Matrix Reimagined version 1.5 is now released...

[NewSpock]

I write a review, then go watch a couple of documentaries about European Art and American Rock and come back to 2 pages of discussion :shock:

I actually watched your edit as soon as I got it 4 days ago but knowing it was the first review and would be partly critical I thought "I'll wait and write it tomorrow when some other, hopefully fully positive reviews have come in to offset it". But since nobody had and I was in danger of forgetting my impressions I posted it (Maybe I should have waited longer ). Sorry if it came across as overly harsh, I didn't mean it to. As I said...

"I'd highly recommend this edit and it will probably be forever replacing the Theatrical Cut of M1 for me"

But I couldn't give it a perfect score (That it probably deserves) because it didn't live up the billing by a long chalk. I've been caught out in the past by "Mis-selling" certain aspects of my own edits. You live you learn. If the community thinks this scoring is unfair I'll gladly change it all to 10/10s.

In my defence...

You'll note that I said "12 minutes" of footage was used in my review. I said that because I looked up all the running times of the trilogy, fed them into my calculator and worked it out. If you say it was "15 minutes" then perhaps you cut 3 minutes of Matrix1? The point is that I had to work it out for myself after viewing the edit. Before watching the edit I had no idea how much the 3 films had been mixed. You could of used 15 minutes of Matrix1 and used 133 minutes of M1&M2 for all I knew? If you'd included just this small bit of info, my expectations would have been fully managed.

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And if you tied up the whole Matrix story, I'm sorry I must have missed it. Unless I'm mistaken, all the Squiddy machines were still alive (They just retreated), all the agents (Except smith) were still alive, all the humans were still enslaved in the powerplant, the Matrix was still fully functional and the machines still ruled the planet. As I said in my review, your ending was better than the original but it wasn't the ending promised IMO.

If you want to add a response to my review, IFDB allows you too. I've added some responses to reviews of my own edits but I don't think anybody goes back to read them though .

(Added spoiler warning to review as requested )

Finally can I make it clear...

GO WATCH THIS EDIT. IT'S FANTASTIC! (and is better and more complex than the original cut of Matrix1).

Thanks TMY2C,

and please don't change your score. You should always stand by your impression. It was my fault to not have made things very clear in the first place.

And besides there should always be a controversial score to make things more interesting.

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As to the ending: That's the whole point of the story about the prophecy, that the one would end the war and free humanity, and that's what he does. He doesn't need to actually kill all agents and the machines. The machines are all interconnected, all he needed was to break their code and that's what he did when he became the one and saw through the code.

The very thing that was used by the machines to enslave humanity, the matrix, became then the very tool through which Neo saves humanity, because the machines are interconnected with the matrix and when Neo woke up from the dead, saw through the code, jumped into the agent and bended the reality of the matrix, that was the end of the machine's rule.

His telephone call with the screen's message "System freeze" further underlined. What happens thereafter can be left to the imagination.
The thing is to really enjoy this version, one needs to forget a bit the sequels and the original's version of the story and take it for itself as a fresh story.

 

[wayne.workman2012]

I have to say I loved the sequels of the Matrix.

I think I read somewhere that you listed Morpheus taking the interstate as being suicide and doing it anyways....
You listed that as like a flaw or weakness or lack of judgement or something... You listed other reasons why you
disliked the sequels also but I can't remember them at this moment.

About deciding to take the interstate....

Look at the situation it in it's context.... like a sinking boat... If you don't jump into the small shaky raft that can't survive one single swell of the ocean... if you don't get into that little raft....


you - will - drown


If the nearest exit is on the interstate and you've got the key-maker in your backseat and like 2 agents and the Merovingian's ghost dudes on your ass every moment of the ride.........

Take the highway and hope for the best, because all the rest will surely result in death. Especially with Neo having ended up so far away when he went through the door/jump/teleporter thing and ended up in the mountains of BFE... without Neo, Morpheus was FORCED to make the difficult choice - It's leadership.

So this is why I haven't watched this edit. And if anyone wants to retort - please use the quote feature - it gives me an email notice.

 

[NewSpock]

I have to say I loved the sequels of the Matrix.

I think I read somewhere that you listed Morpheus taking the interstate as being suicide and doing it anyways....
You listed that as like a flaw or weakness or lack of judgement or something... You listed other reasons why you
disliked the sequels also but I can't remember them at this moment.

About deciding to take the interstate....

Look at the situation it in it's context.... like a sinking boat... If you don't jump into the small shaky raft that can't survive one single swell of the ocean... if you don't get into that little raft....


you - will - drown


If the nearest exit is on the interstate and you've got the key-maker in your backseat and like 2 agents and the Merovingian's ghost dudes on your ass every moment of the ride.........

Take the highway and hope for the best, because all the rest will surely result in death. Especially with Neo having ended up so far away when he went through the door/jump/teleporter thing and ended up in the mountains of BFE... without Neo, Morpheus was FORCED to make the difficult choice - It's leadership.

So this is why I haven't watched this edit. And if anyone wants to retort - please use the quote feature - it gives me an email notice.

Yes, I listed that as one of those cringemoments, but these cringe-moments are just the symptoms (some of them can be argued, some justified, but), there's something underneath the whole story of the sequels that I find just wrong.

That's why I made this edit. Of course there are fans of the sequels and I respect that and there are dozens of matrix edits giving the sequels the time of day trying to make them more enjoyable, so everyone can choose what to watch and enjoy.

 

[TM2YC]

Thanks TMY2C,

and please don't change your score. You should always stand by your impression. It was my fault to not have made things very clear in the first place.

And besides there should always be a controversial score to make things more interesting.

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As to the ending: That's the whole point of the story about the prophecy, that the one would end the war and free humanity, and that's what he does. He doesn't need to actually kill all agents and the machines. The machines are all interconnected, all he needed was to break their code and that's what he did when he became the one and saw through the code.

The very thing that was used by the machines to enslave humanity, the matrix, became then the very tool through which Neo saves humanity, because the machines are interconnected with the matrix and when Neo woke up from the dead, saw through the code, jumped into the agent and bended the reality of the matrix, that was the end of the machine's rule.

His telephone call with the screen's message "System freeze" further underlined. What happens thereafter can be left to the imagination.
The thing is to really enjoy this version, one needs to forget a bit the sequels and the original's version of the story and take it for itself as a fresh story.

Okay cool .

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I can see the ending the war bit but not the freeing of mankind... agree to differ ;-)

. I'm honestly looking forward to whatever you edit next, as like I said the editing and presentation was near flawless. Seriously super slick work.

I have to say I loved the sequels of the Matrix.

I think I read somewhere that you listed Morpheus taking the interstate as being suicide and doing it anyways....
You listed that as like a flaw or weakness or lack of judgement or something... You listed other reasons why you
disliked the sequels also but I can't remember them at this moment.

About deciding to take the interstate....

Look at the situation it in it's context.... like a sinking boat... If you don't jump into the small shaky raft that can't survive one single swell of the ocean... if you don't get into that little raft....


you - will - drown


If the nearest exit is on the interstate and you've got the key-maker in your backseat and like 2 agents and the Merovingian's ghost dudes on your ass every moment of the ride.........

Take the highway and hope for the best, because all the rest will surely result in death. Especially with Neo having ended up so far away when he went through the door/jump/teleporter thing and ended up in the mountains of BFE... without Neo, Morpheus was FORCED to make the difficult choice - It's leadership.

So this is why I haven't watched this edit. And if anyone wants to retort - please use the quote feature - it gives me an email notice.

If you wanted to play devil's advocate you could say that the decision to take the freeway was "questionable" at best. But you've missed the point that the reason they took the freeway was because the filmmakers wanted an exhilerating car chase (Regardless of it making any sense). Inversely, the chase actually turned out to be long, boring, lazily mounted and plagued by bad CGI but the intent was still there.

 

[NewSpock]

Okay cool .

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I can see the ending the war bit but not the freeing of mankind... agree to differ ;-)

.

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That I have to explain the ending makes it already not a 100% perfect. But still I have to say this: It's imho not needed to actually see him free humanity. It's imho completely enough that he states what he wants to do now, and then he flies away leaving the rest to the imagination, cause with him being in control of the code, he can do whatever he wants.
That's why I inserted Morpheus saying "That's what I imagined for so long" before that last telephone-call.

As to the minutes, yes, I deleted about 2-3 minutes from Matrix 1.

 

[wayne.workman2012]

If you wanted to play devil's advocate you could say that the decision to take the freeway was "questionable" at best. But you've missed the point that the reason they took the freeway was because the filmmakers wanted an exhilerating car chase (Regardless of it making any sense). Inversely, the chase actually turned out to be long, boring, lazily mounted and plagued by bad CGI but the intent was still there.

I like the entire scene - but then again I'm an action fan. The CGI throughout the movie was some real cheese and I hated that about it. The worst part of the entire movie in my opinion is that absolutely terrible bowling-pin sound effect when Neo throws a Smith clone at the other Smith clones really hard. They really could do better on the CGI - but I still feel like it was totally worth the watch and I've re watched it many times.

They did better with revolutions than reloaded.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

I received only 8/10

lol, what? you think 8 is low????

 

[wayne.workman2012]

lol, what? you think 8 is low????

8 degrees Fahrenheit is pretty low. It's supposed to be -2 here Monday with a high of 11...... I wanna move south.

 

[RollWave]

Sooooooo, why isn't this being billed as an edit of Matrix 1? It seems like that would clear up the confusion. Frink used more from the movie Airplane in his ridiculous edit than you use of Revolutions in your edit, but he didn't call it a PhantomMenace/Airplace mix. When you describe an edit as a combination of 1-3, there is an expectation of quite a bit from all parts. When you use 95% of 1 and 2.5% of 2-3, that sounds like an edit of the first movie to me. I think that simple change in your description would be far more descriptive.

And in your current description you pretty much already say this, just more confusingly. "this is a mixture of 3 movies, but i cut pretty much everything from 2 of them". it would be much more clear to me to say its an edit of 1 movie that incorporates bits from the other 2.

stated differently, audience members can easily relate to "added 15 minutes and cut 3 from the matrix". "cut 255 minutes from the sequels" is almost meaningless and leaves no real impression of how much actually remains.

is the following statement accurate? "this is an edit of The Matrix that incorporates scenes from the sequels in order to provide more 'real world' (Zion) implications of Neo's actions in the Matrix in an attempt to resolve both the matrix and the zion storylines simultaneously."

 

[NewSpock]

is the following statement accurate? "this is an edit of The Matrix that incorporates scenes from the sequels in order to provide more 'real world' (Zion) implications of Neo's actions in the Matrix in an attempt to resolve both the matrix and the zion storylines simultaneously."

What I did was to take Matrix 1-3 and use it to tell one reimagined story-arc that is complete in itself, but for the story told most of Matrix 2 and 3 content was not needed or even damaging, so I discarded them.

If there is one thing I would have liked to add to the movie from the sequels beyond what I included, then it would be this:

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Neo actually seeing Zion and its inhabitants and receiving those presents from the prophecy-believers, before Morpheus gives his cave-speech. In my edit they visit Zion in the middle of the movie, but Neo is not actually been shown walking in Zion, it's just assumed and left to the imagination.
I would have shown it, but, lol, in that scene Neo has grown hair on his head and I don't have the special effect skills to make him bald again.

And this is for TM2YC regarding the ending:

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The story I used prepares for that sort of ending: From the beginning Mr. Andersen is described as a hacker, and in the middle when Morpheus got captured by Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith wants the codes of zion, so that he can enter the mainframes of Zion and force all defenses down. So what at the end happened was what Mr. Smith wanted to do but couldn't, instead Neo was able to see through the code and enter the machines' mainframes thereby defeating them.

So again, just to be sure, this is not just a Matrix 1 extended edit, it's a reimagined story that makes most of Matrix 2 and Matrix 3 superfluous and completes the story.

The thing is only in order to really enjoy it, you need to view it afresh, ideally forgetting that the sequels exist... you need to "free your mind".

P.S.: But maybe I should just go the easy route and bill it as a Matrix 1 edit, just so I wouldn't have to explain so much.

 

[NewSpock]

Thanks reaper18783x for watching my edit and reviewing it, although I think you've not really understood what I have done with the story.

It's not just some extension at the end, it's a complete reimagination of the story that starts from the beginning, and continues throughout the movie and culminates at the end.

The thing is only that I was able to do this with merely 15 minutes used from the sequels.

But after TM2YC's first impression, I expected that others might not get it yet, so I was prepared.

 

[reaper18783x]

yeah i did not explain the edit fully right, that is my bad.
i never meant to say it was bad or anything it is a really good edit and done very good,
i think i just thought it would be more re imagined, but it is a good edit and other people should give it a go.
you did awesome work

 

[NewSpock]

yeah i did not explain the edit fully right, that is my bad.
i never meant to say it was bad or anything it is a really good edit and done very good,
i think i just thought it would be more re imagined, but it is a good edit and other people should give it a go.
you did awesome work

No problem reaper18783x,

thanks for your nice reply. My goal for the "reimagination" was to build upon my beloved "Matrix 1" and to change the story in such a way as to allow for a resolution so that the sequels I dislike are not needed. For that goal I needed 15 minutes from the sequels:

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With the help of these 15 minutes I could change the story in such a way:
1. The war between the machines already starts at the very beginning of the movie, before the matrix is shown: But at that time, it's still not clear that the enemy of the humans are machines. We only get to know that the enemy is gathering an army to destroy Zion, as not to disturb the surprise later on.

2. The next change I made is to angle the story as a conflict of ideologies between Locke and Morpheus: Morpheus believes in a prophecy of an oracle, and thinks the way to defeat the enemy is through the matrix. While Locke believes the war can only be won in the real world through ships and soldiers...

3. The other conflict I used to my advantage was the one between Mr. Smith and Mr. Andersen. Mr. Smith seeks the destruction of Zion, his plan is to infiltrate the mainframes of Zion and force all defenses down. Neo on the other hand is on the path of becoming the one, who will fulfill a prophecy, be able to see through the code and defeat the machines and free humanity. So they have similar but contrary goals. Now the question becomes who will be able to get through at the end between them.

4. The ending is changed in that it has a new meaning: While Mr. Smith fails to obtain the codes of Zion (through interrogating, torturing Morpheus) and therefore can't infiltrate and has to rely on the warmachinery of the machines, Neo, who is killed by Mr. Smith wakes up from the dead, becomes the prophesised one, sees through the code and defeats the machines through the code, symbolically underlined by him jumping into Mr. Smith.

So, while the footage is on the surface mostly the same because for 90% it consists of Matrix 1, the added 15 minutes change the meaning of everything, and imho achieves to complete the story of matrix so that the sequels are not needed.

Of course I know that not everyone dislikes the sequels as much as I do, but there are other very good matrix edits that give them more room.

 

[ssj]

haven't seen the edit; i'm sure it's fabulous. but an observation on the fanedit's intent. . . .

less clarification earlier has led to a large amount of clarification later.

this experience will hopefully demonstrate that tightening up the language of your synopsis/intention will better manage expectations.

Brief Synopsis:
This is a reimagination of Matrix 1-3, hence the name Matrix Reimagined, a newly structured story, for which I use Matrix 1-3, but in a very liberated way and only using those parts I thought important and necessary to tell a complete story-arc that stands on it own and that makes any sequels unnecessary. Therefore I discarded a whole 255 minutes from the sequels, cause I think them to be unimportant or even damaging to the story I want to tell.

If you don't like the idea of discarding most of the sequel's content, there are other excellent Matrix edits that will meet your expectations.
But if you love Matrix 1 and dislike the sequels like me, but wishes for a resolution of the story without most of the sequel's content, and therefore circumventing all the problems of the sequels, then this is what you've waited for.

Intention:
I simply love Matrix 1. It's a great cyberpunk-thriller that revolutionised the action/sciencefictiongenre. I went three times into the movie in the first weeks when it was still in cinemas and I couldn't await the sequel.
Back then I couldn't imagine that the sequels would be anything but awesome... but they weren't.
Not only that, I felt betrayed.

Matrix 1 was imho just perfect as it was, so I just kept rewatching that one, and only seldomly watching the sequels.

Still, Matrix 1 is not complete, the fate of Zion was still open.

For years I imagined and tinkered with ideas of how I would tell the story so that it gets a satisfactory resolution, one that is in synch with the promising Matrix 1.

This is the result: "Matrix Reimagined".

this is simply too long a summary.

relating how frequently you saw the first movie, how infrequently you watch the others, and the sense of betrayal, even the opinion that this movie revolutionized action and scifi and whatnot—these are putting a drag on efficiently saying what your fanedit is all about.

sure, you can discuss those motivations elsewhere in your thread, but you don't want to lose your reader in what should be an elevator pitch.

my two abe coins.

 

[Solid11]

I'm downloading now, looking forward to watching it!

My expectations: this is an attempt at making a full, cohesive Matrix story without the need for sequels. I'm not expecting much content from 2-3 - but that's good, because not much is there that's worth bringing in... Unless you like circular reasoning: but let's be honest, if you like it, you will like it.

 

[NewSpock]

haven't seen the edit; i'm sure it's fabulous. but an observation on the fanedit's intent. . . .

less clarification earlier has led to a large amount of clarification later.

this experience will hopefully demonstrate that tightening up the language of your synopsis/intention will better manage expectations.



this is simply too long a summary.

relating how frequently you saw the first movie, how infrequently you watch the others, and the sense of betrayal, even the opinion that this movie revolutionized action and scifi and whatnot—these are putting a drag on efficiently saying what your fanedit is all about.

sure, you can discuss those motivations elsewhere in your thread, but you don't want to lose your reader in what should be an elevator pitch.

my two abe coins.

You are right, but I decided to undersell the edit now after previously I oversold it.

And now after a few nights sleeping over it, I can see why reaper18783xand TMYC were disappointed. Alone the title "Matrix Reimagined" suggests that I used Matrix 1-3 and made a wildly new story out of it, with equally as much portions out of every part of Matrix. And mixing them in such a way that every few minutes footage is newly arranged so as to constantly surprise the viewer.

That's not the case.

Next time I'll know:
Making a fanedit I have to always think from the outside and ask myself what people will expect when reading the title or the summary and learn how to manage expectations before people get to watch it.

@ Solid11:

Just don't expect a revolutionary new experience and you will be able to enjoy it.

 

[NewSpock]

Thanks TheFoo for watching and reviewing my edit.

 

[NewSpock]

I know the edit is finished, but I rewatched it and there is one element that is a bit undertoned:

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It misses a bit the element where the machines are actually killing the zionists. In the original edit I show it a little when the APU's are shooting those machines, but I didn't show how the infantry fared and their sacrifices against these flying things. So the result is that the war feels a bit too clinical, and when the machines finally enter into zion, they don't feel as lethal and dangerous as they should.
So I interweaved a new scene of 20 seconds where these machines are actually seen as fighting against the infantry and killing them. That adds that lethal layer on the feeling towards them and yet it doesn't disturb the pacing or flow. And at the end when the war is over it then feels more satisfactory and believable for the zionists to rejoice the way they do because of these sacrifices by the infantry.

It's only 20 seconds added, but like with the 15 minutes for the whole movie, they change the context of the surrounding scenes and add a layer of tension to the last part of the movie.

With these 20 added seconds, my edit is finished and it expresses everything I intended to.

It's too bad that I didn't use these 20 seconds in the first place, but that's life.

 

[NewSpock]

Here's a clip showing the 20 seconds I added, that should

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improve the feeling of war going on, making the machines feel more lethal, increasing the feeling of sacrifice by the zionists and therefore making the end of war more satisfactory, within its context:

Password: Summers

Spoiler because the clip is only relevant for those who have already watched the edit. It's only 20 seconds, but like the 15 minutes for the whole movie, even that little influences the following scenes and their impact.

 

[Solid11]

Aww man, I guess I should re-download it now Same links?