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How to Encode Womble Mpeg Video Wizard projects with HCenc

I seem to remember hearing that you could use Womble as long as you go with an external encoder, but are you guys saying don't do that?
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That's right. At least I wouldn't given the fact that Womble does things to the video when frameserving that I would consider unacceptable. A conversion to RGB wouldn't be too bad, but apparently Womble messes up the color levels when it performs this conversion. That combined with the needless resizing artifacts means that frameserving is a bad idea, in my opinion.

I took a quick look at your video. The resize calculation in the script should be 720x480 because IIRC that is the resolution of the AOTC DVD. It was just chance that the source video used in the guide was 704x480. The resize calculation should always match the size of the video that you are working with in Womble.

I don't see why MPEG-1 was specified. Use AC-3.

I take it when you exported, you were trying to export a clip as we discussed. It looks like you exported the entire timeline, not just your work area. That would probably explain why you had a long video that was black apart from the clip.

You mentioned bitrates. When you use HC Enc for a full length movie, the average bitrate should be calculated using videohelp's bitrate viewer. The maximum bitrate that you inputted was correct though, and the bitrates you put in were fine for a clip anyway: just letting you know for future reference.

For other settings, 16:9 is the correct one to check in HC Enc in this case. I will take a look at the framerate. You might have an issue there too.

EDIT: I looked at the framerate. It's been hard telecined, which is probably because you are editing in 29.97fps on the timeline. The telecine is really odd. I don't know why it's done what it's done, but it's not following the standard pattern you would expect from a 2:3 pulldown. It's more like a progressive pattern with the fourth frame duplicated, It seems to play okay though, and this telecine is acceptable in NTSC. I haven't seen it on a DVD though. You will probably get it away with it. As the prequels have so much effects work, it might be in the original and not Womble's doing, but if so I'd be a little surprsed.

The video looks tolerable. The prequels look like cartoons anyway lol.
 
Thanks CK. I was indeed only trying to export a clip. I went back and checked my Womble file and only the clip portion is included in the work area. I did have other items outside the work area, so I saved a new copy and deleted everything except the clip portion, plus double-checked that the work area covered only the clip. For some reason the same thing happened - the video portion is way too long after the encode.

If I could just get %$@#ing Vegas Studio to work, I'd stop worrying about Womble. I did finally get a response from Sony, though it was the predictable email pointing me to help articles I've already tried (they also apologized for the delay, claiming it was because the new release was so popular). At their suggestion, I emailed back with a little more information on what is happening - I'm hoping they'll be able to help this time but who knows.
 
TV's Frink said:
Thanks CK. I was indeed only trying to export a clip. I went back and checked my Womble file and only the clip portion is included in the work area. I did have other items outside the work area, so I saved a new copy and deleted everything except the clip portion, plus double-checked that the work area covered only the clip. For some reason the same thing happened - the video portion is way too long after the encode.
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Just a suggestion: If you click on the export tab and go to details, you should have see a predominantly blue strip for video with some red parts. If you have a massive red bar with some strips of blue, the chances are that you have something on the timeline even if it's hard to see. I suggest this because I have often left a few frames on the timeline without meaning to do so, and found it hard to realize why the details tab was so red. If this doesn't help, I don't know what to suggest.

Try Adobe Premiere Elements. You might have more luck than with Vegas Movie Studio.
 
Frink, I will say that starting out Womble is just the easiest editing program to use. What I've been doing lately is the majority of my editing in Womble, then when I have to do something more complicated I convert the scenes I need to avi and do it in vegas/after effects, then add that finished file back into my womble project. I find it very easy to get screwed up in the other programs, so I dont trust doing my entire edit in them.

I need to give this external encoder thing a try, I think.
 
Thanks spence. Womble was really easy to learn but I definitely want to give Vegas a try - a lot of people here seem to really like it.

I actually made a bit of progress with Movie Studio - I was able to get it started up in safe mode. However, I can't register it because in safe mode I have no internet connection.

I also was able to download Movie Studio 9 (the previous version) and can open that one no problem. But from the comparison chart on the Vegas website, it looks severely limited. It can't even export ac3 audio.

Waiting on customer service again. They've actually been fairly helpful the last few days.
 
Okay, here's a weird-as-hell problem I haven't encountered before: I'm trying to export the usual MPEG2 from Womble, going off an .mv2/.ac3 file project. While the output window looks fine the exported sync in certain sections is a full second or so off. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling Womble, saving as separate streams and then combining them, but no dice. The really weird thing is that other section reading from the same files have no sync issues at all - and again, everything is properly aligned in-program. Only remedy I can think of is to defrag the ol' HD, but I don't see why that should help... since this error is consistent, only appearing in limited instances.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? Must I turn to HCenc, and will that work? And finally, why, God, why? :-o
 
Are there any gaps on your timeline? Womble can sometimes add 60 secs delay to certain audio files. I don't know why, but it does.
 
There is a gap, yes, but I tried plugging it, and the 1-2 second off-sync remains....:oops:
 
Is your m2v 23.976fps or 29.97fps? 23.976fps is always better if possible.

Have you tried bringing the exported video and audio back into your project and seeing which lines up with the last frame of your project? The video might be out by a frame or so, of course. It shouldn't be necessary, but you could try the GOP fixer on the exported video.

This probably isn't much help, but I don't know what to suggest really.
 
^ But that's the thing... some sections export fine, then it starts going wonky, in the middle of a clip.

Think I can cover it up, though. :p
 
Gaith said:
^ But that's the thing... some sections export fine, then it starts going wonky, in the middle of a clip.
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The only think that I can think of is that there might a difference in framerate in those clips and Womble isn't handling it properly when you export. I wouldn't know how to fix this in Womble if this were the case, so I hope you can find a solution. I'm sorry I can't be more help. Good luck! :)
 
I've checked, thanks, and ain't no different frame rate! But that's not all:

The Womble-exported video file has included a second or two of footage I edited out at least twice.

I'll email them and see what I get, because this is bloomin' ridiculous. I tried re-synching the first scene that goes off, but within five minutes, they synch keeps falling off - and yet it sounds fine, with no obvious gaps or jumps. :-(

Could this be my computer's fault, somehow? A corrupted file, an insufficiently defragged hd? But if it is, why does Womble make the same mistakes on several export attempts? <RLM voice>I'm SO confused! :p
 
Gaith, did you run your m2v through womble's gop fixer before you began editing your file?

What is the framerate? 23.976 or 29.97?

Thank you :)
 
29.97. And yes, I did, but no errors were found. Thank you! :)
 
Thank You!!! More!!! Lol.

I thought that perhaps if you had not run the file thru the gop fixer that that would be what was causing the problem. It could even be just because it is 29.97fps and womble seems quite untrustworthy with that framerate... How far along on your project are you? Would it be a real pain to re-do your edits in 23.976fps?
 
Are you using and Mp3 audios in your video? For some reason, Womble doesn't like those. That's been a huge sync headache for me in the past.

If you are, just convert the audio to mpeg, and use that.
 
No, no mp3s... I might be able to go back to the vobs and paste those in, as the really heavily edited portion of the cut - the death star attack - appears fine, but regardless, I've just emailed Womble, as there's no excuse for the exporting of edited-out frames.
 
During my studying of Womble the past couple days I have come across numerous reports of glitches and synching problems. I can't say for certain what is causing these, but it does not surprise me to see that people might occasionally have such problems when I consider the anatomy of a compressed MPEG file. The format was designed for playback, not editing. Womble seems to have done an amazing job developing tools that overcome most of these obstacles of transcoding and GOP splits, but it still strikes me as a potential recipe for disaster.

Maybe Gaith's problem relates to some glitch in the software or user error, but I put my money on that section of video where you are trying to cut having a funky GOP that GOP fixer couldn't do anything with. It keeps adding frames back in that you cut because it has to in order to maintain the integrity of that entire compressed long Group Of Pictures.

Does anybody know what GOP fixer does to "fix" such issues? In my mind there is only one way to truly "fix" a GOP for editing. Convert every frame into an I-frame.

In my humble opinion from what I have read, Womble seems good only for situations where it just isn't worth one's time to mess with re-encoding, like working with low-quality source material or mpeg2 material that just needs a couple quick & simple cuts.

As Captain Khajiit has already stated, it would appear that the optimal workflow with Womble would be to edit any scenes that need significant filtering or effects work in a different program through more conventional lossless methods, and then import back into Womble. Then encode using Womble's internal encoder that can do direct passthrough on unedited frames (which is the coolest thing about Womble!)
 
But in converting the finished edited lossless file back to MPEG2, won't there be some quality loss?
 
Technically yes, but limited enough if you do it properly that you probably won't see a difference. If you succeed in your restoration efforts, it will look much improved. :)
 
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