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How to separate DVD surround sound tracks?

Sprug's decapitated head

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Boon, i just saw that you wrote "But if you mean how I seperate the surround files into one track per channel, then I don't do that at all. It it currently too much work and I have not found an efficient way to do it." in the HC topic.

Well, there's this edit that i would like to do, that requires 2 pieces of a scene to be swapped around. But the problem is, a song is playing and if i were to swap the footage as-is, it would sound funky and not work because of an obvious music jump. So i'm curious, on simple terms so you wouldn't have to type a lot - how could i do that? Does it require buying a device, expensive software, etc. -- or is it just very tedious and require the use of several programs? Thanks to you or anyone else that can give me some answers on the subject. I've always been very curious about this issue.
 

boon23

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I think "sound" is one of THE issues when making a fanedit.
If it was possible to rally extract a voice from a score, this would be terrific, but I know no software that does this on an acceptable quality level.
When I have the same problem, I cheat:
- you can resound the entire scene from scratch, using background noises and score and even maybe a fitting piece of voice. It is very tedious, but works.
- you can also overlap the videos, so the audio tracks can fade into each other, where you want it to be.

still what you need is a great audio editor. I recommend either ULEAD MEDIA STUDIO 8.0, because it has a live view of what you do, or Adobe Audition. When I use AA, I have the video open in virtual dub and replace the audio all the time with the new audio I just created to check for synchronicity.
CBB had to resound a lot of scenes in Blade 3 and currently no one has ever criticized this, so it probably wasn't that bad.
 

Sprug's decapitated head

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I see i see.. thanks man! Will see what i can come up with. Btw the sound & music alterations in Blade 3 BTK are great in my opinion. And the movie in general -- well, i actually enjoyed the edit (quite good!), and this is coming from someone who considers the release version to be a turd lol. Great job all around!
 

boon23

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thanks a lot, sprug. This sure was a major editing project. You would just shake your head if you really knew what it all was we changed.
 

TeresofBlood

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Cinematize allows you to break all of the 5.1 channels into separate audio tracks. For instance, on my FVJ edit, I had to cut out some dialogue, but it was made easy because the audio was on a separate track, so I was able to trim the music slightly to get it to all fit.
 

boon23

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now that sounds very cool. I have to look into that.
 

TeresofBlood

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It's also what I use to rip the MPEG files from the DVD files. It isn't just for sound.
 

DoctorM

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I've used extracted center channel audio for dialog and then paired it up against a second track of effects/music from the other 4.1 channels using software as basic as GraphEdit, SoftEncode and Mpeg Video Wizard. Not often mind you since it's really tedious. Even then if they expanded the dialog to other speakers or put a bunch of effects or music in the center channel it'll be iffy.

If you're doing any extensive use of that, you really want to separate all the channels and use something like Sony Vegas. Even then perfection is probably unobtainable.

I think I speak for a lot of editor when I say we just do the best we can with what we have.
 

Sprug's decapitated head

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Teres, i got a copy of Cinematize, but i can't figure out how to separate the audio streams. How can i do that? I've looked through the manual, but see no mention of that feature. What version do you have?? The regular version or Pro? I have regular version 2.0.2.5. All i keep getting, despite trying all of the different settings, the program keeps outputting only one mixed audio track, even though this is a 5.1/ac3 surround DVD. DoctorM, i may have to end up the programs you mentioned. Thanks.
 

TeresofBlood

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I am using pro of the latest version. Once you have the files imported there are a bunch of tabs at the top. Click the audio tab. The 'audio stream' choice is where you choose track you want - english, spanish, commentary, etc. The next choice is the decoding options. I leave it on 'decode to wav'. Below that there is a downmixing option. Choose 'decode all channels'. This will give you 6 separate audio tracks, all synced out with the video.
 

TeresofBlood

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Unfortunately, it may be that program that has been presenting me with the VIDEO problems with my editing program. So, you can at the very least import the sound from cinematize, even if you dont use it for video purposes. The sound alone is worth the money.
 

TeresofBlood

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Last night I tried importing footage for my punisher edit as a test and I had different problems with the footage, that all seem to be coming from cinematize, in terms of the footage, so here is my recommendation. Edit like you normally would, but when you need to edit sound, just take snippets from the audio with cinematize and sync it manually. I haven't this method yet, but I'll let you know.

Edit: I've never tried what I just said, but here is what I'm going to try.

1. Rip DVD w/ Decrypter
2. Demux w/ PGCdemux (as opposed to Cinematize)
3. Mux to Mpeg w/ Imago
4. Edit w/ Adobe Premiere
5. When sound editng is necessary, take the ripped dvd files and import them into Cinematize
6. Export the audio only in wav format(convert to ac3 w/ Imago if necessary)
7. Import the raw streams into your editor and manually sync them. Edit each channel individually and voila.

Note: For ease of syncing, I would recommend creating a new audio track on the timeline and leaving the mpeg sound file. syncing the sound with the sound will be easier than syncing the sound with the picture. Once you've synced the raw challens w/ the mpeg sound, delete the mpeg sound entirely.

Note 2: You can also edit the mpeg alone and import ALL of your sound with cinematize and manually sync it that way. This way would be more tedious, but your sound type and quality would be more consistent.
 

Sprug's decapitated head

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Thanks again man, sounds good - except ffs, the cinematize pro demo only allows 10 freaking seconds to be decoded. This really sucks being i don't have $130-$150 to buy the prog. right now. I mean it's cool that the demo lasts about 2 weeks -- but what good is a demo that allows only 10 second decodings? ...lol
 

PaulisDead2221

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Dude, hypercube transcoder man. You bring in the ac3 file, follow a tutorial on the site, and real easy it'll separate all the tracks into 6 mono files. Then that's it basically, if you wanna switch something around, delete the audio on your timeline, bring those in, yadda yadda yadda you know?
 

ADigitalMan

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What PaulIsDead said ... Hypercube Transcoder all the way!

Then load all six WAV files into Vegas and, importantly, align them at the start of the timeline and group them so when you move one, you move all six. You can toggle on and off the ability to ignore your groupings whenever you need to edit a single channel. Then just re-export back into AC3. Quality is virtually indistinguishable from the original.
 
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