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Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music?

ThrowgnCpr

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I don't think it would work with 2 languages. It is incredibly hard successfully with the same language track. Of course, I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but I suspect this wouldn't work in practice.
 

emanswfan

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seciors said:
If someone could explain how to do this, that would be pretty cool. I don't really understand why using two different languages would be necessary, but hey, a lot of this audio stuff is over my head! (I really do wish I understood audio better!)
The reason for this would be, assuming that you are using the same mixes (which you can verify if you are beforehand), the only difference between the two would be the dialogue. The music and SFX would be the same. So through the right workflow (possibly what I described above), you could obtain music and SFX alone and use it to seperate the dialogue from the music in the original track. For sure, there has to be some way for this to work.
 

emanswfan

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ThrowgnCpr said:
I don't think it would work with 2 languages. It is incredibly hard successfully with the same language track. Of course, I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but I suspect this wouldn't work in practice.
Well, I am going test it out soon enough and I'll post the results here, I'm certain I can get it to work to someway or another.
 

TMBTM

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emanswfan said:
I know it would depend on a movie's DVD or Bluray specs, but if you had two corresponding language mixes, could you use it to seperate the dialogue from the music/SFX? For example I take an original (probably english) mix and invert it's phase with the corresponding spanish (or french or whatever) mix (same 5.1, 2.0, or 1.0 mix) and it should theoretically cancel everything out except those two types of dialogue.

That kinda works... Well only when the mix are 100% the same, and that's 90% of the time never the case (from my experience).

emanswfan said:
Than if you mixed the mixes together and used the result from the first inversion, you could cancel out the dialogue and be left with the music/SFX

I think I tried that long ago, it did not work, because if you have your audio with the two languages mixed without sound/music as the result of an inverting phase method, then one of this language is inverted and not the other. Meaning that if you try to redo the "invert method" you'll still end with a voice in the mix.
But like Throw: I'd like to be proven wrong. Oh yeah.
 

TMBTM

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Okay, this is a new little theory of mine,

I did not try it yet, and since I'm not a math guy at all, I could very possibly went wrong with my reasoning.

So...

IF, and only IF center chanel (audio english) and (audio french) share the same EXACT mix (and it is rarely, if never, the case... so I guess all this theory means nothing in the end, lol) then:

Step 1: (audio english) + inverted (audio french) = English voices mixed with inverted french voices

Step 2: (audio english) + (English voices mixed with inverted french voices) = (audio french (with french voices being inverted)) mixed with (english voices at volume level X2)

Step 3: (audio french (with french voices being inverted)) mixed with (english at volume level X2) + (audio french) = (audio english (with voices at volume level X2)

Step 4: (audio english (with voices at volume level X2) + (inverted audio english) = .... English voices at original volume level.

Step 5: (audio english) + inverted (English voices at original volume level) = (audio english) minus english voices...


EDIT: All this reasoning is based on the supposition that an inverted audio removes half of the same original audio if its level is twice the same. And this is not a given.
 

RollWave

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step 3 would end with 2x Audio. Then step 4 just ends with the original audio english, not isolated voices.

.....start................step 1............... step 2.............. step 3............. step 4
(audio english) - (audio french) + (audio english) + (audio french) - (audio english) = (audio english)

step 3 just undoes step 1 and step 4 undoes step 2.
 

seciors

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If anyone gets this to work, PLEASE show how to do it using a video demonstration or provide detailed step-by-step instructions, preferably using tools that are cross platform like audacity. :)
 

TMBTM

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Yeah, step 3 gets double the music... must return to my reasoning lol
 

TV's Frink

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Double the music, twice the fall. :p
 

TMBTM

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TV's Frink said:
Double the music, twice the fall. :p

At least at the end of step 2 I give you an audio with english voices at volume level X2! Maybe useful as a base to use removal filters on it. (okay there is also french voices in the mix too now... but the english are louder :p should please you!)
 

emanswfan

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I'm thinking this through too, in someway it's possible. If you can't perfectly invert it out, noise removal filters would work properly because there would be enough difference in volume.
 

reaper18783x

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hi i was wondering if anyone could tell me some cool program to do sound editing with as i am trying to separate music from the talking (ext), so i can put a whole new soundtrack in an edit i am doing i am using Sony Vegas 12
any help would be much appreciated

thanks
reaper18783x
 

TV's Frink

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Threads merged.

reaper18783x, please read through this thread, it may answer your questions.
 

TV's Frink

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Bump in order to re-share this from ot.com:

NeverarGreat said:
Alright, I've been looking for some free options for reducing the center channel of the AC3 file some more, and came across KnOckOut, a plugin for Audacity. Placing the center channel above the right channel, I then pulled the center channel to read as a left channel, and pulled the right channel to read as the right channel. This is so Knockout thinks that it is a simple stereo file. Playing with the settings allowed for a really impressive result. Leia's voice is hardly garbled at all, and except for a single errant note, I was hard pressed to hear any music. This is more than sufficient for incorporating into a trailer, methinks.


The only problem was that this didn't work. It only worked when I clicked the "preview" option, which played the first five seconds perfectly. Trying to apply the effect to the whole track did absolutely nothing except amplify the track. So I did what any sane person would do and recorded the five second previews with Windows Audio Recorder and stitched them together in Audacity. Here are the settings, if anyone else is interested in working from the AC3 audio:



Knockout settings for Leia Reconstituted Audio:


Vocals plus music on top, left panned. Right music channel on bottom, right panned.


Select both tracks, start Knockout. Extract Centre off, R input gain 13 dB, Output gain 8 dB, all other settings off.


preview section, record with windows audio recorder.


The moral of this story: It is quite possible to isolate the Leia hologram speech, with some effort.

Here's a quick example I worked up of how this can help:


Also, I've added a link to the ot.com post in the first post of this thread for easy reference.
 

TMBTM

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Not bad if the new voice was played above a new music.
But I've done as good using the simple noise removal from audacity (sometime also mixed with the "Dynamics" filter of Premiere Pro. A filter that can remove all sound behind or above a certain level.)

I've read this post at ot.com a while ago, but I did not understand what the guy said, to be fair.
I'll double check it.
 

TV's Frink

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TMBTM said:
I've done as good

We're not all as talented and hard-working as you ;)

The results seem to vary based on what else is going on. Here's one where the removal seems to have worked a bit better (ignore the overall quality, I used a terrible recording setting by accident):

 

TMBTM

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Yeah, it's not that bad, indeed. Still some noise of course, but the music is gone.
Maybe it's a more automated way to remove music than using the noise removal filter.
Maybe a mix between those two tools could do wonders.
 

Neglify

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TV's Frink said:

Can you redo this video without using a "terrible recording setting"?

I read some of that OT thread and I watched your videos. Sounds pretty tinny, would still be jarring to my Eyres. Agree with Mask that you'd need a second program/editor to balance it out.

But yeah seriously, I should check this program out. It could produce really nice results.
 
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