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Site Update Regarding Streaming Services

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Malthus

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Thank you for the announcement. There is a collaborative thread about media with a clear centre channel, perhaps a collaborative thread about "streaming exclusive" content 365+ days old would be useful.
 

Q2

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What about streaming exclusive versions of physically released films? What if I want to use the IMAX version of a Marvel film that doesn't exist on disc?
As it states in the rules: If at any point a physical release or digital download is made available, the editor and anyone viewing the associated fanedit will need to purchase said content.
 

Ender

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Saying that capturing from streaming is okay but only for exclusives is a little arbitrary, but I understand this is a tricky situation and uncharted waters for the community. It seems reasonable to me, at least for the time being. It's a bit of a pain to have to seek out physical copies for things when I want to watch or make a fanedit where I'd usually just stream everything, but I see it as a necessary evil.
 

TM2YC

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It's a bit of a pain to have to seek out physical copies for things when I want to ... make a fanedit

Basing an edit on a physical copy will of course result in a much better looking fanedit, than if one uses a highly compressed digital source, never mind a mega, mega compressed stream source. For that reason I'd always want to continue using physical media for my edits, regardless of any new rules. But if a physical copy isn't available for something, its nice to now have a new option.
 

Ender

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Basing an edit on a physical copy will of course result in a much better looking fanedit, than if one uses a highly compressed digital source
Only if you're competent enough to rip it in uncompressed high quality, which I'm apparently not.
 

Last Impressions

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Only if you're competent enough to rip it in uncompressed high quality, which I'm apparently not.
Do you mean confused by the process of ripping?

Confusion is the first step to learning. Give it a go...plenty of tutorials on this site and you tube. We all didn't know how to do it at some point in our lives. (y)
 

unfair

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Do you mean confused by the process of ripping?

Confusion is the first step to learning. Give it a go...plenty of tutorials on this site and you tube. We all didn't know how to do it at some point in our lives. (y)

For normal BluRay rips I agree with you, it's a bit odd in the context of these new rules though because 99% of people are not going to be able to make a Web-DL quality version of the streaming shows. At best you'll end up with a perfect screen capture, which still isn't the same, and at worst your fluctuating internet connection will result in quality issues with the capture, both resolution and pauses while buffering etc. The process of actually decrypting a file you've purchased is difficult even for those who know what they're doing, and that's the only way you're going to get a high-quality rip of a streaming show.

I'd say I'm on the very high end of competent in a variety of computer and reverse engineering subjects and I spent the better part of a day looking at how to remove the encryption from a show I purchased off Amazon - I just wanted to save it locally for my own collection, and while I understand the process for the most part I still couldn't get it decrypted. So unless someone is going to make a tutorial for all the faneditors to follow, I'm guessing there will be almost no one who can successfully obtain high quality streaming copies on their own.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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I've been seeing a fair amount of posts here and on other sites that say it's too hard to rip physical discs or prep a digital source. In all honesty, that just sounds like someone trying to justify piracy. Competency in ripping a blu ray nd/or obtaining a steaming source isn't something that magically happens. It takes research (Google, forums, etc). It takes trial, error, patience and perseverance. If you're going the streaming routes, it's going to take a chunk of change upfront to buy the necessary programs to get those files. There are no free options to do so. Some of these programs are over $100 dollars. The source files produced by these programs also fluctuates between 1/4 and 1/2 quality when compared to physical Blu ray disks. There are few programs that I know of that can actually obtain 4k streams at the moment.

For context, I use iTunes for some sources. The program I use to decrypt the m4a movie files set me back around $40. It only works on older versions of iTunes too. So any program that you buy is subject to be rendered obsolete as new encryption models are developed. iTunes files are encoded at ~6mbps (~1/4 the quality of 25gb blu rays and 1/8 the quality of a 50gb Blu ray disc). You get an inferior product and inferior source file as a result. Ultimately, it's cheaper and higher quality to go physical.
 

unfair

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In all honesty, that just sound like someone trying to justify piracy.

I don't have any horse in this race, no plans to submit any streaming edits, I just don't really see the logic of requiring users to buy questionable and unreliable programs to rip content off different streaming platforms. It seems like this is a carryover from trying to protect the content creators by making sure people buy the content, except in this case people are already paying for the content and the payments are going to third parties helping pirate the content, which seems a bit backward. In this case the content creators would actually frown on you paying for tools that they're actively trying to stop.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to verify that the person has a streaming subscription when they submit the edit, and not care what source they used? (obviously assuming in this scenario that it's an item that doesn't have a BluRay release, per the rules)

Not trying to start a big argument, just wondering if there's a less rigid way to handle supporting content creators while not making life difficult for editors. Not everyone has extra money to throw around on tools that don't actually contribute anything to the hobby, for that cost a person could buy other movies/subscriptions, a better editing program, or anything else that adds tangible value.
 

Wraith

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I just won't go down the streaming capture route, especially after my single foray, which I ultimately went with the Blu Ray.

The reason I won't go down the streaming route is you need to share your user credentials with the stream rip/capture app...I am just not willing to share that information; PERIOD!
 

INIGHTMARES

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@DigModiFicaTion do you use a separate PC with the old iTunes or do you run a VM?

I want to make an edit for a show I bought on iTunes and have been doing my research. I probably found the same program as you, but I don't have a second PC to run an old version of iTunes. I already use iTunes daily for music, and I haven't yet learned how to run a virtual machine.
 
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DigModiFicaTion

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@DigModiFicaTion do you use a separate PC with the old iTunes or do you run a VM?

I want to make an edit for a show I can bought on iTunes and have been doing my research. I probably found the same program as you, but I don't have a second PC to run an old version of iTunes. I already use iTunes daily for music, and I haven't yet learned how to run a virtual machine.
I use Tuneskit. It only works with iTunes up to version 12.9.0.167
I don't have any access issues with the older version so I just use that on my current rig. I'm not an apple user so I only use it for movies. I haven't used a virtual machine, so I don't know if it can do that. I believe iTunes authenticates the computer rather than the program so it may not work. I know it didn't work when I installed a portable version of iTunes.
 

addiesin

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I use Leawo Prof DRM removal. Works on modern HD itunes, not sure about 4k, haven't looked at or tried that resolution, don't even know if Apple has it. Kind of an annoying program to buy and to use, but it's 30 bucks normally and sometimes 20 on sale, and if you want it and need help finding it or figuring out how to buy it, look at my attached image, I have unchecked what you don't want, and checked what you do want.

 

tremault

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I just don't really see the logic of requiring users to buy questionable and unreliable programs to rip content off different streaming platforms.
The logic is generally always going to be legality and keeping content creators satisfied that we are not hurting them.
These things have been talked about over and over across the internet over many years.
It's best to just accept that this is the rules the Admins and Mods have devised, they're only going to get annoyed if people keep asking them to justify themselves. Read the info in the site's about page and FAQs. It should be clear where they are coming from.
I get that you feel pressured by additional expenses, but this is just a reality of the hobby.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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Also, no one here is requiring anyone to buy any program. The reality is if one chooses to go that route, they will need to invest funds to do so. You can screen capture using free programs, but it will be subject to many source based issues that most likely wouldn't meet IFDB standards.
 

addiesin

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And to be extra clear, what I posted is only for removing DRM from iTunes video, not for screencapping.
 

unfair

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The logic is generally always going to be legality and keeping content creators satisfied that we are not hurting them.
These things have been talked about over and over across the internet over many years.
It's best to just accept that this is the rules the Admins and Mods have devised, they're only going to get annoyed if people keep asking them to justify themselves. Read the info in the site's about page and FAQs. It should be clear where they are coming from.
I get that you feel pressured by additional expenses, but this is just a reality of the hobby.

I'm not sure how buying tools from pirates that the content creators are trying to fight is keeping them satisfied, like I said it seems like it would be more logical to require verification of the streaming subscription upon submission, rather than trying to foist sketchy tools that might steal your Amazon/Netflix account credentials on people.

I'm not asking anyone to justify it, just pointing out the reasons that basically no one will make a streaming edit even though it's technically allowed. It's just food for thought since the rules are either carryovers from physical media that weren't fully thought through, or intentionally crafted to discourage anyone from actually making a streaming edit while ending any debate about them not being allowed. If it's the latter, fine, but if it's the former then my comments might be useful for consideration.

Like I said, I have no plans to submit a streaming show edit, but I'd hate to see other people get their cards or identities stolen just because they were trying to adhere to a forum rule that has nothing to do with protecting content creators. Most people have a very limited knowledge of data security and you're asking them to wade into an area rife with opportunities for people to get taken advantage of. It's a lot different than needing a BluRay player to rip a disc.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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I'm not sure how buying tools from pirates that the content creators are trying to fight is keeping them satisfied, like I said it seems like it would be more logical to require verification of the streaming subscription upon submission, rather than trying to foist sketchy tools that might steal your Amazon/Netflix account credentials on people.

I'm not asking anyone to justify it, just pointing out the reasons that basically no one will make a streaming edit even though it's technically allowed. It's just food for thought since the rules are either carryovers from physical media that weren't fully thought through, or intentionally crafted to discourage anyone from actually making a streaming edit while ending any debate about them not being allowed. If it's the latter, fine, but if it's the former then my comments might be useful for consideration.

Like I said, I have no plans to submit a streaming show edit, but I'd hate to see other people get their cards or identities stolen just because they were trying to adhere to a forum rule that has nothing to do with protecting content creators. Most people have a very limited knowledge of data security and you're asking them to wade into an area rife with opportunities for people to get taken advantage of. It's a lot different than needing a BluRay player to rip a disc.
The rule does state that you must have the subscription. The rule does not require anyone to buy any programs.

There are and will continue to be editors who use streaming sources. To say otherwise would be a denial of what is currently happening on other major fanediting platforms.

I assure you that admin have been extremely thoughtful in developing this new adjustment to the OTS rule. This has been discussed among them for quite some time.

In regards to cards and identities stolen. I'd recommend doing due diligence in making sure any company that one purchases a good or service from is legit. There are also payment companies like PayPal that you can use as a shield to not give out your card info. Ultimately if someone is concerned with being linked to a streaming edit, they simply shouldnt do it.

Again, the rule says nothing about buying a tool. It says that you can't torrent. I just simply pointed out, not speaking as staff, that there are no free options for producing the highest quality sources. Screen captures are most often pretty trashy looking and would struggle to meet IFDB standards of quality, imo. So, those janky pirate programs that you refer to are most likely going to be necessary to obtain the source at the highest quality possible.
 

INIGHTMARES

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...rather than trying to foist sketchy tools that might steal your Amazon/Netflix account credentials on people... Like I said, I have no plans to submit a streaming show edit...
@unfair I think you misunderstand what is allowed to be turned into a fanedit. If I understand it correctly, if you cannot buy the show, you cannot edit the show. For instance, Obi Wan is only streaming, thus you cannot edit this show because you cannot buy this show.
 

addiesin

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@unfair I think you misunderstand what is allowed to be turned into a fanedit. If I understand it correctly, if you cannot buy the show, you cannot edit the show. For instance, Obi Wan is only streaming, thus you cannot edit this show because you cannot buy this show.
That's what this thread's about, a rule change. Now you can edit that show, but only a year after it's been released, and can only use the screen capture of the show if it hasn't also been released in a purchasable format like iTunes or disc.
 
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