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Here is a small tutorial on how to make accurate film grain with a film grain layer

DonkeyKonga

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The only drawback is - the more layers, the longer Vegas (which I use) renders it.

Yes. It takes about 2 times as long with my computer. But the end result is clear to see tbh.
 

ParanoidAndroid

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For those that want to add film grain to The Hobbit, or Star Wars prequels or any ugly digital movie.

What you need is to download a film grain fragment (for example for free here:
https://pixeltoolspost.com/pages/free-film-grain )

Set this as a layer on top of your movie and set it to 'overlay'. Copy paste it untill it covers your entire project. Set a matte track on the Grain layer to Luma.

Make a duplicate later of the movie and put this ON TOP of the film grain layer. Adjust these settings on the duplicate layer: Make it black and white -> invert it -> raise exposure to 3.0 -> Lower peak brightness to 80 -> Raise shadows to 50 and whites to -80.

Put the movie layer on the bottom, the overlay in the middle and the duplicate on top.
Changing the values of the duplicate layer will change the manner in which the film grain affects light areas of the movie, feel free to experiment but keep in mind: Real film doesnt affect very bright light areas.
Couldn't quite work out how to apply this to Resolve but found another method to adjust grain via luminance-based mattes, gives a nicer textured look to the image rather than simple overlaying. Was not aware of the intricacies of grain behaviour before, many thanks for introducing the topic and providing links to the samples!
 

DonkeyKonga

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Couldn't quite work out how to apply this to Resolve but found another method to adjust grain via luminance-based mattes, gives a nicer textured look to the image rather than simple overlaying. Was not aware of the intricacies of grain behaviour before, many thanks for introducing the topic and providing links to the samples!

Glad to hear it worked out for you! Yes..the grain is something you cant quite put your finger on but when you see it you cannot un-see it. A friend of mine who is a professional cinematographer pointed out the flaws in my grain immediately which caused me to go on a grain investigation.
 

DonkeyKonga

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This is what happens when you use a low bitrate overlay. grain doesnt look quite right.
 
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Gieferg

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Well, at first glance ok, but closer inspection when displayed in full size reveals this grain doesn't really look like grain...

It looks familiar though, I had similar results with some overlays before (even in 1080). Not sure if that's overlay's fault or compression' effect while exporting.
 
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DonkeyKonga

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Well, at first glance ok, but closer inspection when displayed in full size reveals this grain doesn't really look like grain...

It looks familiar though, I had similar results with some overlays.
You have to keep in mind in motion it will be constantly moving, grain isn't stationary. But it's probably as good as it will get when it comes to fake grain. :)
 

Gieferg

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I would try it if it wasn't for the fact that I have zero experience with 4K encoding (also no 4K sources owned and too weak computer).
But I'd like to see an uncompressed frame taken straight from that overlay.
 

DonkeyKonga

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Yeah my computer cant handle it either a mate of mine will export with a 32core cpu lol
 

DonkeyKonga

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So turns out you were absolutely right. The bitrate for the overlay has to be CRAZY high. And i do mean CRAZY high. 200 MBPs lvl high.





Tweaked it further with a before and after. It's now perfectly grainy.
 
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Gieferg

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Yes! Now it looks really good.

I had similar issue with some overlays in 1080p and there was similar high (not THAT high though ;)) bitrate solution needed.
 

DonkeyKonga

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Yes! Now it looks really good.
I had similar issue with some overlays in 1080p and there was similar high (not THAT high though ;)) bitrate solution needed.
Yeah thanks for the heads up. I had to zoom in mega far to see what you meant but you are absolutely right. I work with a 1080p screen so it's hard to judge the actual grain lol.

This will be hell to render. <_<
 

hbenthow

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Couldn't quite work out how to apply this to Resolve but found another method to adjust grain via luminance-based mattes, gives a nicer textured look to the image rather than simple overlaying. Was not aware of the intricacies of grain behaviour before, many thanks for introducing the topic and providing links to the samples!

Do you know of any tutorial on how to do this? I have DaVinci Resolve and want to simulate grain as realistically as I can.

Also, do you know how good Resolve's built-in grain effect is? It is adjustable, and I believe it's possible to adjust how much it shows in various parts of the image (midtones, highlights, etc). I've heard that some Hollywood productions use Resolve's grain effect.
 

robulon

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Do you know of any tutorial on how to do this? I have DaVinci Resolve and want to simulate grain as realistically as I can.

Also, do you know how good Resolve's built-in grain effect is? It is adjustable, and I believe it's possible to adjust how much it shows in various parts of the image (midtones, highlights, etc). I've heard that some Hollywood productions use Resolve's grain effect.
I use Resolve's inbuilt grain effect and have found it very good. Mostly I’ve been using it to match grain levels between different sources to better intercut between them.

Its procedurally generated not a pre-made file. So you have a lot of options to tweak it. And the ability to dial in the amount across the various parts of the image is very useful. To mimic the way grain appears on actual film you’d want to increase it in the highlights. reduce it in the shadows and leave the midtone slider largely where it is. A lot of the sliders controls I don’t even touch. I start by choosing one of the Film Grain Presets based on how heavy a grain field I want, leaving the Composite Type on the default of Overlay. Then I just play about with the opacity till it feels right. As with anything its not an exact science and more a matter of trying different option to see what is most pleasing to your eye!
 

hbenthow

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To mimic the way grain appears on actual film you’d want to increase it in the highlights. reduce it in the shadows and leave the midtone slider largely where it is.

I thought real film is less grainy in the highlights than elsewhere?
 

robulon

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I thought real film is less grainy in the highlights than elsewhere?

I thought the exact the same thing for the longest time! But I’ve recently learned that this is more how video noise behaves, not grain on actual film stock.

Film grain is made out of the light sensitive silver halide crystals suspended in the film emulation. The crystals that get the most light turn into actual metallic silver during the developing process. Any unexposed crystals stay as halides and get washed away at the fixing stage.

So the parts of the image that got the most light (the highlights) produce the densest clusters of silver and therefore the most grain. The underexposed shadows have less grain as less of their halides got turned to silver during the photography.

Hope I explained that in a way that makes sense. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it! Here’s a video that talks about it:


Its actually to sell another 3rd party plugin for emulating grain, but it goes into the theory of grain structure at the start.
 

hbenthow

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I thought the exact the same thing for the longest time! But I’ve recently learned that this is more how video noise behaves, not grain on actual film stock.
I wonder if it depends on whether stock is positive or negative?

I found this comment by someone called danirosi_ on Reddit:

I do now use FilmConvert Nitrate because of the system it have to manage the amount of grain you add in your image. But after this I learned how to add grain layering like you do.

For me, the trick is simple and it is to add more grain into highlights than in the shadows. In negative film (natural grain) blacks were almost clean of grain because they were not exposed to the light. I do a mask on the matte mixer with the qualifier saying that matte (grain) should not affect anything from 0 to 60% luma and making a beautiful big gradient in that point.

I put you here a great tutorial I saw time ago with quite the same method I used (only for the grain)

 

robulon

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I wonder if it depends on whether stock is positive or negative?

I found this comment by someone called danirosi_ on Reddit:

Definitely sounds like that could be it! Since the vast majority of feature films are shot on negative stock, the look we should be trying to emulate is less grain in the shadows and more in the highlights.

I’ve been trying to see if I can observe this on some of my recent purchases now that I know to look out for it. But with DNR being slapped on a lot of titles these days it can be difficult to know what the original grain structure looked like anymore!
 

DonkeyKonga

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Definitely sounds like that could be it! Since the vast majority of feature films are shot on negative stock, the look we should be trying to emulate is less grain in the shadows and more in the highlights.

I’ve been trying to see if I can observe this on some of my recent purchases now that I know to look out for it. But with DNR being slapped on a lot of titles these days it can be difficult to know what the original grain structure looked like anymore!
I don't know why there is a reason for people to think MORE grain in highlights is the way to go, but there are plenty of cinema scans made, and they all show less grain in highlighted areas.
In fact, you can simply add more grain to highlights and trust your own eyes. It will look off.




grain.png


This is a sample of a scan of a 60GB 4k cinema reel from Empire strikes back. Note how the darker colors show more grain. The science behind it might say otherwise, but my eyes show me that highlights simply show barely any grain.
 

hbenthow

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Definitely sounds like that could be it! Since the vast majority of feature films are shot on negative stock, the look we should be trying to emulate is less grain in the shadows and more in the highlights.
Keep in mind that movies are projected on positive stock, though. Shot on negative, then printed onto positive.
 
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