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Star Wars - The Final Order by Spence

spence

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Hi All!

I've been kicking around some ideas for this movie basically since it came out. As some of you know, I did do a light revision to HAL9000's stellar edit of this movie that more fit my tastes and pacing. I don't advertise it as so much of the work is originally HAL's, but I think I'm going to take another, very different crack at it.

I'm also breaking my rule of not editing movies I really dislike, because I really dislike this movie. However, there's possibly enough elements in there to make it work, and I can't get it out of my head.

It's easy to say that bringing back Palpatine is a mistake, but I've softened on that a bit. I'm actually a little more Ok with Palpatine as the big bad of the entire series. That's not actually the problem.

The big problem, to me, is a lack of focus. The movie is all over the place, trying to cram in too many plots, subplots, and character arcs. Nothing is given enough time to breathe, so nothing ever feels satisfying. I can tell you what TFA and especially TLJ are about. I have no idea what Rise of Skywalker is about. I have no idea what it has to say.

So, how do we fix this? My core ideas:

- Leia needs to not be involved in the plot. Her sloppily worked in deleted scenes from TFA don't fit, have no purpose, and completely take over the story of Rey and Kylo. I love Carrie Fisher and Princess Leia, but they should've just let her rest.

- Rey cannot be a Palpatine. TFA and TLJ set up a completely different arc for her. In those movies, it's about her being a nobody with tremendous power that doesn't belong in this story. She's figuring out what her place is. In TROS, the plot is almost completely based around her lineage. I know a lot of people don't like that she's just nobody, but the solution is not to eliminate two movies worth of character and plot development to change it to something completely different.

- Rey cannot, at every turn, be assisted by other Star Wars characters. She defeats Kylo because Leia intervened. She defeats Palpatine because the spirits of the past Jedi intervened. She's the hero. She needs to do it herself.

How does that create focus? Well, because the movie is now about Kylo being pulled to the light, and Rey being pulled to the dark. They're both on the brink of their respective breakthroughs. Kylo feels remorse for killing Han, and he feels the loss of his mother. He definitely feels something for Rey. The light is trying to grab him more than ever, and he's fighting as hard as he ever has.

Meanwhile, Rey is filled with anger toward Kylo Ren, and it pushes her to lean more and more toward the dark. And now, Palpatine sees her as his heir, as someone who can take the Sith throne. She doesn't want it, but she's dangerously close to it.

The duel on top of the wreckage of the old Death Star, and in a way the wreckage of the original trilogy, is the breaking point for both. Originally, Kylo is about to kill Rey but stops when he hears Leia's call. Then, Rey strikes him down out of hatred and anger, but is instantly distracted by Leia's death. This muddies the scene exponentially.

So instead of Leia being involved, what if it went something like this?


It's a rough proof of concept, but I think you can see what I'm going for. Both characters made their own decision. Both have agency. And the ramifications of those decisions are what lead them to fighting together in the end. Kylo comes to the light, and Rey is able to defeat Palpatine with this power she doesn't fully understand, the power Palpatine wanted her to use as his heir. Story arcs complete!

I have a bunch of other ideas, but this is the crux of what I'm getting at. There's a collaborative "REY NOBODY" thread over at OT forums that has some incredible work that could be useful in accomplishing what I want to do with this.

I still have a Wizard kid to wrap up, and a really long sandy sequel to deliver before I can devote much effort to this, but it's starting to look more and more possible.

Anyway, thoughts? Feedback? Would you be interested in this style of edit?
 
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spence

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Anybody that knows about DeepFakes have any idea if it would be possible to replace Palpatine's face in TROS with Snoke?
 

ArtisDead

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Yes. It is very possible. I've seen something like that done.
 

M4_

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Some of these new effects have been done and they've been shared on OT forum, specifically Hal900's thread - so I'd recommend checking that or asking around there. Should make things a lot easier! I know the puppet one was done, same as what you were thinking of, and also a lot of force ghost effects were made
 

spence

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Bumping this thread as I just completely re-wrote the first post. I've had a lot of time to stew on this movie, and I'm starting to see a clearer picture of what I want to do with it.
 

asterixsmeagol

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Anyway, thoughts? Feedback? Would you be interested in this style of edit?
I agree with your main objections, and I mostly like what you've done in that clip, but the slow-mo didn't quite work for me, and I think it might be better to leave out the flash of Palpatine and just use the one shot of the empty throne a few seconds later. Less is more in my opinion.
 

spence

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I agree with your main objections, and I mostly like what you've done in that clip, but the slow-mo didn't quite work for me, and I think it might be better to leave out the flash of Palpatine and just use the one shot of the empty throne a few seconds later. Less is more in my opinion.
Unfortunately, slow-mo is the only way to achieve what I was trying to do, because JJ Abrams edits his movies like an orangutan that's had 4 gallons of Mountain Dew. But year, that's definitely not final.
 

spence

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Here's another concept. This is moving Leia's death to where Rey's vision usually happens. I would re-order the Kylo helmet stuff so it happens prior to this. This sequence would be Leia's only appearance in the film. It's clearly a double, so it feels a little less ghoulish to me than digitally resurrecting her.

Rey's vision is now moved to the first time she picks up the dagger.

This also replaces the scene where Finn and Poe return in the original version with the one from toward the end of the film.

Clearly just an initial sketch of how this could work, but thought it was worth sharing for discussion.

 

spence

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Will you be doing something with the "force healing"? That sorta came out of nowhere in this episode.
I will not, I actually like it as a symbol of choosing the light side of the Force. It actually plays better with my planned changes, I think.

Plus, Baby Yoda can do it too, so there's a precedent.
 

Nic

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Is there anyway you can have Poe's big speech before the final battle brodcast galaxy wide (where he's all "this is what our mothers and fathers fought for")? It's the only time we see Poe in a leadership role for this movie, and it would mean a lot if his words inspire the galaxy to come to his aide.
 

spence

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Is there anyway you can have Poe's big speech before the final battle brodcast galaxy wide (where he's all "this is what our mothers and fathers fought for")? It's the only time we see Poe in a leadership role for this movie, and it would mean a lot if his words inspire the galaxy to come to his aide.
It wasn't in my plans, but I do like the idea. Not sure how to go about accomplishing it thought.

TROS has an astonishing lack of establishing shots. It's crazy. I had to create one for Ajan Kloss as there is literally never an establishing shot of that planet. You never see anyone land there. So to do something like that I'd probably have to pull shots from other films.
 

Nic

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It wasn't in my plans, but I do like the idea. Not sure how to go about accomplishing it thought.

TROS has an astonishing lack of establishing shots. It's crazy. I had to create one for Ajan Kloss as there is literally never an establishing shot of that planet. You never see anyone land there. So to do something like that I'd probably have to pull shots from other films.

This is blue skying a bit, but you could have the multiple ships on Exegol parrot Poe's lines from his speech. All you have to do is get everyone from OT.com to record lines again. 😅
 

spence

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This is blue skying a bit, but you could have the multiple ships on Exegol parrot Poe's lines from his speech. All you have to do is get everyone from OT.com to record lines again. 😅
Yeah that's a bit beyond the scope of this edit. 😂

Plus, to be very me about it, it doesn't matter if everyone hears him, it matters that he's becoming the leader Leia saw in him.
 

SIUse

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.Anyway, thoughts? Feedback? Would you be interested in this style of edit?
Since you going the route that Rey is able to defeat Palpatine alone (which i‘m biased towards to because of his powers and knowledge of the force), do you thought of using her anger and willingly tapping into the dark side to defeat him (flicker of sith eyes or some other color work like on Malgus in the new cinematic swtor trailer - black whites and iris being unchanged?)?
 

spence

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Since you going the route that Rey is able to defeat Palpatine alone (which i‘m biased towards to because of his powers and knowledge of the force), do you thought of using her anger and willingly tapping into the dark side to defeat him (flicker of sith eyes or some other color work like on Malgus in the new cinematic swtor trailer - black whites and iris being unchanged?)?
This is honestly the problem inherent to the sequel trilogy that I don't think can be effectively overcome.

The story that is set up in TFA and TLJ is Rey learning to control her immense power to eventually defeat the villain. However, because they last second decided to make that villain Palpatine, this now feels a little less realistic for her to be able to do.

So the choices are, she defeats the most powerful Sith Lord by herself, or she gets help or uses the dark side, but has a less powerful character arc.

my preference is that the storytelling/character arc stays strong and she's able to beat Palpatine by herself, using the light side of the force.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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I agree she shouldn’t be bailed out and needs to have her own moment. I can’t remember what that fan made scene looks like with the fallen Hedi ghosts with her. But does it imply they are actively fighting or can it be interpreted that she has effectively mastered the Force and so these Force ghosts are now visible to her? If they just stand there and don’t rush into battle, could that scene be used to imply that?
 

spence

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I agree she shouldn’t be bailed out and needs to have her own moment. I can’t remember what that fan made scene looks like with the fallen Hedi ghosts with her. But does it imply they are actively fighting or can it be interpreted that she has effectively mastered the Force and so these Force ghosts are now visible to her? If they just stand there and don’t rush into battle, could that scene be used to imply that?
HAL9000 incorporated that into their version. I'm messing around with including it.

I'm still kind of sketching a lot of this out. I appreciate the suggestion/discussion!
 

SIUse

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So the choices are, she defeats the most powerful Sith Lord by herself, or she gets help or uses the dark side, but has a less powerful character arc.
While getting why you prefer her arc that way for your edit, i would see the idea of her strong arc a bit different. From my point of view her personality development would be even stronger if she’s able to get past the dogmatic views of light and dark opposing each other like good and bad.
Finally seeing what luke meant in EP VIII.
Krausfadr started this idea in his edit for EP VII as she was fighting kylo and tapped into the dark side while she was still untrained and couldn’t grasp how dangerous this was for her. So it would - in my head - resemble a strong growth in her character if she’s able to use the whole range of the force without falling for it.
 
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