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Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music?

TV's Frink

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Thanks. I recently bought Pro so I'll have to see if it's in there.

Side note: I can't use Pro until I'm done with my current edit, because some of the video transition effects plugins I am using in Studio are not included in the Pro version. GDISM.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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TV's Frink said:
Thanks. I recently bought Pro so I'll have to see if it's in there.

Side note: I can't use Pro until I'm done with my current edit, because some of the video transition effects plugins I am using in Studio are not included in the Pro version. GDISM.

really? they aren't in a shared plugins folder? This might be a stretch, but you might want to check the installation folder for the plugin files. It might be possible to copy the Studio effects over to the Pro directory.
 

TV's Frink

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I will try that, but this is the response I got from Sony Creative:

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. Unfortunately the reason these plug-ins cannot be viewed in Vegas Pro 13 is that they are host-locked to Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 11. Meaning that they will only be visible and able to run in Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 11. Without Vegas Movie Studio Platinum available on your system they won't even be able to install.

If this is true, I'm pretty pissed. Maybe it's my fault for assuming something functional in Studio 11 would work in Pro 13.
 

cubbyguy1

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I am just wondering if this is a thing.

Do fan editors share "templates"?

What I mean is, has anyone say edited the audio for a movie so that all the channels are separated... One file with just dialogue, one file with just music, one with sound effects... etc and then shared it on the internet for people to use?

I'm just wondering, it's not a big deal. It'd be awesome if say this existed for all of the Star Wars movies. (since they are probably he most fan edited films of all time I would guess if this existed for any movies those would be it)

I've separated the channels of The Force Awakens with a program I learned about on the forums here (name is escaping me right now and I'm on a work computer).. but there is still music and sfx in all the channels. Am I looking for a shortcut to not have to learn how to create these myself? Yes.

That's why it's no big deal. I just wanted to ask.

Thanks
 

addiesin

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Simply put: No. 

There is no shortcut. There are 3 solutions: 
1 experimenting with free noise reduction plugins in common audio editing programs
2 expensive software that can edit the audio spectrum (spectralayers or izotope rx)
3 re-recording sound-alike dialogue with voice actors, and rebuilding sound fx from scratch using a library of collected sounds. 
4 working around the restrictions you have (catch-all "other" option). 

I'd say option 1 is your best bet. But do some research, see what you can find.
 

TV's Frink

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How does option 1 work?  I've never come across it before.

I've played around with the trial version of Spectralayers a couple of times and I just find it too difficult/time-consuming.

Honestly I think option 3 is the best for removing dialogue.  Maybe not so much for removing sfx/music unless you've got a good voice-over person.
 

addiesin

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In my experience, Noise Reduction or Noise Removal effects usually let you set a Noise Profile, where you select a few seconds of the sounds you want to get rid of. Then you make a selection of audio you want to apply the effect to. (In theory you could make a profile of a section where music is playing, then apply the effect with that profile onto a section where there is music and dialogue, the frequencies present in the music would be treated as "noise" by the effect). You may get useable results this way, or you go too far you'll end up with audio with that underwater-ish low-bitrate mp3 sound. If it's only a little washy sounding, you can maybe add room noise, new score, or other effects to hide or repair minor audio damage. 

I suggested it as the best option because it's free and a good way to dip your toes into the crazy world of repairing/working with "damaged" audio. 

--------------------

Another interesting option, I had forgotten about before, is phase inversion. How it works: Get a sample of movie audio, like a stereo track from an old dvd with both dialogue and music. Get the official soundtrack for that movie, but make sure it's the same "version" of music that is used in the movie, not alternate takes or remastered editions or anything like that. Place the audio track with the mixed dialogue and music into your audio editor. Place the separate music from the soundtrack with a track that matches what's in the film exactly. Get the position and volume to match. "Invert" the music-only track. You are left with audio minus the music. It's like magic when it works, but it's very difficult to get it right (I've never gotten it to work perfectly the way I described here, it's hard).

This would work with stereo tracks where you can match them up correctly. I don't know what must be done differently for surround sound, as that music is typically mixed differently than what's available on a cd or stereo release. 


--------------------

If any of these sound interesting, please look deeper into them. I'm in no way an expert, I'm more of an enthusiast.
 

addiesin

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It can be pretty amazing when it works well. I use it to get rid of camera noise or computer fan noise in my voiceover stuff. 

For some reason it reminds me of the Content Aware Fill feature in Photoshop. Different media, visual vs audio but similar "magic... when it works" kind of thing.
 
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I'm new to this. I've really enjoyed a lot of Fan Edits and there are a lot of Star Wars edits but as far as I know, not the one I'd like to see. The first Star Wars movie is held in high regard but I don't think it has aged as well as The Empire Strikes Back. I think the main problem isn't that new material needed to be added, but that more should have been cut, not taking scenes out, but just trimming the fat. But when I think about how you do this with the score and the dialog overlapping, it's not clear to me how it can be done unless the dialog exists somewhere without the score. 

So what is the work around here? How have others handled this problem?
 

addiesin

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Todd Merrick Novak said:
I'm new to this. I've really enjoyed a lot of Fan Edits and there are a lot of Star Wars edits but as far as I know, not the one I'd like to see. The first Star Wars movie is held in high regard but I don't think it has aged as well as The Empire Strikes Back. I think the main problem isn't that new material needed to be added, but that more should have been cut, not taking scenes out, but just trimming the fat. But when I think about how you do this with the score and the dialog overlapping, it's not clear to me how it can be done unless the dialog exists somewhere without the score. 

So what is the work around here? How have others handled this problem?

Thread merged with existing thread where I already gave feedback for this question to someone else. 

Also, renamed existing thread so it's easier to find since thread title originally did not describe subject.
 

TheRadHatter

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Ok, so I know next to nothing about editing, but want to edit some trailers for movies that aren't out yet. Is there a way to edit the music and dialogue separately? Otherwise any edit I do is going to be horrible because of inconsistent music. Thank you.
 

beezo

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Unfortunately, this is not likely.  Dialog and sound effects are usually present on a film's center channel while the film's score is typically found on the left and right channels.  It is only possible to rip these independent sound channels if you have the source material - DVD, BluRay, Digital Download, etc...  With a trailer, the best you're likely to get is a downmix of just Left and Right stereo that has dialog, sound effects and music all together.

Even if you wait until the BluRay comes out to edit the trailer, that might not be fruitful because the trailers included as supplement material is not always mixed in 5.1 (which allows for channel separation) and it too may be a stereo downmix (like what is on YouTube.

So, if you want to make a trailer like you're suggesting, you'll likely have to do it from scratch with the BluRay source when it becomes available.
 

addiesin

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TheRadHatter said:
Ok, so I know next to nothing about editing, but want to edit some trailers for movies that aren't out yet. Is there a way to edit the music and dialogue separately? Otherwise any edit I do is going to be horrible because of inconsistent music. Thank you.

Another thread with same question merged... Again.
 

TV's Frink

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You ain't seen nothing yet.

Merged threads merged into this one.
 

addiesin

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Now we're rocking! 
Even if only because the rock music is bleeding into the center channel.
 

Kal-El

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TVs Frink said:
You ain't seen nothing yet.

Merged threads merged into this one.


Merged threads merged into this thread? A merge inside a merge inside a merge? mind =bl...merged!
Also, great info in this thread regardless, thanks!
 

randomideaguy

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TVs Frink said:
Holy [REDACTED] man, how have I never come across noise reduction before?

Check this out.


Using this method:

http://www.podfeet.com/blog/recording/how-to-remove-noise-with-audacity/
Thanks for posting. I've been experimenting with Audacity to mixed results. I'll have to try this when I get home. 

In general, do you guys recommend mixing the audio a section at a time? I ask because I'd like to completely rescore a film but Audacity doesn't seem to like when I try "Noise Reduction" on the entire episode length (about an hour). It usually only seems effective for the first couple of minutes of the track.
 

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I'm considering doing a "spy-less" version of "Cars 2" and have pulled the audio from BluRay. Got all 6 channels ready to go, and while some of the dialogue is in the surround channels, most of it is in the center channel - along with the score. If I use one of the other dialog-free channels, is it possible to create filters that will leave primarily the dialogue?

Since the movie is 75% spy nonsense, there will be some aggressive edits, but I'm most interested in knowing if I can clean up some of the other scenes that are relevant to the edit I want to produce.
 
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