Star Trek STRANGE NEW WORLDS

[MightyAttackTribble]

I generally dislike musicals, and find musical episodes of TV shows that have no inherent reason for people to be singing contrived and borderline unwatchable. This was fun enough, but I'll be skipping it in future rewatches.

 

[bionicbob]

Did anyone catch the 'science' in this one though? was this a subspace fold? They were saying this was new and amazing and could enable communication over light years nearly instantly. But surely they already have subspace communication at this point? Or is this part of the origins for it?

It is soooooooooooooooo confusing lol

They already use Sub-Space for long distance communication.
But, if I understood them, this is the first time they ever encountered a manifested physical Sub-Space Fold in our reality???
And because it is more concentrated, they could use it to send messages in Real Time???
But because it is more concentrated, it has an Improbability Field that alters emotions into singing?????????????????????????????
And does that now mean the Sub-Space Fold is somehow sentient????????????????????

Honestly, SNW feels more and more like a Fantasy Show than a Science Fiction series this second season.

 

[tremault]

It is soooooooooooooooo confusing lol

They already use Sub-Space for long distance communication.
But, if I understood them, this is the first time they ever encountered a manifested physical Sub-Space Fold in our reality???
And because it is more concentrated, they could use it to send messages in Real Time???
But because it is more concentrated, it has an Improbability Field that alters emotions into singing?????????????????????????????
And does that now mean the Sub-Space Fold is somehow sentient????????????????????

Honestly, SNW feels more and more like a Fantasy Show than a Science Fiction series this second season.

Ah! I see!
okay, well to be fair, sub-space was always a bit of a wishy washy concept wasn't it. it was never clearly defined as to what it was or how it works.
They did say they were connecting with an alternate reality where everyone sings their emotions, so they are dipping their toes in multiverse territory and I think I'm okay with that. To be honest, if anything it lends more credence to the idea that this is not in fact the 'prime timeline'.

 

[addiesin]

It all should have just been Kelvin right from the get go. The crazy Klingon designs for Discovery is the biggest thing to me, as not a big Trek person, but a person big on creatively upholding continuity. I love those designs and the new range of skin tones and whatnot, it's all really cool looking, it just seemed like a totally different species than Klingon. And knowing what the canon look was for that era, which basically every other show has acknowledged, the fact that they changed it so radically makes it easy for someone like me to see why Trek fans are so apprehensive with each new show, nothing's sacred..
But in a wiped/fresh continuity the die hard fans in theory would be more forgiving. Maybe they thought it would be too complicated to explain to new audiences, so they just said, "no no it's the normal timeline". Not that that's a good excuse.

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Officially, Paramount considers all on-screen Trek (except the Kelvin movies) to be the Prime timeline. But here's a breakdown of all of the timelines:

The "original" timeline was seen on TV and movies from 1967-2005, and includes ENT (2151-2155), TOS (2266-2270), TAS (2270-2271), TOS movies (2772-2293), and TNG-VOY (2364-2379). All novels published up to 1996 take place in the Prime universe, and also the newer ones since 2021 set during each series are also in the Prime universe.

The TNG/DS9/VOY relaunch novels, and their subsequent spin-off series were originally meant to take place in the Prime universe too, but after the new Paramount+ shows started in the same part of the timeline, they were retroactively moved to an alternate timeline that branched off starting with the Enterprise's return from the past in First Contact. This timeline continued through the Coda trilogy in 2021 (set in 2387). That timeline is now effectively ended, but I really like the send off it got and it feels complete.

Another timeline branch occurred with 2009's reboot movie, where Nero and Spock travel from the Prime timeline in 2380 back to 2233, creating the Kelvin timeline seen in Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness, and Beyond.

The new Paramount+ shows are meant to continue the Prime timeline, and I think it's fair to say that all of the 24th Century shows do. Lower Decks is set in 2380 just after Romulus is destroyed and Nero and Spock travel back in time, Prodigy is set a few years later in 2383, and Picard is set quite a bit after that in 2399. I also have problems reconciling what we've seen in Discovery and Strange New Worlds with the Prime timeline as seen in TOS. I fully understand the cosmetic updates for practical purposes, but there does seems to be some other retconning going on that rubs me the wrong way (even if I do enjoy the shows). Luckily for us, SNW's recent episode "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" gives us a hand-wave explanation for those deviations: Somethig something Time War whatever. This is convenient for the writers, as it clears away canon discrepancies, but also as a viewer I appreciate them giving me a reason to consider these new shows to be an alternate branch of the timeline, apparently from somewhere back pre-1990.

The original timeline of TOS and TNG-VOY will always be my favorite, and I also prefer the novel universe to the new 24th Century shows, so for me, that remains my personal "Prime" universe. The Kelvin universe was a fun side story to follow for a bit, but I tired of it quickly and I'm kind of glad we've abandoned it. I do enjoy the new shows, but for my headcanon they are all now solidly in a Beta universe that runs closely parallel to my "Prime".[/I]

 

[KumoNin]

I have a few points of order regarding your account of the timeline. Firstly, Romulus destruction is 2387, thus, well after Lower Decks. Secondly, I think it's fair to say that something something time shenanigans time war continuity began with (if not already First Contact, then) Enterprise, and that it is, at least to an extent, affected by timey-wimey enough that I wouldn't include it in the "original" timeline quite the way you do. Lastly, I'm not sure that the status of TAS was always as undisputed canon, but I don't know enough about that to argue.

One definitely has to take canonicity with a bit of a larger grain of salt than usual to enjoy SNW and especially the other new shows, but hey, that's the way it is now I guess

 

[asterixsmeagol]

Oops you're right about Romulus. But in my defense I wrote that in bed 30 seconds before going to sleep and I wasn't about to fact check. Chalk it up to something something timeline whatever.

 

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The new shows haven't really gone out of their way until recently to be explicit about it, but all the time travel shenanigans have essentially made the Prime timeline 'mushy'

Between Kirk's notorious time travel exploits, the alterations made to First Contact, the Temporal Cold War, Nero, and the Red Angel retroactively adding an adopted sister to Spock's childhood, the new shows have given themselves all the creative freedom they need to do their own thing as long as they operate within the broad strokes of established continuity.

A good example of this is having Pike temporarily promoted to Fleet Captain so Kirk can meet him earlier than was established in TOS. They're working within the lines, but finding clever ways around them to tell the stories they want to do.

 

[bionicbob]

S2E10. “Hegemony”

It’s the season two finale and the Gorn return.

A solid, campless, episode though not quite as strong as their two previous Gorn centric episodes. And this mostly because it is somewhat difficult to believe any of the legacy characters are in any real life threatening danger.

But I liked the hints that the Gorn are more than just “monsters”.

We get another iconic TOS character making an appearance. His performance is excellent though my canon brain thinks he is too young?

As usual great visuals, with some nice nods to Arena. They also blatantly steal from the Alien franchise…again.

In the end, an engaging episode. With the ongoing strike, it will probably be at least a year before SNW returns.

 

[tremault]

While I think it was the best episode yet, I think the whole season comes across as incredibly weak when we see the "to be continued"at the end. If we can get this kind of quality and it's not even finished, it makes me wonder why we didn't get this kind of quality story telling throughout the series while we were getting overly camp weak episodes.

 

[bionicbob]

While I think it was the best episode yet, I think the whole season comes across as incredibly weak when we see the "to be continued"at the end. If we can get this kind of quality and it's not even finished, it makes me wonder why we didn't get this kind of quality story telling throughout the series while we were getting overly camp weak episodes.

Probably because they were too obsessed with their "Big Swings" rather than just telling solid science fiction stories.

But hey, apparently people LOVE this season based on wide reviews and the series hitting the streaming top ten.

 

[bionicbob]

Season 2 overview review....

While season two appears to be a mainstream hit, entering the streaming top ten and receiving mostly positive reviews, I found this season a frustrating experience. Too much sitcom/meta humor for me tastes. There was no consistent tonal reality. Also, with the exception of two episodes, Pike this season was mostly a side player and often an ineffective one at that.

Episode breakdowns, scored 1 (awful) to 5 (awesome!)...

Ep1 Broken Circle -- a good episode undermined by an idiotic pointless first act about stealing the Enterprise and giving a Spock a catchphrase: 3/5

Ep2 Ad Astra per Aspera -- excellent court room drama with classic Trek social messaging. 5/5

Ep3 Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow -- a decent time travel/retcon story mired by pacing, illogics and romcom 3/5

Ep4 Among the Lotus Eaters -- a TOS style story with Pike front and center 5/5

Ep5 Charades -- a storyline with incredible potential wasted and turned into screwball comedy. The only thing I liked were the Spock/Amanda moments 1/5

Ep6 Lost in the Translation -- a good Uhura (MVP of season two) story with some nice Trek lore and character beats. 4/5

Ep7 Those Old Scientists -- a fun episode as a stand alone experiment. But should LD really be canon? And will we do a crossover with the Simpsons next? 3/5

Ep8 Under The Cloak of War -- Post War trauma explored with M'Benga and Chapel. Why are there no security cameras in Sick Bay? 4/5

Ep9 Subspace Rhapsody -- trying to outdo Buffy and not succeeding. Yes, they have bigger set pieces and autotune, but it lacks the impactful gravitas. 2/5

Ep10 Hegemony -- an entertaining Alien rip-off with little real suspense due to most of the cast being Legacy Characters. 3/5

Using Science, that means, I give SNW Season TWO a score of 66%.

 

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I dug this season as much as the first. I like that the show tries a different genre with each new episode. I can understand how this wouldn't be to everyone's taste but I much prefer it to the bland tonal and visual consistency than plagued too much of the Berman era. There's a lot to love from that period, but I want Star Trek taking big swings.

My biggest gripe is that we're going to have to wait at least a year before this show comes back. Perhaps longer.

 

[asterixsmeagol]

I hear what you're saying about the tonal shifts, but I think older shows did this too. It just wasn't as noticeable because it was one or two episodes out of 26 per season instead of 10.

 

[bionicbob]

I hear what you're saying about the tonal shifts, but I think older shows did this too. It just wasn't as noticeable because it was one or two episodes out of 26 per season instead of 10.

And this is my biggest issue.
Yes, all Star Trek have done Comedy episodes or Gimmick episodes. But they were the rarity, not the norm. And that made them special. Unique. Memorable. Even Powerful.
And they were also EARNED. It was done once you established your characters, your story, your universe, your reality. Once you earned your viewers Trust and Faith. So when they went off script, it was a delightful silly romp that could be savored as something special because you had faith in the producers that they would be returning to their regularly scheduled programing the following week.

But with season two of SNW, not so much. But then again, I realize I have become THAT GUY when it come to Star Trek... LOL...

 

[addiesin]

I think they're maybe leaning hard on the "Strange" and maybe also the "New" in the title. They'll probably ease up on that or at least exhaust their bigger ideas and default to more normal Trek for most of season 3. I say that as a spectator of the thread who has seen some of season one but has not caught up with it.

 

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I can see how the more condensed nature of modern big budget sci-fi TV seasons is going to be a struggle if you want those old 20+ seasons where the oddball episodes were a welcome relief from the standard formula. This is something that Discovery has really struggled with by having each season feel the need to be one big giant epic each time, rather than slow down to let us get to know and care about the characters.

SNW's approach works for me because, if I ever want that old formula, I can go back and enjoy it in the hundreds of old episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9, etc. I think the only way for Star Trek to have a viable future is for them to keep pushing forward and trying new stuff rather than relying too heavily upon what they've already done, and done well, dozens upon dozens of times already.

This is always a tricky balance for the caretakers of these decades-old franchises to manage. You've got to give the old fans enough of what they love, but also keep trying something new so they won't get bored while also making something that will hopefull appeal to newer audiences who haven't been hooked yet.

They're not always going to get that balance right, but I'd rather they keep trying to make those big swings that occassionally fall flat than deliver something unremarkable because they weren't pushing hard enough to take risks.