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Justice League - The Spence Edit

Gieferg

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. I also think I'll release it in both 4x3 ratio and standard 16x9. I prefer 16x9 as it fits the idea of the project better (a theatrically viable film) but I know the IMAX format has it's supporters.

Why not 2.35:1 to match with previous Snyder movies in this series?

I also think I'd like to put Superman back in his Blue and Red costume at the end.
Frankly, that's a must.

As for the editing - I've watched ZSJL twice and didn't have any issues with the pacing except the epilogue (everything after shirt rip seems pointless), it was quite satisfying in that 4 hour form. That being said, faster cut seems like a good idea anyway.

Also, Martha-Manhunter must go.
 
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stferguson78

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The one theatrical cut scene that I think really adds to the Snyder cut is when we see Batman’s injuries/bruising on his back after clashing with Superman- it’s such a good reminder of how much more he risks than the others, he isn’t a god or a meta human, just a normal man trying to bring these super powered beings together. Just a thought
 

spence

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Why not 2.35:1 to match with previous Snyder movies in this series?


Frankly, that's a must.

As for the editing - I've watched ZSJL twice and didn't have any issues with the pacing except the epilogue (everything after shirt rip seems pointless), it was quite satisfying in that 4 hour form. That being said, faster cut seems like a good idea anyway.

Also, Martha-Manhunter must go.
Honestly, because it wasn't framed for 2:35:1. It was shot with 16:9 in mind, so we'd just lose too much of the footage. Close ups would be framed weird, visuals would be lost, etc. It works going from 4:3 to 16:9 because the 4:3 was a later decision. The intention was always 16:9 for most of the film, 4:3-ish for IMAX sequences.

As an example, the vast majority of the film works by just slapping the 16:9 bars on it. Only have to re-frame sequences that were effects heavy and had been expanded to use the 4:3. If it's just a scene of characters talking or a mostly practical shot, it was clearly framed for 16:9 to begin with.
 

spence

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The one theatrical cut scene that I think really adds to the Snyder cut is when we see Batman’s injuries/bruising on his back after clashing with Superman- it’s such a good reminder of how much more he risks than the others, he isn’t a god or a meta human, just a normal man trying to bring these super powered beings together. Just a thought
I too like that scene a lot, and I also like Wonder Woman being uncomfortable with resurrecting Kal-El. I just don't know if it fits tonally with the rest of the film. I'm definitely playing with the idea of including some of this stuff if I can make it work.
 

Gieferg

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Honestly, because it wasn't framed for 2:35:1. It was shot with 16:9 in mind, so we'd just lose too much of the footage. Close ups would be framed weird, visuals would be lost, etc.

That's the sacrifice I'm willing to make ;)
Avengers looked better in 2.35:1 and I bet this also will.

Only have to re-frame sequences that were effects heavy and had been expanded to use the 4:3. If it's just a scene of characters talking or a mostly practical shot, it was clearly framed for 16:9 to begin with.
That feels like an oversimplification ;)

Maybe most but in many places it does not work.
Many shots are framed the way, the most important thing in the frame is on very top or bottom, for example flaming arrow on the temple's floor.
 
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spence

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That's the sacrifice I'm willing to make ;)
Avengers looked better in 2.35:1 and I bet this also will.


That feels like an oversimplification ;)

Maybe most but in many places it does not work.
Many shots are framed the way, the most important thing in the frame is on very top or bottom, for example flaming arrow on the temple's floor.
"Better" is very subjective. Typically I prefer 2:35:1 composition as well, but I feel like Snyder was going for a big, splashy comic panel style here that gets a little lost in 2:35:1.

I also think Avengers looks better is 16:9 than 2:35:1, and I kinda wish they'd kept that aspect going forward for the team up movies. There's so much to fit into the frame when you get that many characters together.

Trust me, I tried it! I'm sure it would work, but I like the 16:9 comp better.
 

Gieferg

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"Better" is very subjective.
True. I meant, more in my taste.

I also think Avengers looks better is 16:9 than 2:35:1
Have you seen first Avengers in 2.35:1?
-----
Ok, back to JL.

Of course to each his own. Directors preferred AR is 4:3 and I like it more than 1.78:1, my preferred AR is 2.35:1 (so I'll get it eventually), to see more picture - 4:3 wins, and if I really want to see it 1.78:1 there's always theatrical version (or someone's else fanedit for that matter ;)).
 

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True. I meant, more in my taste.


Have you seen first Avengers in 2.35:1?
-----
Ok, back to JL.

Of course to each his own. Directors preferred AR is 4:3 and I like it more than 1.78:1, my preferred AR is 2.35:1 (so I'll get it eventually), to see more picture - 4:3 wins, and if I really want to see it 1.78:1 there's always theatrical version (or someone's else fanedit for that matter ;)).
I also intend to release my cut in 4:3, for the purists. However, even that won't be "purist" because I'll have to reframe the theatrical shots. There's no way to win!
 

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Great to see you back in the edit seat ....I went awol too, so it will be great to see your deft hand chisel this one out.

Michelangelo said that the statues he carved were already in the block of marble; he just removed the excess stone!!!!

Looks like a big block of marble to me.
Chisel away good sir!
 

spence

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Great to see you back in the edit seat ....I went awol too, so it will be great to see your deft hand chisel this one out.

Michelangelo said that the statues he carved were already in the block of marble; he just removed the excess stone!!!!

Looks like a big block of marble to me.
Chisel away good sir!
Looking forward to releasing it. Just need the damn Blu-Ray release!

I've also got an edit of The Stand 2020 miniseries in the cards, but I need that to come out on physical media as well.
 

Wraith

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Ditto my Extended Hateful 8
 

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Used the 2017 version's ending to the fishing village sequence to remove the awkward song and get out of the scene cleaner.
i wonder if a blend of the two versions would be better? to pick best lines and shots... and cut away before the crowd sings. also would it be better to digitally remove the crowd behind them on the shore?
 

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If you want Red & Blue Superman just use the Whedon version of it. Give Superman The Black Suit in the "dream sequences"
 

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So now that I have a copy of this on Blu-Ray (it has been released in the UK) am I allowed to put this back into In-the-works?

Some new ideas and changes:
- Aspect Ratio will be 2:35:1 for the majority of the film, but switch to 1:85 for some of the bigger action sequences to give it that IMAX vibe. Snyder did this for BvS so it's in keeping with the prior films. This gaives me a bit more freedom to edit certain scenes.
- Scenes from the Whedon version and other DC films will be color corrected as best as possible to match the Snyder color balance.
- The opening is a shortened version of the Snyder Cut credit sequence, but without the credits. I like the idea of Superman's death awakening the Mother Boxes, but I hate how long the sequence is. It moves a lot faster now. The sequence ends with "Alert the queen!" then goes straight into the credits.
- Credits are now the "everybody knows" credits from the Whedon version. Honestly, it's an awesome sequence, covers a lot of ground, and something I had assumed was Snyder's work as he has a habit of doing amazing credit sequences.
- After the credits, go straight to Bruce arriving at the fishing village. This whole sequence will be a mix of Whedon and Snyder versions. I like the clippier dialogue in Whedon's version, but don't like some of forced humor.
- Use the 2017 version's ending to the fishing village sequence to remove the awkward song and get out of the scene cleaner.
- Cut the Lois being sad scene and Martha driving away from the farm, two scenes that are now covered in the opening credits.
- Cut Wonder Woman vs. the terrorists sequence. It’s a great action scene but has very little to do with the plot. Themyscira is now the first big action scene, which happens earlier than before and kicks the plot into motion.
- After Bruce and Alfred speak on the plane, go straight to the Amazonians. This sequence will be in 1:85 ration. I will also trim it down a bit just to get things moving a little faster. It's the first big action beat of the film now, so it needs a bit more pace.
- I want to remove the Willem Dafoe scene, I don't feel like we really need him in the film. Similar ground is covered later with Mera.
- Cut Diana investigating the arrow and the cave paintings. She knows what the warning means and goes directly to Bruce.
- Cut a few Star Labs sequences for pacing. Lots of repeated information and over explaining.
- Keep Cyborg's origin story, but remove all the audio tape stuff. Just cut away before Cyborg starts listening to it. This will unfortunately remove the sequence where Cyborg plays around in cyberspace, a bit I personally like, but gets the movie moving. We pause the story for far too long to introduce two new characters. A little goes a long way.
- Cut Barry saving Iris. His first scene is when he speaks to his dad at the prison. Again, the movie stops dead at this point to introduce Cyborg and Flash. It needs to happen faster and feel more organic.
- Use the 2017 version of the “I’m rich” gag as I thought it played better.
- Use the 2017 version of the Mera/Arthur scene to retain her American accent for continuity with the other films.
- Cut Martian Manhunter completely out of the film. I thought the scene between Lois and Martha was quite nice, and it's kind of shame it's revealed that it wasn't really Martha.
- Cut any references to the anti-life equation and Steppenwolf finding it. The story is more or less "Darkseid tried to conquer earth and failed, so Steppenwolf is now trying it again to earn Darkseid's forgiveness."
- Cut some of the business with transporting Superman to the ship. They dig him up and then go straight into the truck driving in. I liked the pacing of this section of the film better in the 2017 version, but I also like the digging scene in this version better. So a compromise between the two.
- Cut Alfred warning Bruce about reviving Superman. It doesn't really lead anywhere and the movie needs to get moving at this point.
- Cut hint at Lois being pregnant.
- Cut Cyborg’s vision of the Knightmare.
- Cut Bruce explaining the Knightmare to Diana.
- Cut Darkseid's dialogue at the end. He just sees the team through the portal and seethe's. This would make it apparent that he's not done with the Justice League, but doesn't offer an explicit promise of what's to come next.
- Cut most of the epilogue, including the Lex scene, the Knightmare, and the Martian Manhunter scene.
- Tweak the ending montage. Victor no longer repairs the tape recorder as the scene where he crushed it earlier is removed. I was thinking of adding a shot of Diana flying from the end of WW84 to replace her picking up the arrow. It's more heroic. I will also change Aquaman's sequence, either using the Whedon version or some shots from the Aquaman movie, just so Dafoe doesn't randomly show up. I also think I'd like to put Superman back in his Blue and Red costume at the end, and keep the shot of him flying away as the last image.

I'm expecting a runtime of 2 hours and 45 minutes, which seems appropriate for a big superhero team up movie of this scope.
 

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The sequence ends with "Alert the queen!" then goes straight into the credits.

Exactly like in mine :) (i have different credits sequence, though).

What did convince you to use 2.35:1 ? That's much more reframing work.
 

spence

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Exactly like in mine :) (i have different credits sequence, though).

What did convince you to use 2.35:1 ? That's much more reframing work.
I try my best not to look at what other faneditors are doing when I'm working on something. Hopefully there's not too many similarities! If there are, they aren't intentional.

As for 2:35:1, I like the way it looks better just from a personal POV. Also, it made it possible to cut out the credits in the opening. I think keeping 1:85:1 for the action scenes feels natural enough, but 2:35:1 in the more dramatic scenes makes them feel more, well, dramatic.
 

Gieferg

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There is some, but there's also a whole lot of differences, for example - I won't cut Barry saving Iris or Wonder Woman opening action sequence or Vulko (at least not in "stage 2", because he has been already entirely cut for my Stage 3 edit, Iris is still there).

I think keeping 1:85:1 for the action scenes feels natural enough,

Under condition it's the change for the whole sequence, not Nolan's back and forth crazy AR ;)
 
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spence

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i wonder if a blend of the two versions would be better? to pick best lines and shots... and cut away before the crowd sings. also would it be better to digitally remove the crowd behind them on the shore?
Sorry, real late reply.

Using Aquaman swimming away from the 2017 version, then ending on Bruce's "Doesn't mean I'm wrong" doesn't really necessitate removal of the crowd, which is nice. It's just a cleaner ditch from the sequence.
 

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I'm going to have a rough cut of this available soon if anyone is interested in taking a look and providing feedback. Running time about 2 hrs 45 minutes.
 

spence

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Anybody figure out the opening credits font?
 
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