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JAMES CAMERON RETURNS TO TERMINATOR

Duragizer

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Don't really like the look of the cinematography. Still, I'll remain cautiously optimistic for the meantime.
 

TomH1138

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Looks fun and exciting! 

Of course, it raises questions (Are these spoilers if the moments are in the trailer? Well, I'll put the tags around it anyway for now, since I'm also mentioning moments in other Terminator movies and deleted scenes):

1) Who's the new young woman who's apparently part robot, and more to the point, why is she now the new hope for humanity instead of John Connor? And where is he? (Mind you, the movies haven't really gotten John right once yet, so I can't complain too much.)

2) Which films is it keeping continuity with? Cameron said that he loved Genesys and considered it the true third film in the series, but it wreaked havoc on the timeline, and it was another critical and box-office disappointment. I'm guessing that, once again, Terminator 1 and 2 are canon, and everything else is being disregarded.

3) What's with the old Arnie? Is this another case like in Genesys, where a Terminator was sent back ages ago and has lived a really long time at this point, being reprogrammed to help Sarah? But then it looks like he's living in a house. There was a deleted scene from T3 where we saw a human soldier that became the basis for the robot models. Are they revisiting the idea? It's a gag in T3 where he has a silly country accent instead of Arnie's voice, but since it's only a deleted scene, they could discard that part of it, and still have Sarah become friends with a soldier who becomes the basis for the Terminators.

4) And, of course, the age-old question: What's the MPAA rating going to be? Mind you, my problems with Salvation and Genesys don't have anything to do with the PG-13 rating on each. But a lot of fans are going to be mad if the movie doesn't get an R, especially since they were promised an R for Genesys but it didn't happen anyway. Nonetheless, fans mostly got over their frustration with Venom not getting an R rating, turning it into a big hit. But in that case, there were no earlier R-rated Venom movies to compare it to. We've seen fans respond positively to movies that got a bump up in ratings (Star Wars going from PG to PG-13), but we've yet to see a franchise that went down in MPAA ratings and retained the favor of the fans. Frankly, I'd like to see if someone could actually pull it off.

Anyway, all just interesting things to think about. But I'm looking forward to this, especially
the return of Sarah Connor!
 

addiesin

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TomH1138 said:
1) Who's the new young woman who's apparently part robot, and more to the point, why is she now the new hope for humanity instead of John Connor? And where is he? (Mind you, the movies haven't really gotten John right once yet, so I can't complain too much.)


This is the most interesting stuff to me, I think it's likely that John Connor was Terminated (or was never born, if T2 is out, which I doubt), like a flip on T3. I don't think robo human lady is the new JC, I think she's the new Kyle Reese counterpart and the present day dark haired woman is the new John/savior character.

The planes kissing actually made me laugh. The Terminator movies all just have to have that big vehicle moment after T2 did the mack truck motorcycle chase.
 

TMBTM

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I'm still optimistic too, even though this trailer was pretty average.
The music choice didn't help at all...
I love me some Bjork but neither the original nor that cover could work for this trailer.
 

Jrzag42

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I've still never seen a Terminator film. I should really get on that.
 

Junglist Paja

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jrWHAG42 said:
I've still never seen a Terminator film. I should really get on that.

I'd say go with these versions

The Terminator - Color Regrade - by Dek Rollins

Terminator 2 - 2015 Blu-Ray
 

TomH1138

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addiesin said:
This is the most interesting stuff to me, I think it's likely that John Connor was Terminated (or was never born, if T2 is out, which I doubt), like a flip on T3. I don't think robo human lady is the new JC, I think she's the new Kyle Reese counterpart and the present day dark haired woman is the new John/savior character.

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

It was very heavily implied at the end of Genesys that John Connor might not be born after all. In the new timeline, Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor didn't fall in love and conceive John within a few short hours of knowing each other, and they saw that this timeline's version of John became a villain, which would hardly encourage them to become a couple and start making babies. If Cameron is keeping Genesys as canon, then that would certainly be the natural following point.

I expect I'll like something about this movie, as I've found something to enjoy in all of them so far. The low point for me is probably Salvation, and even that one had an interesting premise and some nice visuals. And I'm not such a hardcore fan that the filmmakers have ever enraged me with their creative choices. Even with Genesys, I just laughed at the complete lunacy of it all. I'm not as invested as I am in, say, Star Wars. So whatever they do, I'll probably get a kick out of it.
 

asterixsmeagol

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TomH1138 said:
2) Which films is it keeping continuity with? Cameron said that he loved Genesys and considered it the true third film in the series, but it wreaked havoc on the timeline, and it was another critical and box-office disappointment. I'm guessing that, once again, Terminator 1 and 2 are canon, and everything else is being disregarded.
Yeah, this is what they have said.

TomH1138 said:
3) [REDACTED] There was a deleted scene from T3 where we saw [REDACTED], but since it's only a deleted scene, they could discard that part of it
It doesn't matter if the scene was deleted or not because, as you already guessed above, T3 doesn't count at all anyway.
 

Canon Editor

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Happy to see some interest in the movie. 

Indeed, T3, 4 and 5 are not being considered canon, as this is a direct sequel to T2. 

For those worried, Cameron has confirmed the R-rating yesterday.
 

bionicbob

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The first trailer did zero to to gain my interest.  

But this newest one makes me think "maybe this might be fun?".... (mostly because of Linda Hamilton)


Though honestly, could they not do something ORIGINAL with the franchise at this point?  Another time travel/change the future movie...sigh...
Salvation may have had some flaws, but at least it tried something new.

But hey, maybe there will be some big fresh new twist to make it all worthwhile...? 


So who do you think the girl is they are trying to protect?
John Connor's daughter?   We know Edward Furlong has a role in the movie, so I was surprised they did not include him the latest trailer.
 

hbenthow

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Several details in this newest trailer seem to confirm the recent plot leaks. According to the leaks, John Connor
was killed immediately after the events of "Terminator 2: Judgement Day", and the reason that Sarah Connor wants to kill Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator character is that he's the one who killed John. If the rumor is true, Edward Furlong is probably digitally de-aged to look as he did in "Judgment Day".
 

The Scribbling Man

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I'm not sold yet, but that trailer is a significant improvement over the first.
 

bionicbob

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Just returned from the matinee...

My wife loved it, and gives it 8.5 out of 10.

I was less impressed, and generously give it 7 out of 10.

I thoroughly enjoyed Linda Hamilton and Arnold.  Hamilton brings some much needed gravitas to the film.   And though I had many, many (oh so many lol) problems with Arnold's Terminator storyline, there is no denying he is a scene stealer.

The new generation of heroes are solid, though lacking the same level of onscreen charisma as their seniors.

There was a lot press and hoopla from the marketing department promoting James Cameron return to the franchise with this film as a producer, but if he actually had much influence on this movie, I do not really see it.  Visually, it does not remotely look like a Cameron movie.  The colour palette is dull, dark and uninteresting.   And the movie's over dependence and saturation of CGI breaks the wall of cinematic reality very early on in the first act and never recovers, making most of the big action scenes tensionless.

But I guess the biggest issue I had is with the Big Twist (which happens in the first 5 minutes), as it never feels earned and makes first two classic Terminator movies narratively pointless.  And after that, this movie just feels like a tired plot retread of T2.  

My advice, save your money and use it to buy TERMINATOR:  THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES.  A much more respectful, rewarding and entertaining viewing experience.
 

bionicbob

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bionicbob said:
But I guess the biggest issue I had is with the Big Twist (which happens in the first 5 minutes), as it never feels earned and makes first two classic Terminator movies narratively pointless.  And after that, this movie just feels like a tired plot retread of T2.  

The more and more I think about this movie, the angrier I get as a long time fan.

Not only does this new movie make T1 and T2 pointless, it says the characters you invested in for the past 30 years are utterly disposable.

I mean the new movie literally has a scene where Sarah says Dani is the new John.

And apparently, this was all Cameron's idea...
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29681614/terminator-dark-fate-twist-james-cameron/

And maybe it could have been pulled off with a better script or direction?  Maybe something was cut?
I dunno.
But as a long time fan, instead of the Big Twist being an emotional dramatic gut punch, it felt more like a kick in the balls.
 

TMBTM

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bionicbob said:
bionicbob said:
But I guess the biggest issue I had is with the Big Twist (which happens in the first 5 minutes), as it never feels earned and makes first two classic Terminator movies narratively pointless.  And after that, this movie just feels like a tired plot retread of T2.  

The more and more I think about this movie, the angrier I get as a long time fan.

Not only does this new movie make T1 and T2 pointless, it says the characters you invested in for the past 30 years are utterly disposable.

I mean the new movie literally has a scene where Sarah says Dani is the new John.

And apparently, this was all Cameron's idea...
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29681614/terminator-dark-fate-twist-james-cameron/

And maybe it could have been pulled off with a better script or direction?  Maybe something was cut?
I dunno.
But as a long time fan, instead of the Big Twist being an emotional dramatic gut punch, it felt more like a kick in the balls.

SPOILER AHEAD:
In a way I understand people being angry but it's not exactly like killing Newt at the beginning of Alien 3 for me.
If we take as a basis that Sarah changed the future (a thing I would not have done myself but that's another debat) then John becomes disposable. He can be killed because the future (and so the story) does not need him anymore.
I will not lie, at the end of the opening scene I truely thought that by the end of the movie we were gonna see John come back in a way or another. When the characters started talking about the girl as the new definitive leader I thought... oh... bye John. I don't like that scenario BUT it does not negate the events of Terminator 2. They just went with the story that Sarah succeded in changing the future (but it's a new future where humans are also fucked the same...how convenient for a soft reboot...!) and in that future John does not have a place. So in a way what Sarah thought was a victory at the end of T2 was condemning his son to die.
All this to say that you can somehow rationalize why John has to die without making T2 totaly meaningless.
Hope this can calm you a bit ;)
 

bionicbob

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TMBTM said:
bionicbob said:

SPOILER AHEAD:
In a way I understand people being angry but it's not exactly like killing Newt at the beginning of Alien 3 for me.
If we take as a basis that Sarah changed the future (a thing I would not have done myself but that's another debat) then John becomes disposable. He can be killed because the future (and so the story) does not need him anymore.
I will not lie, at the end of the opening scene I truely thought that by the end of the movie we were gonna see John come back in a way or another. When the characters started talking about the girl as the new definitive leader I thought... oh... bye John. I don't like that scenario BUT it does not negate the events of Terminator 2. They just went with the story that Sarah succeded in changing the future (but it's a new future where humans are also fucked the same...how convenient for a soft reboot...!) and in that future John does not have a place. So in a way what Sarah thought was a victory at the end of T2 was condemning his son to die.
All this to say that you can somehow rationalize why John has to die without making T2 totaly meaningless.
Hope this can calm you a bit ;)

Those are valid points.  I am a wee bit calmer... LOL

But....  :p

T3 established Judgement Day in some form is inevitable, so I did not have any real issue with that plot point. But it also cemented that John Connor is still essential to humanity's survival.  (and yes, I know in this new reality T3 is null and void... which is another point of contention for me... lol.)

However, Dark Fate now says that the Messiah/Savior is disposable and can be replaced.  Sure, the new Leader of Humanity is still going to be trained by Sarah Connor but still....?  

Again, I think it could have worked if it was better written.  There were a couple of nice scenes (Sarah can not remember what John looks like...) but mostly it felt forced rather than earned. 

Mostly the weakness of this movie is lazy, unoriginal writing.  This is just T2 recycled.  There is so many things you could do with this franchise, and they do not include half-assed reboots....

okay, going back to watching the Sarah Connor Chronicles.   :D
 

Jrzag42

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Could some kind of edit be made utilizing 3-6 to tell a new narrative and make an actually good sequel? I'm all for edidits of that sort..

That being said, I thought the trailers looked kinda good, but I've never seen any of the Terminator films so I have no intention of watching this anytime soon.
 

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Neglify said:

After RLM and this (contains spoilers) I think I'll probably skip this one, not just in cinema but alltogether. Uncanny Antman's The Coming Storm will conclude an informal trilogy for me from now on.

jrWHAG42 said:
but I've never seen any of the Terminator films

how is this even possible :p
 

TM2YC

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This rather funny but full of spoilers so just for people that have already seen it, or have decided not to bother...

 
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