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Welcome! The intention of this thread is to encourage some friendly discussion about what role older films play in the creation of newer films. Everybody can chime in with their opinion, and hey, maybe even learn something about films they haven't seen.
For the purposes of this thread:
-an Influence is: when a director, writer, or some person(s) involved in making a film include an element which is very similar to a previous film (that they may reasonably have seen). An example would be the story conceit of The Hangover, likely influenced by Dude, Where's My Car?...both films involve guys waking up from a night of partying to find something missing, which is the driving force of the rest of the film's narrative. However, the stakes are considerably higher in The Hangover, many details are different enough to suggest the filmmakers wanted to do something new, and it's likely not a tribute to the earlier film.
-an Homage is: when some person(s) involved in making a film include a combination of elements staged in such a way as to pay tribute and respect to an earlier film (from the Latin "hominaticum"- declaring yourself to your lord.) An example would be several of the action sequences in Hot Fuzz, which are homages to both Point Break and Bad Boys. Not only are the characters' actions the same, but the shots are composed nearly identically. While not absolutely necessary to do, we know this is an intentional homage because comparisons to those films have been set up earlier in Hot Fuzz.
-an outright Theft is: when some person(s) involved in making a film has closely imitated multiple elements of an earlier film to recreate the tone or beat of a scene without substantially adding anything new to it and without hinting to a general audience that it is in tribute. While obviously subjective, a good rule of thumb would be to apply the same standards as for Cultural Appropriation. Is the new film using the original film's elements in a way which respects their original intent? Or are they being used purely for aesthetics in order to profit from the uniqueness of the original idea? (Legally, the admittedly squishy standard is if the filmmaker is clearly making a reference or if it can be successfully argued that they are passing off the scene/idea as their own.) Some pretty clear-cut examples include the infamous promotional posters for Solo: A Star Wars Story, and Shia LaBeouf's short film HowardCantour.com, which stole specific scenes and dialogue from the comic "Justin M Damiano", as well as its general premise.
So to kick this off, I thought I'd go to an old classic debate and see how people weigh in...
Star Wars: A New Hope versus The Hidden Fortress.
For anyone unfamiliar with the similarities, there are many articles, including this one. The overall argument seems to be that some of the story premise, the basic characters and relationships, and some particular shot compositions from The Hidden Fortress line up very similarly with A New Hope. So what do you think? Was it an influence, and homage, or theft?
Credit to @"Moe_Syzlak" for suggesting this thread and the name!
For the purposes of this thread:
-an Influence is: when a director, writer, or some person(s) involved in making a film include an element which is very similar to a previous film (that they may reasonably have seen). An example would be the story conceit of The Hangover, likely influenced by Dude, Where's My Car?...both films involve guys waking up from a night of partying to find something missing, which is the driving force of the rest of the film's narrative. However, the stakes are considerably higher in The Hangover, many details are different enough to suggest the filmmakers wanted to do something new, and it's likely not a tribute to the earlier film.
-an Homage is: when some person(s) involved in making a film include a combination of elements staged in such a way as to pay tribute and respect to an earlier film (from the Latin "hominaticum"- declaring yourself to your lord.) An example would be several of the action sequences in Hot Fuzz, which are homages to both Point Break and Bad Boys. Not only are the characters' actions the same, but the shots are composed nearly identically. While not absolutely necessary to do, we know this is an intentional homage because comparisons to those films have been set up earlier in Hot Fuzz.
-an outright Theft is: when some person(s) involved in making a film has closely imitated multiple elements of an earlier film to recreate the tone or beat of a scene without substantially adding anything new to it and without hinting to a general audience that it is in tribute. While obviously subjective, a good rule of thumb would be to apply the same standards as for Cultural Appropriation. Is the new film using the original film's elements in a way which respects their original intent? Or are they being used purely for aesthetics in order to profit from the uniqueness of the original idea? (Legally, the admittedly squishy standard is if the filmmaker is clearly making a reference or if it can be successfully argued that they are passing off the scene/idea as their own.) Some pretty clear-cut examples include the infamous promotional posters for Solo: A Star Wars Story, and Shia LaBeouf's short film HowardCantour.com, which stole specific scenes and dialogue from the comic "Justin M Damiano", as well as its general premise.
So to kick this off, I thought I'd go to an old classic debate and see how people weigh in...
Star Wars: A New Hope versus The Hidden Fortress.
For anyone unfamiliar with the similarities, there are many articles, including this one. The overall argument seems to be that some of the story premise, the basic characters and relationships, and some particular shot compositions from The Hidden Fortress line up very similarly with A New Hope. So what do you think? Was it an influence, and homage, or theft?
Credit to @"Moe_Syzlak" for suggesting this thread and the name!