Is it legal? Downloading copies of things you own...

[xZombieSushi]

Forgive me if tis has been asked before but I have been wondering this for a bit now, I download alot of movies that I already own because I don't like having to hunt through my boxes (just moved things are still packed) to find a movie I want to watch. It seems to me downloading stuff for your own personal use like this should be legal, but Im not sure.

Also alot of the time I will download something before I buy it to see if I like it before I waste my money, then delete if I don't care for it. Right now my downloading seems to fall into a few categories, one for things I am curious about but weary about buying before I see them, things that are impossible to find except online, things I have on my list to buy but haven't yet, and things I already own but want a copy of just in case.

I guess what Im trying to say in a roundabout way is where do you guys draw the line? What are your personal feelings about downloading things?

My own feelings on the matter...
I don't see a big problem with downloading things for my own personal use, I happen to think that it doesn't do alot of harm ((of course correct me if I am wring, Im always open to new opinions)) but that it's when people try to sell the things they have downloaded that I get mad, because they are making money on something they have no right to sell. Am I wrong to feel angry about it? Is my downloading something that I have no intention to sell just as wrong as someone who does? What are your thoughts?

 

[boon23]

moved to OFF TOPIC because it does not have to do with fanedits.

Downloading movies is risky. It's of course strictly illegal. There are so many options to legally watch movies via streaming or by renting, which spare you from buying them. Unfortunately (or maybe not) downloading movies has become so easy...

 

[xZombieSushi]

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum, I tend to keep multiple tabs open and must have clicked the wrong one when going to post.

In this day and age its become easier to download everything then it is to rent or borrow from the library, which is where I used to get all my movies and such before we moved. (lived directly across the street from the library) Even getting books online is easier. Aside from the legal issues of course.

 

[Horrorgrind]

Personally, I think saying "You must own the original DVD.." is a little naive. I find it very unlikely that everyone downloading Zombie Consecution, for example, owns a legit copy of each of the source DVDs used for the project. And even if they do own them all, it's still illegal to download copyrighted material.

Does the MPAA bust individual people downloading fanedits? It's probably never happened before. You're much more likely to get nailed downloading a cam of the newest summer blockbuster.

I'm not going to say i haven't dealt with bootleggers in the past, but horror bootleggers you see at conventions and things arent the same as the guy you see in chinatown selling DVD screeners of movies that aren't in stores yet. They deal more in rarities, things that will probably never be available for sale (in north america, or not at all) or are long forgotten. To me, this kind of selling is reasonable.

 

[xZombieSushi]

Lol, Im probably the most unlikely to go out of my way to do that, let alone get caught *knock on wood* is it just me or have the so called "summer hits" sucked lately???

 

[joebshmoe]

the most risky thing that you can do is PROVIDE copyrighted material for people to download. not the other way around.

what law or copyright are you breaking by obtaining a digital copy of something you own? it's a grey area, but i highly doubt you are going to get busted for it.

the situation of today is "the middle man" is getting totally fucked by people downloading content. the film and music industries are going extinct because their business model requires too many hands in each basket. how much is going to the artist? practically nothing.

look at artists like trent reznor of NIN. he's COMPLETELY revolutionizing how artists will get paid for their content AND HE'S GIVING IT AWAY. people (consumers) can decipher for themselves when they are getting fucked, and they have decided to respond by NOT REWARDING practices that they deem offensive. they simply do not support big labels that don't make an effort to support THEIR OWN BANDS.

in contrast, small labels and bands are refocusing on the tour and tour merch to create a one on one connection with their audience and it is obviously working. sure, their audience is smaller, but each kid at their show is going to give them money to support the artist - whether that is a t-shirt, vinyl, or CD, etc.

it looks like karma is a bitch and these business models created to oppress artists and creativity are dying off. good riddance. i pay full price to support artists i like. that is especially true for music, but it is also true for movies.

voice your opinion with your wallet and support your favorite artists. that's the biggest statement you can make.

 

[Ghostcut]

The one thing i would love most of all is a way to pay the artists directly for things downloaded from P2P networks.
Just like they have with RiffTrax.

 

[Daniel]

Forgive me if tis has been asked before but I have been wondering this for a bit now, I download alot of movies that I already own because I don't like having to hunt through my boxes (just moved things are still packed) to find a movie I want to watch. It seems to me downloading stuff for your own personal use like this should be legal, but Im not sure.

Also alot of the time I will download something before I buy it to see if I like it before I waste my money, then delete if I don't care for it. Right now my downloading seems to fall into a few categories, one for things I am curious about but weary about buying before I see them, things that are impossible to find except online, things I have on my list to buy but haven't yet, and things I already own but want a copy of just in case.

I guess what Im trying to say in a roundabout way is where do you guys draw the line? What are your personal feelings about downloading things?

My own feelings on the matter...
I don't see a big problem with downloading things for my own personal use, I happen to think that it doesn't do alot of harm ((of course correct me if I am wring, Im always open to new opinions)) but that it's when people try to sell the things they have downloaded that I get mad, because they are making money on something they have no right to sell. Am I wrong to feel angry about it? Is my downloading something that I have no intention to sell just as wrong as someone who does? What are your thoughts?

It doesn't matter if it's a movie, music file, or computer game - downloading it, even if you own it, is illegal on your part. On the other hand, ripping music from your CDs and creating other various "back-up" copies may be legal (but also might not be). Copyright is civil, so even if you're doing something illegal - if "actual harm" cannot be established and proved in court then you cannot be sued simply for doing it.

With movies, frankly, it's a little complicated. I always buy the 2nd version of a film if it's a new (or different) transfer, I won't just download it.

Personally, I think saying "You must own the original DVD.." is a little naive. I find it very unlikely that everyone downloading Zombie Consecution, for example, owns a legit copy of each of the source DVDs used for the project. And even if they do own them all, it's still illegal to download copyrighted material.

Yes well, I'd rather seen that disclaimer on a fan DVD than a fake "FBI" one like you used (the FBI doesn't even have jurisdiction outside the USA). Posting a fake FBI warning, by the way, is probably enough to constitute libel; and doesn't show a serious effort to inform the viewer to respect copyright, IMHO.

They deal more in rarities, things that will probably never be available for sale (in north america, or not at all) or are long forgotten. To me, this kind of selling is reasonable.

I'm glad you raised this point, Horrorgrind, because it makes me think about the attitude most Americans have towards imports - they're not import friendly. I don't mean you personally, of course, but what I mean is that most of us serious about our DVD collections have imported from oversease; but Americans are more likely to think "if it's not available in the US, then I'm not going to buy it".

 

[nOmArch]

The one thing i would love most of all is a way to pay the artists directly for things downloaded from P2P networks.
Just like they have with RiffTrax.

that would be such a great idea if a workable model could be found although all you really need is a paypal donate button on the artists website or something.

 

[Horrorgrind]

Yes well, I'd rather seen that disclaimer on a fan DVD than a fake "FBI" one like you used (the FBI doesn't even have jurisdiction outside the USA). Posting a fake FBI warning, by the way, is probably enough to constitute libel; and doesn't show a serious effort to inform the viewer to respect copyright, IMHO.

Anyone here who has distributed or downloaded copyrighted material (fanedits) online isn't respecting copyright anyway. If someone is seeing that message, then they've already downloaded it. I seriously doubt that seeing a warning message by that point is going to make them stop the DVD. My FBI warning is meant to mimic/mock the ones found on old VHS tapes. Whether they have jurisdiction outside the US is irrelevant. It's obviously not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[boon23]

the reason for FE warnings is to inform people of dangers, so they cannot claim that they did not know it. It keeps the responsibility with the ones who download something. As such the faneditor or uploader does not tempt people into doing illegal stuff, but the downloader has to take full responsibility for his own actions, if he gets in trouble. So, I for one do not care if people really own the DVDs as long as it's not obvious. I consider it their problem, if they break laws and I would like to keep it that way. However, if they bring it clearly to my attention, then I feel forced to intervene, as FE policy is to run this place as safe and not illegal as possible. Yes, I know that nothing concerning fanedits is truly legal, but that does not mean to me that all criminals are the same.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

Anyone here who has distributed or downloaded copyrighted material (fanedits) online isn't respecting copyright anyway. If someone is seeing that message, then they've already downloaded it. I seriously doubt that seeing a warning message by that point is going to make them stop the DVD. My FBI warning is meant to mimic/mock the ones found on old VHS tapes. Whether they have jurisdiction outside the US is irrelevant. It's obviously not meant to be taken seriously.

I disagree with you here. Even though we have recently been labeled as not in the right as far as fanediting goes, I think we need to stick by our original guidelines set forth by this website. You must own the original to view the fanedit. I put a warning like that at the beginning of a fanedit because I seriously feel that the viewer should own the original film. Which Is why I totally agree with JasonN from another post:

Here's the thing. My torrent is clearly labeled as "The Horrorgrind Cut" and "Fanedit" in the title and description, a list of changes, the original and new runtimes, and this message posted at the top in red text:

WARNING: This is a fanedit. It is my take on a classic film, and has been edited heavily. My intention is not to improve the film, but to shorten it and present it differently than it was originally intended. If you can't enjoy it for what it is, don't bother commenting. If you're looking for the full film, download this torrent instead: (link to full film torrent)

And here's where I have a HUGE problem: one of the primary rules with watching or owning a fanedit/s is that you have to physically own the original film (via DVD, VHS, Laserdisc, ect.). With that message where you're linking in your edit's info to a torrent of a film's digital copy, you are promoting film piracy and linking that to your own fanedited works and fanediting in general.

Just because the MPAA currently does not see fanediting as legal does not mean that we should go full pirate. I think taking a firm stance with our original rules and guidelines is a good solid idea. I for one will NEVER post a link to a pirated copy of a movie anywhere, particularly with my fanedit information.

 

[nOmArch]

Anyone here who has distributed or downloaded copyrighted material (fanedits) online isn't respecting copyright anyway. If someone is seeing that message, then they've already downloaded it. I seriously doubt that seeing a warning message by that point is going to make them stop the DVD.

you'd think so wouldn't you! this was a while back but after i implemented my 'do you own the original dvd' menu system into my edits some guy went absolutely ballistic at me because he got to that screen and pressed the 'No' i dont own the original dvd button and was super pissed that he couldnt watch the movie...

still gives me a chuckle today

 

[xZombieSushi]

That is to funny!!!
But still, he shouldn't be watching if he doesn't own it. Not that everybody follows that rule, its still the rule. What happened after that? Does clicking on the "No" button cause the fan edit to self destruct???

 

[Horrorgrind]

Just because the MPAA currently does not see fanediting as legal does not mean that we should go full pirate. I think taking a firm stance with our original rules and guidelines is a good solid idea. I for one will NEVER post a link to a pirated copy of a movie anywhere, particularly with my fanedit information.

The same Backup mentality would apply to it as well.

Here's what i said in the other thread:
Someone who owns the DVD may be searching for a divx version of the whole movie. You never know. There is nothing in the sacred rules of copyright saying that if you change some of the scenes around, then it's okay to download. If you own the DVD, you can download as much or as little of the film as you want. This is assuming that all this copyrighted material distribution we've been up to is even legal in the first place.

I don't really see what makes my torrent any less pirated than the one I linked to.

 

[Ghostcut]

you'd think so wouldn't you! this was a while back but after i implemented my 'do you own the original dvd' menu system into my edits some guy went absolutely ballistic at me because he got to that screen and pressed the 'No' i dont own the original dvd button and was super pissed that he couldnt watch the movie...

Where? I want to see that!

That is to funny!!!
But still, he shouldn't be watching if he doesn't own it. Not that everybody follows that rule, its still the rule. What happened after that? Does clicking on the "No" button cause the fan edit to self destruct???

If it does, can you tell me how you did it? :lol:

 

[xZombieSushi]

I second that one! So tell us, inquiring ghouls, erm, minds, yea, inquiring minds want to know...:grin:

 

[JasonN]

Just because the MPAA currently does not see fanediting as legal does not mean that we should go full pirate. I think taking a firm stance with our original rules and guidelines is a good solid idea. I for one will NEVER post a link to a pirated copy of a movie anywhere, particularly with my fanedit information.

The same Backup mentality would apply to it as well.

Here's what i said in the other thread:
Someone who owns the DVD may be searching for a divx version of the whole movie. You never know. There is nothing in the sacred rules of copyright saying that if you change some of the scenes around, then it's okay to download. If you own the DVD, you can download as much or as little of the film as you want. This is assuming that all this copyrighted material distribution we've been up to is even legal in the first place.

I don't really see what makes my torrent any less pirated than the one I linked to.

Backup mentality has absolutely nothing to do with film piracy, end of story. If you really want to have a digital backup of a film you own, then make it YOURSELF and keep it to YOURSELF - by making a digital copy of a film's original version freely available to the entire internet to download and watch, you are allowing and promoting film piracy.

(please note that I am refering to the original versions/editions of films - Boon has already stated the legality and issues of fanedits much better than I could)

 

[Horrorgrind]

You somehow seem to think that Fanedits are not digital copies of films. In the eyes of the law, fanedit = film piracy. Some things may have been changed, but it's still a digital copy of a copyrighted film, available for download. I know, I'm taking a stance that many of you don't like, but it's the truth. If everyone were to backup their films, fanedit them, and keep them to themselves, this site wouldn't exist.

 

[nOmArch]

you'd think so wouldn't you! this was a while back but after i implemented my 'do you own the original dvd' menu system into my edits some guy went absolutely ballistic at me because he got to that screen and pressed the 'No' i dont own the original dvd button and was super pissed that he couldnt watch the movie...

Where? I want to see that!

jay & silent bob (i think) demons or tpb if the torrents are still going.

That is to funny!!!
But still, he shouldn't be watching if he doesn't own it. Not that everybody follows that rule, its still the rule. What happened after that? Does clicking on the "No" button cause the fan edit to self destruct???

If it does, can you tell me how you did it? :lol:

there was some talk about maybe putting in some custom commands in dvdlab to force a unrecoverable loop thereby forcing the person to turn off the player before it could be used again. in the end* i decided to just link to a funny clip about what happens to people that go to prison and then straight back to the main menu.



*read 'couldnt work out how to do it.'