set up anything of the sort, you were disappointed by the expectations you set yourself. If anything,

Unless you're watching a 16 hour long art film about grass growing, directed by Michele Haneke. "You just haven't thought about it hard enough" isn't a good enough response to criticism, for the same reason "Just turn your brain off" isn't a good response either.

In this case, the clues were there from the beginning. The moment I saw a skinny, groomed Luke I knew something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it.

It wouldn't have made sense for Luke's character to take on the FO by himself. That's not the character that exists in the canon. He's been spending years running from that "legendary" status.

I don't think it's unfair at all to suggest many's problems with Luke's character come from their own expectations for who they want Luke to be. You built up Luke in your own head to be a legend, just like Rey and Ben and those kids. "Not my Luke" isn't a valid criticism imo

I'm sorry you never got to see your favourite action figure fight a bunch of new action figures with absolutely 0 motivation for his character to do so.
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,447
Reaction score
48
Trophy Points
158
Fettclone1 said:
I found that there is some nuance to Gothamknight's  post if you read the entire thing.

You'll forgive me if I'm not interested in reading a giant wall of text full of insults.
 

The Scribbling Man

Tenant of the Tower of Flints
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
2,836
Reaction score
232
Trophy Points
93
Currently on my way to see The Last Jedi for the 2nd time with my family (who haven't seen it yet). 4k this time as well... 

My sister couldn't remember what happened in The Force Awakens... So I made her watch @"TMBTM" 's Silent edit over dinner as a sort of recap ;)
 

DigModiFicaTion

DᴉმWoqᴉԷᴉcɑꓕᴉou
Staff member
Faneditor
Messages
5,626
Reaction score
290
Trophy Points
133
The Scribbling Man said:
My sister couldn't remember what happened in The Force Awakens... So I made her watch @"TMBTM" 's Silent edit over dinner as a sort of recap ;)
We'll I guess that's one way to celebrate a silent night. ;)
 

The Scribbling Man

Tenant of the Tower of Flints
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
2,836
Reaction score
232
Trophy Points
93
Just came out. 

My Mum and sister "enjoyed it". 
My mate thought it was "OK". 

My dad said it was too long, the sound was better when he saw Quadrophenia and he wished he could go back to black and white TV.  :p 

Second time round, my thoughts are: it's better than I thought, it's better than others think, it doesn't deserve the hate, Yoda looks alright, Canto Bight isn't all that bad and I really quite like the film as a whole.  

I believe that the chief problems are with length, pacing and a variety of unnecessary shots or scenes - be it poor humour or crummy CGI/green screen. 
If I do an edit, I will not be altering the narrative, just trimming the fat (similar to what I'm doing with the B+ series).

Edit: This may be better in the Last Jedi ideas thread, but I'll leave that up to the moderators.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
3
Trophy Points
123
I went and saw The Last Jedi again yesterday with family. My opinion greatly improved after the second viewing. I liked it the first time I saw it, but many of the things that bothered me the first time around weren't an issue after the second watch.

I agree with The Scribbling Man: the film is better than I thought, and it definitely doesn't deserve any hate it may be getting.

Yoda looks great, and Canto Bight isn't as nearly as bloated as I thought (it could still do with some very minimal trimming).

The only issue I still have with the movie is Leia's space float. It just looked horrible. I think it should be fairly simple to recut it so that it appears as though her injuries come straight from the explosion.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it, and TFA/Rogue One/TLJ are in a tight group just a hair behind the OT and miles ahead of the PT for me. I'm looking forward to viewing #3.
 
Top Bottom