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Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music?

Toonloon

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I have a scene where I need to remove the music from. I've heard that if the music is in the rear channels, you can somehow remove it.

How would I got about this please? Does anyone know?
 

TV's Frink

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Well...if it's only in the rear channels, you can cut those tracks out of your timeline. Not sure if that's what you mean, however.

More information would be helpful.
 

Toonloon

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It's a deleted scene on the Thing 2011 BD. I think it's only in stereo. I'm using Premiere CS5.5
 

TMBTM

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Problem is that music can usualy sitll be heard in the center audio channel, along with voices and sound effects.
If you are lucky, then there will be no music left, but if you still listen to some of it then you're in for a headache to make it sound good.
Several threads already speak about that in the "technical" forum.
 

TMBTM

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Oh. stereo.... Then you're maybe f...ed.
Try the technical forums though. There are tricks.
Like the "invert" method. But this method, would probably let you with the music only and not the voices...
 

geminigod

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Toonloon, a bit of constructive feedback about posting. First, this thread is better off being in the audio editing forum section. Second, I didn't even have to do a search to find multiple relevant existing threads about what you are trying to accomplish. Just click on the audio editing forum and they are all right there on the very 1st page you look at. Please do more research before asking for help, and then you can add any further questions you may have to those already existing threads.
 

TV's Frink

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geminigod said:
this thread is better off being in the audio editing forum section
Moved. Thanks for catching that.
 
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boon23 said:
use 2 waves of the same section, invert one and put it on the original wave. Result: silence.
If you do this with just a part of the sound (for example the music) the music will be deleted, but the rest will stay. This also works with noise or a voice.

I don't understand. How do I do this in Sound Forge? I want to delete the music and keep the voices.
 

geminigod

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That article makes it sound easy, but it rarely works for music. Works great for removing vocals though!

You have to have identical music in two different tracks lined up on the exact same millisecond and with the exact same amplitudes & frequencies (i.e., the wave forms have to be identical). Then based on linear wave addition theory, they should cancel each other when you invert the phase of one track so that the waves are inverted from the other. (Picture a sine wave in your head. As one wave is moving up from the axis, the other is now moving down from the axis with the same pitch & power.) Then when you render out a new track with the two combined, they cancel each other out to a net zero amplitude.
 
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geminigod said:
That article makes it sound easy, but it rarely works for music.

I'm working on a fanedit for the remake/reboot/whatever of Friday the 13th and I want to delete the section when Lawrence makes a jokes to Chelsea that "because he's black he can't listen to green day?" but in the very next scene they enter Trent's house and you have rap music play all over the scene even in the front middle track (not loud but it's there in the background) does anyone have any experience with soundsoap, I have heard that that program should be good, and wondering if it's worth trying out. I tried the free-ware Audacity and that only works if you're going to "hide" the original score with another one, on its own it ends up sounding like the dialog is under water or something.
 

TMBTM

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Audacity have a remove noise filter that works well, kind of like soundsoap, IMO.
You have to choose the sound you'd like to remove (in this case you want to select a part of the rap music, but a part without the voice)
then you can play with the option (attack rate, smooth, etc..) then you apply the filter on your audio.
The voices would maybe sound a bit strange (like muted a bit, or like if the characters are under water) because some frequencies of the voices could match the music you want to remove. But if you play with the options a bit, maybe you'll find a way to make it sound "okay". Of course if you then add another music in place of the rap, then the trick might work better (new music, or increase the background sound effect, like wind, vehicules, people walking, talking etc...)

Another tool that it useful on premiere pro is the "dynamic" filter.
Activate the first option: AGOn/off
then play with the AGthresh and AG attack.
Basicaly each time a sound is a bit louder than your option setting you'll hear it and every other sounds before and after will be muted.
Of course this wll not really remove the rap music during the dialogue, but it can be useful tool sometime.

EDIT: if you find a "quick and easy" way to really remove a background music blended with voices on a center channel, then you'll become the god of fanediting.
 

geminigod

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TMBTM said:
EDIT: if you find a "quick and easy" way to really remove a background music blended with voices on a center channel, then you'll become the god of fanediting.

Fanediting in these situations is as much about creativity as it is technical skill. You kinda have to become a magician skilled in the art of illusion. It can be frustrating but also rewarding when it finally comes together and your slight of hand trick becomes invisible to the audience.

That said, if it is a well-known rap song that is straight off of an album, you could try to find a copy and play with the wave cancelling trick... I have honestly only half-assedly tried this once and it only cut out a partial range of frequencies. It sounded different but not really any quieter. One of these days I will have to try again with a bit more of a scientific approach. If anybody can perfect this method, please come back and teach us!

PS: Any program you might buy, the noise removing filter will not be much better than Audacity's. I have played with a few different ones. Music just covers way too wide a range of frequencies and there is no way to not damage your dialogue in the process. Those noise removal filters are really only effective with a very specific repeating noise.
 

Syfo-Dyas

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I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.

In other cases they removed the audio effects layers and added their own.

Doing a quick Google search reveals that no one seems to know anything about how to do this, or even claims that it is impossible, but again, I have seen it down, so it must be possible.

So I'm wondering if anyone here would care to share the secret with me. I'd really like to remove the sound track from Titan A.E.

Thank you in advance!
 

TV's Frink

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Wait a minute...
 

TV's Frink

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Threads merged...and it looks like I need to merge a few more too.
 

Rogue-theX

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TV's Frink said:
Threads merged...and it looks like I need to merge a few more too.

Please and thank you with a cherry on top :)
 

njvc

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Syfo-Dyas said:
I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.

In other cases they removed the audio effects layers and added their own.

Doing a quick Google search reveals that no one seems to know anything about how to do this, or even claims that it is impossible, but again, I have seen it down, so it must be possible.

So I'm wondering if anyone here would care to share the secret with me. I'd really like to remove the sound track from Titan A.E.

Thank you in advance!

Hi Syfo-Dyas (and others who are asking this question). there are many great tips already in this thread on how to achieve this, but since I have been battling this challenge in my recent edits, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as well. Gemini is right, it is most often a case of slight of hand.

Life is a LOT easier if you can split a 5.1 surround track into 6 mono tracks, and isolate the dialogue (normally in the centre channel). Mostly, however, even the centre track has some spill. In these cases, tricks are required.

You can try the very technical "inverse" effect if you like, but what I prefer is to chop up the mono source into only the pieces you require - i.e. the dialogue, and create complete silence all around what is needed, then add new sound effects, foley and music around those chopped up pieces you want to keep from the original source - Essentially rebuilding the audio in the scene. Often this works really well, and if you edit it smoothly enough, will be totally convincing.

One of the challenges with this technique is that sometimes the spilled score still pokes through behind the chopped up dialogue that you have retained from the original audio source. Given that you have already discarded most of the mono track, these will generally be unrecognisable, but still annoying and noticeable within your final mix. In this case, you can apply a filter - I usually try to EQ the background noise, but as many have already said, this can have a big impact on your dialogue track (i.e., removing all the bass/treble), so it's a pay off/cost equation to find the right balance. You can also mix the background foley/music a little louder in those moments to "bandaid" over the problematic music. This is where the slight of hand comes in. You need to be creative about how to cover it up. If problems persist, consider cutting the scene to get rid of the line/s of dialogue with music bleed that can't be gotten rid of.

That's how I do it anyway.
 

geminigod

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Syfo-Dyas said:
I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.

njvc said:
Gemini is right, it is most often a case of slight of hand.

Did I say that? I was totally lying. Njvc's illuminating post above reveals that, while his fanedits are amazing, he is in fact not a true magician but just a conjurer of cheap tricks. The truth is some of us here do possess real magical powers.

Syfo-Dyas, you must choose. Follow njvc and spend months learning about technology, tricks, & illusion, or follow me into the black void where anything is possible with a simple thought and click of a button.

I can teach the arcane secrets of our fanediting order, Syfo-Dyas, but first you must demonstrate your devotion to the order by meditating in a sensory depravation chamber for 48 hours and then egging George Lucas's mailbox. You must also pray to Tv's Frink thrice daily, or I fear there will be nothing any of us can do for you. No force of nature can withstand his wrath.

(Now I really need to re-watch The Prestige.)
 
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