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Last of the Mohicans - Original Theatrical Version

ThrowgnCpr

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This is essentially a custom DVD, as its a PAL DVD to NTSC DVD conversion.

The only version of the film available on DVD in the US is Michael Mann's 1999 re-edited director's cut, released by Fox. However the film is distributed overseas by Warner Bros and they have released the original theatrical cut on DVD in both England and France in the PAL format.

This conversion has used this PAL version and expertly re-encoded it over to the NTSC format, which clocks in at the correct 112min. No more speeded up video or audio to enjoy this classic film!

DVD-9 Version contains 16x9 (720x480) Anamorphic Video and True DD5.1 Sound with bonus Music-Only track (True DD5.1) and 16x9 International Trailer

LotMtvThrowgnCpr3D.jpg


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*** RELEASE TECHNICAL DETAILS ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS - INTERNATIONAL VERSION
"The Original Theatrical Version"

DISC SPECS:
Type.....................: DVD-9 Movie
Platform.................: VIDEO_TS & DVD_ROM Folders
Burn Tested............: Yes
Video Format..........: DVD/VOB/MPEG2/720x480/16x9/NTSC
Audio Format..........: Dolby Digital 5.1 (448 Kbps)
Audio Language.......: English
Subtitles................: English (optional)
Main Movie Runtime..: 112min
Size.......................: 6.39 GB
DVD-Rom................: DVD Covers and Soundtrack


Special Features:
- Music Only Track
- International Trailer



 

Frantic Canadian

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Is this basically the same release as the one available in England and France or are there any changes to it? Because if all that's been done to it is that it's been re-encoded to NTSC I don't see how this could qualify as a custom DVD.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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I cant comment specifically, but to my knowledge, the contents are probably the same. This is just basically a PAL to NTSC conversion, though the speedup issues have been corrected. It now plays at the proper speed resulting in the correct duration. How is that not a custom DVD?
 

Frantic Canadian

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This is just my opinion but I think a DVD should have at least one of the following to be considered a custom DVD.

- new menus (especially for foreign releases that don't have english menus)
- custom subs
- additional or better audio tracks
- new, different or more special features

If all that's been done is a conversion from PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL that just seems like straight out piracy to me. It doesn't really make sense to convert it anyways because I think every DVD player can play both NTSC and PAL, at least those made within the last couple of years. New players can be had for real cheap too and most of them have codes to make them region free. But like I said that's just my opinion.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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I agree with you to a point, as my DVD player and TV setup can play any disc, but I think the speed correction definitely accounts for something. This does not play the same as the PAL disc would play. Even though I can play PAL discs I would gladly want this "custom" NTSC disc along side a Region 2 PAL disc on my shelf. I would prefer to watch the movie as close (in this case exactly) to the theatrical release as possible.

To my knowledge the menus are different on this (but I dont see how simply creating new menus from an English speaking source matters).

Call it custom, or don't call it custom, its a moot point anyway, because links are not allowed here for them, and the project will not make it to the website anyway. I just disagree with you labeling this one "straight out piracy" when its not much different than the majority of the things discussed in this forum.

my 2 cents
 

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this falls under RARE/OOP PAL2NTSC projects, which could be either preservations or custom (you pick!)

regardless, this is a great NTSC project.
 

Frantic Canadian

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I've never noticed any difference when playing PAL discs on my tv. I'm familiar with the different frame rates and the PAL speed-up issue but I can't honestly say that I've ever noticed any difference when playing a PAL disc or an NTSC disc. There probably is but it's probably too minor for the average person to notice, kind of like the difference between .mp3 and .flac.

I agree that simply creating new menus shouldn't qualify something as a custom DVD, especially if the new menus are in the same language as the previous ones, but it's one of the things that you most often see in custom DVD's which is why I mentioned it.

Custom DVD's are great because they usually combine the best of every release. One release might have better picture but another one might have better sound, another one could have better extras and yet another one could have more accurate subtitles. Combine them all together and you have the ultimate release, given what is available anyways, but simply converting the video from PAL to NTSC or vice-versa doesn't seem enough to qualify something as a custom DVD.

The reason why I called this "straight out piracy" is because what's being done here is simply taking a PAL video and converting it to NTSC. No new audio tracks, subtitles or extras have been included. For all intents and purposes this is the exact same thing as the official release. Personally I'd rather just own the original but we all know how easily full DVD's can be had online for free and how rampant piracy is these days so where's the incentive to own the original when this one can be had for free?

Once again this is just my opinion.
 

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there are 2 ways to convert PAL to NTSC

1. 25 frames to 24 (23.976) by dividing each second into 23.976 fps and stretching audio ~104%
2. 25 frames to 29.976 by reproducing 1 frame per 5 frames and keeping audio as is.

#2 is what DVD players are doing on the fly (i.e. OPPO, etc.)

personally i usually can't stand PAL speedup and it seems silly. i'm guessing others do as well.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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Frantic Canadian said:
There probably is but it's probably too minor for the average person to notice, kind of like the difference between .mp3 and .flac.
ha! well, i agree that if its the first time you are watching a movie, then you may not notice the speedup, however, if its a movie you've seen dozens of times (in this case tLotM, I have) then it does stick out and sounds unpleasant. I won't go as far as some people and say that the speedup makes people sound like they are on helium, but it is definitely noticeable if you are familiar with the film. And I would think that a lot of people would actually be able to tell the difference between flac and mp3 if they were played samples of both side by side....

joebshmoe said:
here are 2 ways to convert PAL to NTSC

1. 25 frames to 24 (23.976) by dividing each second into 23.976 fps and stretching audio ~104%
2. 25 frames to 29.976 by reproducing 1 frame per 5 frames and keeping audio as is.

#2 is what DVD players are doing on the fly (i.e. OPPO, etc.)

personally i usually can't stand PAL speedup and it seems silly. i'm guessing others do as well.
yep, so though my OPPO can play the PAL disc, its still not the correct speed. The audio stretch method is the correct way to do it (as is done here on this "custom"). Note that stretching the audio from PAL to NTSC only is correct when the original source material was shot in NTSC. Method #2 would be the correct way if the source material was shot in PAL (like a BBC disc or something).

Frantic Canadian said:
The reason why I called this "straight out piracy" is because what's being done here is simply taking a PAL video and converting it to NTSC. No new audio tracks, subtitles or extras have been included. For all intents and purposes this is the exact same thing as the official release.
I still think you are splitting hairs here. We discussed incentive, but lets take a look at a lot of these "customs"

ex #1: Star Wars - GOUT; color corrected, and made anamorphic with a better audio mix. By our definitions here, this is clearly a custom DVD. yet there is absolutely no incentive for someone to own the (subpar) original. Its exactly the same movie, yet everything about it is better.

ex #2: Grindhouse theatrical cut; (currently only Japanese editions available) reauthored to have fully animated English menus. Again where is the incentive to own the original?

We can go as far as to say the same thing for a lot of fanedits. Not necessarily the ones that take a different perspective on a film (ex: Jaws sharksploitation), but the many fanedits that are simply turd polishing (ex: T3 - The Coming Storm). So where is the incentive to own the original for these turdish movies, when we can have a clearly better (and near professionally done) version?

So where is the incentive? not much, but I think we are all movie nerds here, and yes we like to own the original (sometimes many versions) of a film. Its all personal resoponsibility. Do the studios care? They probably consider all this shit piracy. And we have always walked a fine line between what we think is fair or not. Again, I think this discussion is rather moot, because this is simply a discussion of the project, the forum and website offers NO links to customs at all, whether or not they fit some arbitrary definition.

Again, this is all my opinion. In the end its all up to AvP as to what he wants to present on the website, and what he will allow and promote in the forum.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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AvP said:
so they is an offical PAL version?

more or less, but not exactly. Let me break it down for everyone.

This DVD:
- theatrical cut - 112 minutes - correct speed. NTSC
- english 5.1, Isolated score,
- theatrical trailer

R1 DVDs:
- directors cut - 117 minutes - correct speed. NTSC
- english 5.1, French 2.0,
- no bonus features

R2 DVD (UK):
- theatrical cut - 107 minutes - PAL speed up (incorrect speed)
- English 5.1, Italian 5.1, Isolated score
- theatrical trailer

R2 DVD (France):
- theatrical cut - 107 minutes - PAL speed up (incorrect speed)
- English 5.1, French 5.1, Isolated score
- theatrical trailer

R4 DVD:
- theatrical cut - 107 minutes - PAL speed up (incorrect speed)
- English 5.1, Italian 5.1, Isolated score
- theatrical trailer

So this DVD is slightly unique. It contains the theatrical cut at the correct speed. It only has english audio, and the Isolated score - no other languages. Whether or not you want to call it custom (and or remove/delete this thread) or not is up to you. I felt it was unique. regardless I am not posting links here.
 
A

AvP

i see as a CUSTOM and theres no links so i cant see they being a problem hosting the info here.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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AvP said:
i see as a CUSTOM and theres no links so i cant see they being a problem hosting the info here.

This was my thinking exactly. There is no discussion of any kind of distribution. I dont see the harm in talking about the specs of a disc that exists.

Discussions on rhetoric and vocabulary are not going to change the fact that this DVD exists and we will not post any kind of links here to possibly obtaining it.
 

Frantic Canadian

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ThrowgnCpr said:
ha! well, i agree that if its the first time you are watching a movie, then you may not notice the speedup, however, if its a movie you've seen dozens of times (in this case tLotM, I have) then it does stick out and sounds unpleasant. I won't go as far as some people and say that the speedup makes people sound like they are on helium, but it is definitely noticeable if you are familiar with the film. And I would think that a lot of people would actually be able to tell the difference between flac and mp3 if they were played samples of both side by side....

I guess your hearing must be more attuned to it than mine because I've never noticed any difference. I've seen the movie Bugsy Malone plenty of times as a kid and I bought the R2 UK Sing-A-Long Edition last year and I can't say that I've noticed any difference. I've also got several Metallica bootlegs that are in PAL and I've heard those songs hundreds of times but I don't recall noticing any speed-up issues.

ThrowgnCpr said:
I still think you are splitting hairs here. We discussed incentive, but lets take a look at a lot of these "customs"

ex #1: Star Wars - GOUT; color corrected, and made anamorphic with a better audio mix. By our definitions here, this is clearly a custom DVD. yet there is absolutely no incentive for someone to own the (subpar) original. Its exactly the same movie, yet everything about it is better.

ex #2: Grindhouse theatrical cut; (currently only Japanese editions available) reauthored to have fully animated English menus. Again where is the incentive to own the original?

I don't see any incentive to own the originals in these cases but with Star Wars, and what does GOUT stand for?, an improvement is clearly being made by having a better sound mix and having the video be anamorphic so this one would clearly fall under the "Custom" banner. With Grindhouse on the other hand I don't think an english menu is enough to qualify this as a custom DVD. What the Japanese release has going against it though is that you can only get Grindhouse in a 6-disc box set, and four of those discs are exactly the same as the R1 releases of Death Proof and Planet Terror.

I guess there's really no incentive to own any original if a custom DVD is available but in a case like this, with LOTM where all that's been done is correcting the speed, I don't see any difference in this custom edition and just going out and renting/borrowing the movie and burning yourself a copy because you are essentially getting the exact same thing that is available on the official release.

ThrowgnCpr said:
So where is the incentive? not much, but I think we are all movie nerds here, and yes we like to own the original (sometimes many versions) of a film. Its all personal resoponsibility. Do the studios care? They probably consider all this shit piracy. And we have always walked a fine line between what we think is fair or not. Again, I think this discussion is rather moot, because this is simply a discussion of the project, the forum and website offers NO ]

I completely agree. I've double and even triple dipped before. I own both the Alien Legacy and the Alien Quadrilogy box sets on DVD, I've bought The X-Files: Fight The Future and The Rock on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray and I even shelled out 40$ for the Japanese R2 DVD of Kill Bill Vol.1 and 30$ for the Hong Kong R3 DVD of Kill Bill Vol.2 when I already owned the Canadian R1 discs. I've double dipped on other DVD's as well but these are the more extreme cases. I don't think the problem lies with us but with the average person who would rather spend the time downloading a DVD because it's free than to shell out the cash to own the original.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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Frantic Canadian said:
I've also got several Metallica bootlegs that are in PAL and I've heard those songs hundreds of times but I don't recall noticing any speed-up issues.
As I mentioned in my post above, if the footage was shot in native PAL format, there there is no speed up issue (i.e, it wasnt converted from NTSC). All those Metallica bootlegs that you have that are in PAL format were almost certainly shot in PAL (as they probably are of European shows). result: NO speedup.

Frantic Canadian said:
what does GOUT stand for?
George's Original Unaltered Trilogy. This refers to the official 2006 DVD release of the "original" Star Wars trilogy (pre-special-edition). This release was a slap in the face to fans. It was letterboxed fullframe. It had a lot (possible intentionally introduced) noise, and poor coloring. The conspiracy theory is that Lucas intentionally made a shitty official release to make the bootlegs and preservations of the OUT (original unaltered trilogy) completely illegal, yet not provide the fans with a good copy of the OUT (he wants to force people into agreeing the SE is the best).

Frantic Canadian said:
I guess there's really no incentive to own any original if a custom DVD is available but in a case like this, with LOTM where all that's been done is correcting the speed, I don't see any difference in this custom edition and just going out and renting/borrowing the movie and burning yourself a copy because you are essentially getting the exact same thing that is available on the official release.
I guess this is just where we are going to have to agree to disagree. I see (mostly hear) a difference, and for me the speed and native duration IS important (I know I am not alone on this). I feel that I cannot go out and buy or rent/copy this DVD as it is, so for me this is a "custom" DVD that I want to have and sit on the shelf with the other official releases of the film that I own.

but as I mentioned before, I really don't see a point in this vocabulary argument because we do not discuss distribution of this stuff...
 

Frantic Canadian

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ThrowgnCpr said:
As I mentioned in my post above, if the footage was shot in native PAL format, there there is no speed up issue (i.e, it wasnt converted from NTSC). All those Metallica bootlegs that you have that are in PAL format were almost certainly shot in PAL (as they probably are of European shows). result: NO speedup.

My bad. I thought the speed-up issue was caused by the player converting the PAL video to NTSC on-the-fly not because the source video was in a different format than it was shot in. Could explain why I never noticed any difference while watching my copy of Bugsy Malone. The movie was shot in the UK which means it was probably shot as PAL, right?

ThrowgnCpr said:
George's Original Unaltered Trilogy. This refers to the official 2006 DVD release of the "original" Star Wars trilogy (pre-special-edition). This release was a slap in the face to fans. It was letterboxed fullframe. It had a lot (possible intentionally introduced) noise, and poor coloring. The conspiracy theory is that Lucas intentionally made a shitty official release to make the bootlegs and preservations of the OUT (original unaltered trilogy) completely illegal, yet not provide the fans with a good copy of the OUT (he wants to force people into agreeing the SE is the best).

Yeah, I heard about that. I was happy when I heard that they were finally releasing the OUT on DVD but when I found out that they were including it as an extra along with the SE I refused to buy it. I thought that was a pretty big slap in the face to fans and then when I found out about the fullframe letterboxing and the other problems I thought that was a kick in the nuts to go along with the slap in the face. I don't want the SE I only want the OUT and until he gives the OUT a proper release I refuse to give Lucas any more money. Although I have to admit, and I don't know why I did this, I went out and I bought the 2-disc edition of the Clone Wars movie when it came out. I still haven't watched it though.
 

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Frantic Canadian said:
My bad. I thought the speed-up issue was caused by the player converting the PAL video to NTSC on-the-fly not because the source video was in a different format than it was shot in. Could explain why I never noticed any difference while watching my copy of Bugsy Malone. The movie was shot in the UK which means it was probably shot as PAL, right?
Correct, you will not notice any speed up issues on a movie that was shot and released by a UK company because there is no speed up. Issues occur when companies make PAL releases of an NTSC native films. For some reason the method of commercial conversion is to just speed up the film. To really understand the difference you need to watch something like star wars on a PAL disc.

Frantic Canadian said:
Although I have to admit, and I don't know why I did this, I went out and I bought the 2-disc edition of the Clone Wars movie when it came out. I still haven't watched it though.
hahahahahahaha, wait until you watch that giant turd!!! I saw it in the theatre, and was appalled. Its the Hanna Montana version of Star Wars... except worse! It makes the Ewok Adventure look like the Godfather ;D
 
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