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Smallville

Kal-El

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bionicbob said:
But is better than the current run of JLA or Superman, both major DC flagship titles and both major disappointments when one considers the hype and talent involved.;-)
This is where I whole heartedly disagree. As much as some titles have mediocre story lines, I still feel Smallville stands as the odd man out. I think it just doesn't fit. It's wrong, and they should have made it a proper comic book format, like everything else is.
 

bionicbob

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Kal-El said:
This is where I whole heartedly disagree. As much as some titles have mediocre story lines, I still feel Smallville stands as the odd man out. I think it just doesn't fit. It's wrong, and they should have made it a proper comic book format, like everything else is.


Not clear on what you mean by "odd man out'? Do you mean you wish it was not a digital format release (which I agree with you upon) or do you mean it does not fit with Nu52 titles?

My view on it when comparing Smallville to JLA or Superman is this....
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA is the flagship title of the DC Universe, it has two of DC biggest talents on it, Geoff Johns and Jim Lee, it should represent the very best that DC can produce. Instead, it is a lame 5 issue poorly written origin arc (that could have easily been one issue) that is nothing more than an extended fight sequence with no real resolution. And over in SUPERMAN while we have some great artwork by George Perez overloaded with dialogue, it is easily the most boring Supreman relaunch storyline I ever had the displeasure of reading.

So when I pick up an over hyped relaunch with mega talent behind it like JLA or SUPERMAN, my expectations are very high. While SMALLVILLE had very little advanced hype or big names behind it, and I pretty much got what I expected. So when comparing the various titles in terms of satisfaction, Smallville comes out for me the clear winner.

On the flip side, just read the first issue of EARTH 2 by James Robinson, and WOW!!! That is what a first issue release should be always like -- great art, great dialogue, good characters and drama and a very cool cliffhanger!!! I want more titles like that!:)
 

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just finished reading again through the first three chapters of Season 11. I have to say that this is definitely an interesting adventure. it's more of what i loved about Smallville. plus it's cool to see Clark finally being Superman. yeah, it's taking a little bit to get the story going. but i believe that once the story gets going, then it's going to be awesome.

i'd have to agree with Bob regarding the Nu52 Supes. he's not all that well received by me. mostly cause just feels like something's missing. i'd gladly take Smallville over the Nu52 Supes.

plus it's always good to see more of Green Arrow. even tho, CW is pretty much rebooting the character with his own show. which i dunno if i see it lasting or not. they're trying to get it too it seems. but i think ppl r gonna be more interested in seeing the Smallville version more.

one of the great things is that this actually has me trying to guess at what's going to happen next.
 

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Agreed. Earth 2 blew me away. Fantastic story. Seeing Superman die made me cringe. Same for WW.
No, it's not a spoiler. I'm guessing it will be reversed.

It's not the digital format. I enjoyed Superman Beyond more than I did Smallville. I agree on Superman though. Rather tepid launch. Beyond is way better. Superman contemplating his reason to exist in a world where law enforcement uses body enhancing nano technology? Superman growing weary of having outlived Lois, having lost her? Great material.
 

bionicbob

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Is anyone still reading the season 11 comic?

I am and I am LOVING it!

The art has improved substantially and the dialogue/story structure is "Smallville" style perfect.

They just completed the DECTECTIVE arc, which finally introduces Batman to the Smallville Universe. I really enjoyed it. Enough classic elements with the traditional Smallville twist.

I have grown to greatly dislike the New52 Universe (with the exception of Earth 2), so this has become my current definitive Superman title. :)
 

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yeah, i pretty much gave up reading most of the Nu52 Superman stuff. definitely not my cup of tea. but i've been keeping up with this and reading with Smallville to see whats gonna happen next. enjoyed the Detective arc a lot. it was really cool seeing Batman introduced to Smallville. and definitely think that Nightwing was pretty awesome too.
 

LastSurvivor

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Yep, I'm still onboard with season 11 too. But then I also still like a lot of the New52 stuff. The H'EL on EARTH crossover of Superman, Supergirl and Superboy has gripped me over the last few months. But Smallville too has been a must buy for me. Haunted part 1 was great... just bought part 2 :)
 

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yeah, i've heard from good things bout the H'EL on Earth crossover. but Nu52 Supes just doesn't seem to appeal to me that much anymore. but then again, only superman stuff I really liked was Smallville. and then did like some story-arcs for Supes, like the Brainiac arc that Superman: Unbounded is based on. the New Krypton stuff was pretty interesting to. but after that, just lost interest. did enjoy the Supergirl comic from before and the Superman/Batman story arc that reintroduced her to the DC Universe.
 

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Unbound is something I really look forward to. Although I don't share everyone's opinion here about the New 52 quality, I'll admit that it had its ups and downs. The animated feature films are never dull though. JL: Doom was great, and I'm hoping Unbound will be to.

 

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I am very curious how they are planning on adapting this story, since BRAINIAC set up the excellent New World of Krypton and War of the Supermen series.
 

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been long time since anyone's been posting in this thread. still been keeping up with Smallville. Still happy to see it continuing on. Been also going back and rereading some of the earlier issues. And still been interesting seeing this take on Batman. It'd be really cool to see DC spin it off into its own series. I think that's still been my favorite arc so far too.

And something that feel like DC may have missed on its mark was adapting the New Krypton and War of the Supermen stories in the DC Animated lineup. Those would have been really good to have around the time Man of Steel came out. Maybe they'll get to them tho. Especially since they're now bringing Damian into things for Batman with Son of Batman (which feels like it'd be the Nu52 take on those events), that gives me some hope that maybe they'll do a different take on New Krypton n War of the Supermen.
 

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A bit late to the party on this, but Kryptonsite fooled me good and proper with their April Fools news about the blu-ray complete series set which boasted all new edits of episodes like "Veritas" and "Finale" as well as an animated adaptation of 11's premiere arc "Guardian":(
 

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I just realized that Bryan Q. Miller is the Smallville comics writer, so I might consider reading them although I've never seen a Smallville episode. Bryan Q. Miller's run on pre-reboot Batgirl (2009-2011) is one of my models for what a fun and interesting comic should be. It's personal, hilarious and witty without being smartass/clever, and goes from gritty to lighthearted (sometimes within the same issue) without breaking a sweat. (It's sad that the otherwise dependable Gail Simone screwed up the rebooted Batgirl so badly.)

It's a real shame that the New 52 Superman titles have been so bad. The redone origin by Grant Morrison in Action Comics was great, in my opinion, and the subsequent Brainiac and Mxyptlk stories are just batshit insane stories. Action Comics #15 is probably my favourite single issue since, well, sometime around Morrison's Batman & Robin issues, and I've found a lot more to like in Supergirl than in any of the Superman titles apart form Action.
 

bionicbob

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theslime said:
It's a real shame that the New 52 Superman titles have been so bad. The redone origin by Grant Morrison in Action Comics was great, in my opinion, and the subsequent Brainiac and Mxyptlk stories are just batshit insane stories. Action Comics #15 is probably my favourite single issue since, well, sometime around Morrison's Batman & Robin issues, and I've found a lot more to like in Supergirl than in any of the Superman titles apart form Action.

Grant Morrison needs a very strong, good editor to stand up to him. For some reason, DC has Morrison a blank cheque to do whatever he wants to the DCverse. It is one of the reason why Batman was not rebooted as part of the New52, and why his continuity is a complete mess. While I loved his older stuff like Doom Patrol and JLA, I find his current mainstream reign at DC to be a psychedelic mess.

And yes, DC has completed F#@ked Up when it comes to the Superman reboot! I don't want a darker, more dangerous Superman, a Superman that just might KILL when required (at least that was how they were originally promoting his reboot...uhg).... The whole concept of returning Superman to his roots of the 1930s as anti-establishment, tossing people out of windows type of character may sound interesting on paper, and may have been original in its day, but that was such a brief moment in his 75 year history and let's face it, the comic book verse is now loaded with anti-heroes. Superman as a role model, as an inspiration -- what's wrong with that? I mean the number of comic characters that currently fill that capacity is almost zero. Plus it does not help when each writer since the reboot has a completely different take on Superman, and editors Dideo and Johns seem to have exact opposite intentions for the Nu52..... so ends the rant of a grumpy old comic fanboy.
 

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I completely disagree with your analysis of Morrison's Superman. I found it really refreshing. Supes wasn't depicted as a grim antihero or darker than he used to be, he was just more of a people's hero or something similar with no knowledge (yet) of his alien heritage or why he had those powers. But this perspective only lasted for a few issues anyway, because the portrayal changed as he learned to fly and found out that he was an alien. This worked for me, and the humble beginnings story can even safely co-exist with Morrison's BIG All-Star Superman story because Superman changes a lot after learning who he is. Also, the slightly smartassy Clark Kent with baggy clothes was a really nice touch, and ultimately quite believable without being modern for the sake of it.

I re-read both Byrne's Man of Steel and Waid's Birthrigth recently, and man-oh-man they are terrible. Byrne's later Superman run isn't bad, but the origin story has the most wooden dialogue imaginable.

I don't know what to say to you if you don't like Morrison's Batman. It's my favourite run of any comic in recent years. It's remarkably true to the character as well. It's still Bruce Wayne, while keeping the Neal Adams chest hair super-James Bond and the grim Frank Miller avenger and the JLA team player battling evil aliens. I love it.
 

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I actually really liked John Byrne's run on Superman. And I absolutely LOVED Mark Waid's Birthright. LOL!

I think my main issue is not so much with Morrison, but with DC's editorial management and lack of over all vision. I think the Nu52 took everyone by surprise, it was clearly a left field impromptu decision. Clearly, under Geoff Johns guidance with BRIGHTEST DAY, DC was moving in a very different direction before the Nu52 was announced. And you know I don't have a problem with relaunches. I understand comics is about making money first, and story come second, and a quick easy way to spark new interest is to slap a new shiny NUMBER ONE on a title. I mean I have been reading DC comics since I was 6 years old, almost 40 years... (uhg... when I say it like that I feel very, very, very OLD) and have survived all the various Crisis, Zero Hour, and other reboots. But in every instance, DC always gets cold feet at the last second and only does things half way. When the original CRISIS OF INFINITE EARTHS was planned, the ENTIRE DCverse was supposed to be relaunched from scratch. But because in the end it is all about money, they did not want it to effect their better selling titles. So Wolfman and Perez had to expand the series with another couple of issues and alter the final ending. So you get characters like SUPERMAN and WONDER WOMAN who get complete day one reboots, while BATMAN and GREEN LANTERN are left seemingly unchanged, and the FLASH became a legacy character. Does any of this sound familiar? The Nu52 did the exact same thing. So in the universe that is only 5 years old, Batman now has something like 5 Robins? And a teenage son. I know this is not the real world, but as a long time comic reader I do enjoy a sense of history and continuity.

As for Superman, I admit there are elements of Morrison's work I like. I do enjoy his reverence for over the top Silver Age style stories. But I feel the tone of Superman's character was all over the place depending on title, writer and editor. Superman as written by Morrison was not the same as Perez or Johns. As for Superman being the "Peoples Hero", I really don't understand what this means? Hasn't he always been the people's hero? Superman, to me, is a hero to ALL people. He is here as a symbol and inspiration to all of Humankind. At least that is the Superman I prefer. I mean, I am not against modernizing elements of Superman, I know print and newspapers are almost sadly dead. I really loved JMS SUPERMAN EARTH ONE volumes one and two, and wish the current reboot was closer to this in tone and character.

I dunno... maybe I am just out of touch...LOL.
 

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I meant people's hero in a more populist, down to earth way. A champion. Friend of the huddled, poor, etc. By starting there, Morrison enabled an actual arc for Superman that wasn't all about Smallville because Superman could go all GRAND and BEACON OF HOPE later on and, thus, evolve as a character.

Great post, BTW. I'll answer more later. I think we probably agree more than we disagree. :)
 

theslime

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To me, the 5 years aspect only showed how impossible and ultimately fruitless the idea of completely unifying the DC universe over the course of 52 different titles really is. First of all, there were storylines and runs already going that were planned to go on for far longer than the arbitrary date of summer 2011. At least one of them (Morrison's Batman; probably whatever Johns was doing as well) was a founding principle of the pre-reboot continuity, with Damian, Final Crisis, the missing Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson as Batman, etc. all impacting several other titles. It's kind of a dick move to pull the rug under Morrison's feet like that when so much was riding on his run, but (as you say) it's even less kind to Snyder who's given the thankless task of writing a story that explicitly makes no sense chronologically. (Damian is supposed to be ten, which means that Bruce would have had to meet Talia at least five years before he even became Batman.) I would have been happier with leaving the last issues of Morrison's run in the old continuity, two Batmen and all, and remove Damian from the proceedings entirely. Since the final issues of Batman, Incorporated vol 2 takes place over the course of a really short time anyway, it would have made a lot more sense to wrap it all up and then imagine Flashpoint happened just after his final conversation with Gordon.

Anyway, as you can imagine I like Morrison a lot, and I find his Mxyptlk story one of the few worthwhile Superman stories in recent years - even though it's utterly bonkers. When it comes to Byrne, I was a bit unclear. I actually like his run quite a lot - both the Apokolips story and Luthor refusing to believe evidence that Clark is Superman are great stories. It's just the Man of Steel miniseries I hate. His Bizarro takes everything fun out of the character and replaces it with a "realistic" nothing, and the Smallville scenes were just unbelievably wooden and drab. I didn't help that I read Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow just before, all silver age hilarity and grand emotion, but it's not just that. I actually like the more reasonable superpowers and all that. It's just not well-written. Strangely, once the regular Superman and Action started, it got pretty good (and I like Marv Wolfman too).

I just didn't find anything to like about Birthright. I realize I'm in the minority here (especially in this thread!), but I think Waid's dialogue is terrible and I dislike young Smallville scientist Luthor. They don't need a childhood connection. That's just one of many things I disliked, I could go on (but I won't). :)
 

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I greatly enjoy Morrison's work, he's not everyone's cup of tea but his stories truly felt like they were making a mark on the mythos and giving Batman some renewed purpose. For most of the 2000s the best thing to come out of the Bat books was everything AROUND the central character like Robin, Stephanie, Cass and the Birds of Prey. I found little interest in the Batman comics of the time...oh Bruce is framed for murder, oh it's implied Metallo killed his parents (seriously...what the hell?) oh War Games had Leslie Thompkins act out of character to teach Bruce a lesson, everything was designed to make Bruce feel like a putz unable to be in charge of himself. Morrison put that to right and made Batman a centralized figure, bringing all the strands of the books together at last.
 

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Couldn't agree more. War Games is, IMHO, so terrible that (in hindsight) it seemed like a cry for help, and I can't help but feel that complaining about Morrison's Batman after that abomination is like complaining that Batman Begins wasn't sufficiently like Batman & Robin. The only cool thing about War Games is Stephanie Brown's stint as Robin, but that was technically before the storyline even started, I think.

By taking everything that ever happened to Bruce Wayne in the comics as (more or less) canon (in some way or other), Morrison created an incredibly rich character biography, something that was utterly missing in the drab, soulless Bruce of 2005. The fact that several/most of the stories referenced were non-canon didn't even matter because he twisted them into something new, like the modified Robin Dies at Dawn! and The Superman of Planet X! stories. But all silver age riffing would have been just as tired, and I like the more modern references like Milligan's Barbatos and the repurposing of The Hood as a British super-spy. I find this inspired, especially knowing what came before it. Whether or not you enjoy ELECTRONIC MOLECULES STREAMING FORTH or not. :)

(Another problem with terrible crossover titles, is how it can derail otherwise good storylines (like Ed Brubaker's amazing Catwoman story). Her story would have been better if the title never crossed over with War Games at all. But that's a separate issue.)
 
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