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I'd finally decided that Matrix 2&3 are fanfix-proof after watching a couple of edits recently, so this seems like a great idea to at least do something with the material, so we get a resolution. Plus one of the key unfixable things about 2&3 is the CGI so since you're not using it... problem solved! (You must know Kung-Fu)
I'd finally decided that Matrix 2&3 are fanfix-proof after watching a couple of edits recently, so this seems like a great idea to at least do something with the material, so we get a resolution. Plus one of the key unfixable things about 2&3 is the CGI so since you're not using it... problem solved! (You must know Kung-Fu)
I see it similar, it's not only the CGI I dislike in the sequels, it's most of the ideas.
I tried to explain what I mean in the trailer:
Seeing Neo losing his ability to see through and manipulate the code, and reduced to only hit harder and fly around was a huge disappointment. Seeing superflous fights, multiple smiths, a long sequence with the merowinger (for what?), multiple new characters that we should care about, but which didn't hold my interest.
That's why I radically edited Matrix 1-3 into this edit, discarding a whole 255 minutes.:laser:
Matrix 1 was imho nearly perfect, the only problem is it left things open for these imho awful sequels.
I've submitted my edit to fanedit.org yesterday, so hopefully soon it will premiere.
If you want to watch it before it's officially listed on the news-section just write me a pm and I'll give you the links.
Really interesting idea you got there, and that's coming from a Matrix Reloaded fan.
However, is the conversation scene between Morpheus and Locke still used as the opening scene of your edit? Because honestly, it's kinda breaks the flow of the original introduction; the exciting music leads to a visually boring and uneventful dialogue. Plus, none of the information provided by the scene seems critical to understanding the plot.
I have to say it's a very unfair review and scoring, though. I made my intentions very clear from the start in this thread and in the movie-listing, that I don't like the sequels and therefore radically cut them down and use only those bits that are needed to complete the story for Matrix 1, so that it wouldn't need any sequels.
And I' think you didn't understand the story-arc I used for it. The story is indeed completely told:
With Neo overcoming death and becoming the one who became able to form the matrix, he completely defeated the machines.
That's the irony: The very thing with which the machines enslave humanity is the very thing they are defeated with through the fulfilled prophecy. Neo having becomed the one forced through the matrix the machines to leave Zion in peace.
And the last scene with the telephone call, with the computerscreen showing "System freeze" and Neo telling the machines that he will free all humans from the matrix is the ultimate message that the war is over and that the humans won.
The problem is that you still have the sequels in mind and wait for something from it. But that's not my concern, my concern is to tell a complete story with a story arc that works on its own so that the sequels aren't needed at all.
There are other edits out there, very good ones, that edit the sequels into something more enjoyable.
Regarding the minutes used from the sequels, I used about 15 minutes, as I cut about 3 minutes from Matrix 1 to make it all work together.
Still, unfair or not, misunderstood or not, a review is better than no review, so thank you for taking the time to watch and review my edit, TM2YC!
P.S.: TM2YC, could you please edit your review to put spoiler-warnings into it? Cause you talk in it about some details of the story that people who haven't seen the movie-edit shouldn't read unwarned. Thanks.
I thought he gave a very fair review and explained himself fully. I read it and thought to myself "Ok cool, don't expect this to be a 3-in-1 Matrix edit. It may not be the greatest fanedit ever made but it's not a stinker. Next time I feel like rewatching Matrix 1 I should pop this edit in and see how I like it."
I thought he gave a very fair review and explained himself fully. I read it and thought to myself "Ok cool, don't expect this to be a 3-in-1 Matrix edit. It may not be the greatest fanedit ever made but it's not a stinker. Next time I feel like rewatching Matrix 1 I should pop this edit in and see how I like it."
Yes, he has explained himself and I respect TM2YC, he is a reknown and beloved faneditor (and actually I feel honoured that TM2YC watched my edit), but it's nonetheless unfair to underscore my edit for wrong expectations and misunderstandings even though I made my goals and intentions clear from the start, and the impression you got from it only further underlines the unfairness of it.
But it's ok, unfair reviews and misunderstood impressions belong to editing just like it belongs to filmmaking, I'll just have to respect it and take it on the chin.;-)
Yes, he has explained himself and I respect TMYC, he is a reknown and beloved faneditor, but it's nonetheless unfair to underscore my edit for wrong expectations and misunderstandings even though I made my goals and intentions clear from the start, and the impression you got from it only further underlines the unfairness of it.
A little confused by this. I can experience the Matrix without the sequels just fine. I just watch #1 and never watch the others.
The title "Matrix Reimagined" suggests this could be like a remix, changing the narrative and creating a new and improved story.
No multiple smiths, no Merowinger, no special powers outside of the matrix, no superfluous characters introduced, no Architect, no unconvincing CGI, no dancing zion-citizens... just one gripping story with no need for sequels.
So this comes across as a sort of 3-in-1 edit, telling a complete story.
I simply love Matrix 1. It's a great cyberpunk-thriller that revolutionised the action/sciencefictiongenre. I went three times into the movie in the first weeks when it was still in cinemas and I couldn't await the sequel.
Back then I couldn't imagine that the sequels would be anything but awesome... but they weren't.
Not only that, I felt betrayed.
Matrix 1 was imho just perfect as it was, so I just kept rewatching that one, and only seldomly watching the sequels.
Still, Matrix 1 is not complete, the fate of Zion was still open.
For years I imagined and tinkered with ideas of how I would tell the story so that it gets a satisfactory resolution, one that is in synch with the promising Matrix 1.
Ok cool, you loved the first movie and felt betrayed by the sequels, gotcha. And it's hard to only watch #1 because the fate of Zion is unresolved. So you re-edited it to have a satisfactory resolution.
This tells me this is a complete story with a satsifactory ending.
Sounds like TM2YC had reasonable expectations. Then he watched it and felt it wasn't the radical change he thought it would be and was let down by it. He simply didn't enjoy as much as you wanted him to.
As far as the narrative score, he says
SPOILERS
All we see is one attack on Zion, we still have no idea how the war concludes, what happens to the humans, what happens to the Matrix, what happens to the machines, what happens between Neo and Trinity etc etc etc. This edit still ends with Neo issuing the machines a threat via voicemail about what he may or may not do next.
He was let down by the end and felt the narrative wasn't as strong as it could have been. A 7/10 isn't that terrible a score.
Now I'm not going to judge it without seeing the entire edit, but it sounds like I may not be as satisfied with the ending as you are.
So I read his review and I say to myself "Don't expect this to blow your balls off. Your mileage may vary." Will I watch it? Maybe, like I said, the next time I feel like watching Matrix 1 I'll pop this in instead.
Don't forget that there's two major categories to fanedit scores. Tech and Story. He said your tech was perfect. You just gotta work a little more on your story telling. There's always room for improvement in art.
it's nonetheless unfair to underscore my edit for wrong expectations and misunderstandings even though I made my goals and intentions clear from the start
Here's the thing, though...you can't manage expectations or understandings. In some ways it's no different than being the writer, director, or producer of a big Hollywood movie. You can try to lead the audience as much as you want, but it doesn't mean they'll interpret things the way you want them to. You can craft a deep, thought-provoking story that people ignore because the marketing department made the movie look like an action-comedy in the trailers.
If people don't get what you are going for, you can't say it's unfair for them to admit it.
Also, I've been really harsh in some reviews, especially towards Frink and njvc. Seriously, I'm harsh in that njvc review. And I was even meaner behind closed doors. But they were honest bashings and we all still respect each other (maybe).
And you know, with my first fanedit I was annoyed I got a 7/10 from geminigod. But I looked at it and thought to myself, "Well I didn't actually do too much work, there were only a few scenes cut. So I figure he just didn't want to give high marks to something so simple." That made me accept it and not care about the numbers.
Here's the thing, though...you can't manage expectations or understandings. In some ways it's no different than being the writer, director, or producer of a big Hollywood movie. You can try to lead the audience as much as you want, but it doesn't mean they'll interpret things the way you want them to. You can craft a deep, thought-provoking story that people ignore because the marketing department made the movie look like an action-comedy in the trailers.
If people don't get what you are going for, you can't say it's unfair for them to admit it.
Agreed, I guess I somehow invoked a wrong expectation in TM2YC so that he thought that I would somehow condense all or most of the storyelements of Matrix 1-3 into 148 minutes.
Seen in that way, it's indeed not unfair to express the feeling of not fulfilled expectations. I apologise for this misunderstanding.
Alright, I'll make it clear from here on out:
If you expect to see most of Matrix 2-3's storyelements in this edit, don't expect it. This is a reimagination of Matrix 1-3, hence the name Matrix Reimagined, a newly structured story, for which I use Matrix 1-3, but in a very liberated way and only using those parts I thought important and necessary to tell a complete story-arc that stands on it own and that makes any sequels unnecessary. Therefore I discarded a whole 255 minutes from the sequels, cause I think them to be unimportant or even damaging to the story I want to tell.
If you don't like the idea of discarding most of the sequel's content, there are other excellent Matrix edits that are more to your expectations.
I think I'll update the IFDB listing with it as well.
Thank you all and TM2YC especially for making me aware of this potential problem of perception.
Yup, I thought the same as TM2YC as well. Be thankful he didn't just write - "sucked. not what I was expecting." He takes time to explain what it actually is, which makes me think "hmm, interesting, worth a look".
LOL. Sorry Frink. That was an expectations mismatch of note!
And a harsh review. I stand by it - it was honest. But harsh it was. Yes indeedy. I'm rather embarresed I scored it so low (it *was* how I was feeling, but, ouch). But you could comfort yourself with the surfeit of 10's you had!
So, NewSpock, a 7 is not too bad!
I remember slaving away for a year and half on Matrix 2.0 and one of my first reviews was.... a SIX. Brutal. But right. I went back to the drawing board and fixed a number of glaring problems for the re-release. Hey, it's a better movie.
Frink was inspired by my "2" to do Episode 2. It was a sign. ;-)
I don't mind a low score, if it's justified. For "Buffy the Prophecy" I received only 8/10, even though I put a lot of work and love into it, but it was my first edit and I can see where the two points are missing, and so I never complained about that. For a first edit an 8/10 is not too shabby anyway.;-)
But getting a low score mostly because of a mismatch of expectations, that is different. So in order to hopefully prevent mismatched expectations in the future I updated the ifdb listing to make intentions and goals as clear as possible.
I write a review, then go watch a couple of documentaries about European Art and American Rock and come back to 2 pages of discussion :shock:
I actually watched your edit as soon as I got it 4 days ago but knowing it was the first review and would be partly critical I thought "I'll wait and write it tomorrow when some other, hopefully fully positive reviews have come in to offset it". But since nobody had and I was in danger of forgetting my impressions I posted it (Maybe I should have waited longer ). Sorry if it came across as overly harsh, I didn't mean it to. As I said...
"I'd highly recommend this edit and it will probably be forever replacing the Theatrical Cut of M1 for me"
But I couldn't give it a perfect score (That it probably deserves) because it didn't live up the billing by a long chalk. I've been caught out in the past by "Mis-selling" certain aspects of my own edits. You live you learn. If the community thinks this scoring is unfair I'll gladly change it all to 10/10s.
In my defence...
You'll note that I said "12 minutes" of footage was used in my review. I said that because I looked up all the running times of the trilogy, fed them into my calculator and worked it out. If you say it was "15 minutes" then perhaps you cut 3 minutes of Matrix1? The point is that I had to work it out for myself after viewing the edit. Before watching the edit I had no idea how much the 3 films had been mixed. You could of used 15 minutes of Matrix1 and used 133 minutes of M1&M2 for all I knew? If you'd included just this small bit of info, my expectations would have been fully managed.
And if you tied up the whole Matrix story, I'm sorry I must have missed it. Unless I'm mistaken, all the Squiddy machines were still alive (They just retreated), all the agents (Except smith) were still alive, all the humans were still enslaved in the powerplant, the Matrix was still fully functional and the machines still ruled the planet. As I said in my review, your ending was better than the original but it wasn't the ending promised IMO.
If you want to add a response to my review, IFDB allows you too. I've added some responses to reviews of my own edits but I don't think anybody goes back to read them though .
(Added spoiler warning to review as requested )
Finally can I make it clear...
GO WATCH THIS EDIT. IT'S FANTASTIC! (and is better and more complex than the original cut of Matrix1).
