• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
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Is it legal? Downloading copies of things you own...

AvP

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yes i would download a fanedit...and click "no i dont own...." :oops:
 

JasonN

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Horrorgrind said:
You somehow seem to think that Fanedits are not digital copies of films. In the eyes of the law, fanedit = film piracy. Some things may have been changed, but it's still a digital copy of a copyrighted film, available for download. I know, I'm taking a stance that many of you don't like, but it's the truth. If everyone were to backup their films, fanedit them, and keep them to themselves, this site wouldn't exist.
The current legality of fanedits and fanediting has been discussed to death (and as I said, Boon and others have sumed it up far better than I), so lets just leave out of this topic.

Since you were so kind to have brought it up from the other thread, I will address specifically what is very concerning to me: your linking your fanedit to an illegal copy of the film. You seem to take issue with me using the term "digital copy" in my previous post (saying that all fanedits equal digital copies of films), so let's also just remove the word "digital" and say what it really is - a copy of the original film. No matter what you may think or say, a fanedit is NOT the original version of a film. Our rules state that for a person to watch/own a fanedited film, they must legitimately and PHYSICALLY own a copy of the original version (via DVD, VHS, etc.) - having a torrented digital copy of the original film DOES NOT COUNT. By providing link/s to an illegal copy of the film's original version, you are saying that your fanedit is no different to the pirated version and that film piracy is pefectly acceptable in the realm of Fanedits (and giving the MPAA and other groups all the more reason to come after fanediting and faneditors).
 

Horrorgrind

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JasonN said:
a fanedit is NOT the original version of a film.
It doesn't matter. It's still copyrighted material. The same reason why movie clips posted on Youtube are often removed due to coypright claim. It may not be the whole film, but it's still copyright infringement.

JasonN said:
having a torrented digital copy of the original film DOES NOT COUNT.
This is not what I'm saying at all. What I'm arguing is that downloading the unaltered film and downloading a fanedit of the film is legally the exact same offense.

If it bothers everyone so much, I'll remove the link. I can see how it is not helping Fanedit.org's battle with the MPAA. I know I am making a name for myself as the most argumentative guy here, but I'm just trying to look at the fanedit community's predicament realistically. I think that most of us believe we have some kind of legal high ground since we alter the films, but that just isn't so.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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Horrorgrind said:
If it bothers everyone so much, I'll remove the link. I can see how it is not helping Fanedit.org's battle with the MPAA.

This is getting at the point. Even prior to the MPAA notice, we had a strong stance on what we thought was right. We still have that stance even though we do not share links here anymore, so we will continue to do what we think is right and in the best interest of teh website, regardless of whether or not you interpret things that way or not

Horrorgrind said:
I know I am making a name for myself as the most argumentative guy here,...

hahahaha, nah, don't worry about that. You still have a ways to go before you win that award. TRUST ME.

Horrorgrind said:
but I'm just trying to look at the fanedit community's predicament realistically. I think that most of us believe we have some kind of legal high ground since we alter the films, but that just isn't so.

Not really, we are not posting links at all on this website, so in that way FE is totally clean. We do however strongly promote the mentality of the rules we had before that change. You must own an official copy of the original film to download and watch a fanedit. Currently the MPAA does not see fanedits as legal, but I feel we (fanedit.org) should always maintain the same values.
 

Daniel

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ThrowgnCpr said:
Horrorgrind said:
Anyone here who has distributed or downloaded copyrighted material (fanedits) online isn't respecting copyright anyway. If someone is seeing that message, then they've already downloaded it. I seriously doubt that seeing a warning message by that point is going to make them stop the DVD. My FBI warning is meant to mimic/mock the ones found on old VHS tapes. Whether they have jurisdiction outside the US is irrelevant. It's obviously not meant to be taken seriously.
I disagree with you here. Even though we have recently been labeled as not in the right as far as fanediting goes, I think we need to stick by our original guidelines set forth by this website. You must own the original to view the fanedit. I put a warning like that at the beginning of a fanedit because I seriously feel that the viewer should own the original film. Which Is why I totally agree with JasonN from another post:
JasonN said:
Horrorgrind said:
Here's the thing. My torrent is clearly labeled as "The Horrorgrind Cut" and "Fanedit" in the title and description, a list of changes, the original and new runtimes, and this message posted at the top in red text:

WARNING: This is a fanedit. It is my take on a classic film, and has been edited heavily. My intention is not to improve the film, but to shorten it and present it differently than it was originally intended. If you can't enjoy it for what it is, don't bother commenting. If you're looking for the full film, download this torrent instead: (link to full film torrent)
And here's where I have a HUGE problem: one of the primary rules with watching or owning a fanedit/s is that you have to physically own the original film (via DVD, VHS, Laserdisc, ect.). With that message where you're linking in your edit's info to a torrent of a film's digital copy, you are promoting film piracy and linking that to your own fanedited works and fanediting in general.
I agree entirely. And to put it in simple terms; RE FBI WARNING: "It's obviously not meant to be taken seriously" but I'm sure the faneditors who put in the fan disclaimer do want it to be taken seriously. In any case I don't mean to single anyone out here.
Just because the MPAA currently does not see fanediting as legal does not mean that we should go full pirate. I think taking a firm stance with our original rules and guidelines is a good solid idea. I for one will NEVER post a link to a pirated copy of a movie anywhere, particularly with my fanedit information.
On credit-cards there is what's called a "smartcard" chip that's widely used in America and in the UK, but which isn't used in Australia. It isn't used for one main reason: the Credit Card issuer needs to bear responsibility for that card's unauthorised use. In the UK and America people have successfully modified their EFTPOS machines to copy the magnetic strip from the smart-card reader onto a blank card, which then allows them to use their copied Credit Card. This copy is made using the original EFTPOS machine that's used to charge the card by the issuer as the reader!

So do you know what they did in Australia? Last year they introduced "Pen or Pin" which encourages Credit Card users to enter a pin instead of their signature. Which is why anytime a customer uses their credit card, I make them sign unless they specifically ask to enter a pin. I flat-out refuse to ask. Because I know the customer has more rights when they sign - you see it's "their" responsibility to keep their PIN secret, however a forged signature is not their responsibility; meaning they retain all their rights surrounding unauthorised use when they sign - and unknowingly give up their rights when they enter a PIN!

But here's where the legalities lie - if we talking about the law, and what's strictly legal; it's illegal to use any card not belonging to you, even with the consent of the card holder (well except business cards that is). So IF someone gives me their card, and asks me to go down to the ATM and withdraw their money for them, I would do it - though it is against the law. That doesn't change the fact that just because I'm willing to break that law, I'm not going to rob a bank, or commit credit-card-fraud.

So again, obviously, I'm agreeing with what you just said.
JasonN said:
Backup mentality has absolutely nothing to do with film piracy, end of story. If you really want to have a digital backup of a film you own, then make it YOURSELF and keep it to YOURSELF - by making a digital copy of a film's original version freely available to the entire internet to download and watch, you are allowing and promoting film piracy.
Yeah that's pretty much it - although that doesn't mean creating a DVD back-up is even legal either, which means that consumers may simply have the choice of "a. illegally creating their own back-up" or "b. illegally downloading a pre-made back-up". So really there's no legally compelling reason to make it yourself if you want to download it and you own it.
 

AvP

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What has credit cards got to do with downloading films? :roll:
 

Daniel

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AvP said:
What has credit cards got to do with downloading films? :roll:
Well, among other things, it's interesting because it demonstrates how easily and readily people will give up their legal rights! Which is why it's an interesting parallel. The same thing with Bluray - people bought the format that raped their rights! Not to mention the format that had the far less capable hardware players; so didn't just rape their rights it also raped their value.
 

boon23

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thing is... and THIS should not be forgotten. If we are talking about fanedits, we are talking about an ARTFORM. Now this website here is devoted to just that. The faneditors are artists and are creating art. Now it is probably illegal to rip a DVD and it is absolutely illegal to share the original DVD with others, especially over the internet, but a fanedit has simply nothing much to do with the original. It's anew take, it's art, it's what we here want to spread as art among those interested. As such this is a whole different thing than usual movie piracy. At least that is my very opinion and the reason why I ma doing what I am doing with a clean conscience.
 
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