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Star Trek AXANAR

bionicbob

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The fan film is now in production, and the first scene has been released as a teaser.....

 

Vultural

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I still have my fingers crossed for this.
Appreciate that they are raising enough funds and taking their time.
I pray the effects are good, and the story is well written.

Have not watched Renegades yet.
From reviews, I gather it is favored more by Trekkies - who will take anything, anything, at this point - and less by the average.
Oh, it's free from their site.
Maybe I'll watch this weekend.
Low expectations, though.

Anaxar - hoping hoping hoping.
 

Captain Khajiit

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Vultural said:
I still have my fingers crossed for this.

As do I. Renegades was enjoyable but fell short of being the fan film that ʻmade itʼ as far as quality goes, which is ultimately that for which I hope (perhaps unreasonably).
 

bionicbob

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Vultural said:
Have not watched Renegades yet.
From reviews, I gather it is favored more by Trekkies - who will take anything, anything, at this point - and less by the average.

I don't think I would agree 100% with that statement.
While I think many passionate Trekkies/Trekkers may be more forgiving towards fan productions shortcomings than a professional studio production, I do not think they will blindly accept anything with a Trek label slapped on it.

In fact, in many instances, Trek lovers are some of the most picky, cruelest critics. I have been following the Renegades discussion on the Trek BBS, and even I have been stunned by some of the harshness of the criticisms posted there. They are equally critical of well respected fan series such as New Voyages and ST Continues. I mean, if you give a Trek devotee the time, we can nit-pick and tear apart our beloved episodes, movies, books and fan productions better than the non-fan.

I think the two biggest immediate problems with Renegades before it even begun production, was one, the producers were heavily promoting it as a television pilot and two, that it was crowd funded. These two things immediately raise fan expectations for a higher than normal level of quality (compared to other known fan productions) and opens the doors to a wider range of criticisms since it being paid for by the fans. Both of which are completely reasonable imo.

If the Renegade team has instead promoted the fan film as a "proof of concept" or as just another Trek fan series, would it have fared better? I dunno, maybe...

I have watched it three times now, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. At first glance, the greatest obvious weakness is the under developed script. Or is it? The script is written like a pilot, not like a movie with a definite beginning, middle and end. The whole idea is to introduce ideas, concepts and characters and then develop these things in further episodes. So yes, the script could use more polish, but the concept presented basically works. The Renegades team claims to have enough budget for two more episodes, so maybe when viewed as a whole, the story will play better? I mean many successful tv shows had weak or terrible pilot episodes. I keep thinking of Babylon 5 and what a mess it's pilot The Gathering was... and it went on to great success.

Much like The Gathering, the problems with Renegades is not one single big thing, just lots of little things that collectively affect the final viewer experience. It has so much in it's favour from a decent budget (though no where near what is needed for tv sci-fi pilot), good writers experienced in Trek and seasoned professional actors. But it fails to fully succeed due to mostly poor directing and editing choices.

As I stated before in the Renegades thread, in terms of final production, other fan series like ST Continues and New Voyages feel and look more polished, but Renegades has a slightly more intriguing concept for new Trek. And I hope they learn from their pilot experience and get to make their next two episodes to flesh out their narrative.

But back to Axanar, I too have very high hopes based on what has been shown so far and the comments/interviews posted by the production. And while their are many similarities between this fan production and Renegades, it's advantage and strength is it only trying to tell one story, not a continuing saga. Though that puts even greater pressure on making certain the script is fully developed, because no matter how good your actors are, they can only elevate weak material so far before it collapses from its own inadequacies.

But we know all this... lol. It is why we fan edit.;-)

Anyway, here is an interesting post about a recent meeting between the Axanar team and CBS which owns Star Trek....
http://www.axanarproductions.com/axanar-and-cbs/
 

Vultural

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Bear in mind, I have Renegades on my computer, but have not viewed it yet.
Could this fan film be improved with an edit?
 

Uncanny Antman

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Vultural said:
Bear in mind, I have Renegades on my computer, but have not viewed it yet.
Could this fan film be improved with an edit?
I hope so, I've already spent at least 10 hours on it. :)
 

bionicbob

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Uncanny Antman said:
I hope so, I've already spent at least 10 hours on it. :)

More details please....

I am understandably curious.... :D
 

Uncanny Antman

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bionicbob said:
More details please....

I am understandably curious.... :D
Nothing super radical, mostly tightening up the whole thing. Removing scenes that (IMO) add very little, dropping shots and lines (when possible) that are less than stellar, removing one or two characters completely, replacing or supplementing effects shots, trying to get the pacing right (lots of weird little pauses throughout that give it that "not quite finished" feel), stuff like that. :)

I'll make a thread for it with more specific details when I'm close to finishing.
 

flaminio

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Fan-editing fan-films? We're through the wormhole, folks.
 

hbenthow

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flaminio said:
Fan-editing fan-films? We're through the wormhole, folks.
One of these days, someone will make fan-art based on a fan-fiction story that was based on a fan-edit of a fan-film. Mark my words.
 

bionicbob

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Lots of wonderful Trekbabble about the starships for the upcoming film.... :D

 

bionicbob

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bionicbob

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TM2YC said:
Needlessly piss off the fans months before the new film comes out? Wise decision.

Based on what I have been reading on the Trek BBS, it seems most members there are unsurprised by this turn of events.

Apparently Alec Peters, the producer of Axanar, used the kickstarted campaign to build a for-profit studio (Ares Productions) to make his non-profit fan film. Coupled with the fact he has heavily promoted Axanar as an "independent professional production", many feel he has crossed an invisible line.

Tony Todd left the production more than 3 months ago for undisclosed reasons, though since the lawsuit announcement, he has been making some interesting comments on his Twitter account.

I think there is much more going on than has been yet revealed.

I only hope it does not negatively impact other Trek fan films.
 

bionicbob

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David Gerrold's response to the lawsuit announcement:

As I know Alec Peters (and several other independent producers this might affect) I have to suggest that this could be a big mistake for the studio and the network to go after fan films. Most of the fan film producers are good guys, they are enthusiastic fans. (Even the one or two I don't like very much.)

It's likely going to piss off the fans and damage both Paramount and CBS' relationship with the core audience -- and that audience is already seething about the way Trek has been presented in the last two movies.

The fan films have, to a great extent, recaptured the spirit of the original series, something that seems to have eluded some of those who have actually been entrusted with custody of the franchise.

Too often, Star Trek has been reimagined and reinvented in someone else's image, and the result is not the Star Trek Gene Roddenberry created. (Gene seethed about that too -- but Gene wasn't always right either.)

With this action, CBS and Paramount are sending a strong signal that their intention is to shut down not just this fan film, but any fan film that they choose to disapprove of. In this case, I would guess it's because Axanar has raised too much money and intends to create a truly professional-looking product.

What some have suggested -- and it's an interesting thought -- is that Paramount has a new movie coming out in 2016 and CBS has a new series planned. It could be that on some level they are concerned about the inevitable comparison with Axanar and other fan productions. (Especially if the fans demonstrate that they can do for one million dollars what a studio can't accomplish with 100 million.)

But the lawsuit suggests that CBS and Paramount might be missing the point. The fan productions are about the hunger for new Star Trek. They're not competition as much as they are signs that the franchise is alive and well. Keeping the fans engaged is the best thing that CBS and Paramount can do to keep the franchise alive.

I understand the corporate desire to protect their rights to the franchise, but that cat got out of the bag a long time ago. If they weren't going to shut down Star Trek New Voyages and Star Trek Continues and Star Trek Renegades and Star Trek Farragut for "copyright infringement" -- and those productions use Kirk, Spock, et al, and the original enterprise -- then they're going to have a much harder case with Axanar which barely touches the same specific content of the original series.

I suspect that the lawsuit isn't about copyright infringement as much as it's designed to intimidate Axanar's producers. I'll be interested to see how this proceeds.
I wonder how much money Axanar can raise if they crowdfund their legal costs....

[I have no direct access and no specific information on this situation, other than the new reports I have read. My comments are my own thoughts on the matter and are not to be interpreted as representing anybody else's opinion or the opinions of anyone involved in the case.]

[And if I did have access to that kind of information, I wouldn't repeat it, because it would violate the confidentiality of the participants.]

Source: https://www.facebook.com/david.gerro...07057494648136
 

Gaith

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"The fans" don't determine if the new movie will be a success. It's nice for the studio when we're happy, but it's hardly the ballgame. (See: how upset Paramount is about the fan reactions to Bayformers.) And many of us Trek fans don't care about fan films either way.

My own gut reaction is the suits are doing fan filmmakers a favor. (Well, at least those who genuinely have no profit motive - and that's not a comment or guess on those involved in the one at hand, because I don't know about that or care.)

Look, I love franchises. Sequels, spinoffs, sidequels, reboots (when justified) - if the audience is happy and the creators are profiting, bring 'em on. But (relatively) polished fan films, operating on million-dollar budgets, that don't profit their creators? Hobbies are all well and good, but they can also become unhealthy obsessions. If these creators have the time, resources and skills to make relatively polished fan films (that usually still look like crap by corporate moviemaking standards, IMHO), why not make something new, something they can potentially sell, and thus enrich their families while they explore their creativity?

I know that selling entertainment is super difficult, and it's damn hard and rare to make something homemade that'll attract attention around the world like a corporate IP fan film. For an amateur filmmaker or collective to sell a product, they may have to, say, partner with a local theater to hold a handful of event screenings, and pursue a local audience, and really get involved in the community and produce something uniquely reflective of that area. Which might be a gloomy proposition indeed if they live in a boring-ass, culturally lifeless, possibly not-at-all photogenic area - true. In that case, maybe local theater is a wiser use of time and resources. (But maybe these fan filmmakers aren't theater types; they're more about the hardware of video production and the glamour of set design and digital effects over writing and acting? And maybe, as a writer/actor guy at heart, that's why I'm so indifferent to these fan films in general?) Or, if the fan filmmakers don't want to go the local route, they might have to come up with a really creative spin on a common theme/genre, and try for Patreon funding or something.

I know I'm coming across as a total sourpuss here, and hey, if these fan filmmakers really love what they're doing, it's not my place to go on their Facebook project page piss in their Cheerios. (And I'm certainly not a drone for the studio - though I grep up on Trek, I saw Furious 6 instead of Into Darkness in theaters because the latter's reviews were so blah, and though I didn't love the former I absolutely stand by that call.) I only make these wet-blanket comments here, amigos, because as this is a site specifically devoted to the particular and in-depth criticism of movies, I don't feel any responsibility to not put in my two cents.

It's certainly a dick move on the suits' part to be changing their tune after giving these fan filmmakers explicit assurances they'd look the other way; no doubt about that. If a primary result of all this is fan filmmakers shy away from online crowdfunding entirely, and can thus breathe easier as they go about their (consequently more modest) efforts, that might be a good result from an overall crappy incident. If fans want to make and share quality Trek art (or any other corporate IP) specifically and above all else, they can write stories, draw comics, record dramatic podcasts, even make non-IP-infringing films about fans and fandom, a la Free Enterprise; no studio is ever going to bother going after that sort of stuff. But online crowdfunding for nonprofit corporate IP-related movies, even (allegedly) just for expensive tech and materials that will (theoretically)only help produce the advertised product itself? Yeah, that's a whole planetary system full of gray area.

And does all this affect my chances of seeing Beyond in theaters? Not one iota; the reviews alone will determine that.
 

Captain Khajiit

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bionicbob said:
Apparently Alec Peters, the producer of Axanar, used the kickstarted campaign to build a for-profit studio (Ares Productions)...

If true, that's certainly an act of hubris. He's awakened the sleeping god of war, who dwells on Paramount.

I only hope it does not negatively impact other Trek fan films.

That is indeed the hope. There are also potential implications for non-Trek fan-films. Thanks for keeping us informed, bob.
 
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