Heaven's Gate: The 2nd Director's Cut by TM2YC

[TM2YC]

Saw this on Wikipedia...

In the 149-minute version of Heaven's Gate released in 1981, the following scenes are cut:[citation needed]

- Irvine's speech at the Harvard graduation
- The co-ed circle dancing immediately following graduation
- Averill beating up the brute enforcer (who beats up the immigrant in front of his wife and kids)
- Averill passing the beaten man's widow in the carriage, asking her how she's doing
- The spitting fight between the two immigrant landowners in the cockfight scene
- The entire roller skating dance scene
- Some female immigrants carrying a load up the hill
- Champion almost shooting the stock grower that insults Ella Watson
- The scene where Ella Watson first leaves Champion to return to Averill
- The introductory part of the scene where Averill reads the names on the "death list" (the edited version starts with John Bridges firing the gun in the air, to restore order)
- Averill weeping to Bridges that he "hates getting old", while looking at the old photo of himself and his girlfriend
- The immigrants being informed that Averill quit his post, and Watson warning them the stock growers have arrived
- The last five or so minutes of the second battle scene, including the footage of the character crushed under the wagon and the woman killing him in mercy
- That same woman killing herself, post-battle, and Bridges and Averill surveying the carnage

...except...

- The co-ed circle dancing immediately following graduation
- Averill beating up the brute enforcer (who beats up the immigrant in front of his wife and kids)
- The entire roller skating dance scene
- Champion almost shooting the stock grower that insults Ella Watson
- The scene where Ella Watson first leaves Champion to return to Averill
- The immigrants being informed that Averill quit his post
- The last five or so minutes of the second battle scene, including the footage of the character crushed under the wagon and the woman killing him in mercy

...are all still in the film and...

- Some female immigrants carrying a load up the hill

...doesn't appear in either cut? (To the best of my recollection). Unless by "carrying" they mean "Pushing", and by "Load" they mean "Plough", and by "Hill" they mean "Field" ;-). That is cut, yes.



If anybody is a Wikipedia editor, be my guest .

 

[TM2YC]

Yee-haw! After 6 months the first review of this project. I don't even care if it's negative, or positive! :lol:. Although it's broadly the latter. Thanks [MENTION=24905]rael74[/MENTION] for taking the time...

the dialogue between Jim and the Irish Station Master (i.e where the whole premise of the movie is first told) is clear although it felt a little like the dialogue was re-recorded in a studio?

Yes it almost certainly was. The dialogue in that scene was a little hard to understand in the long cut. So some of this was probably later "ADR"d for clarity (Unless they had a clearer alternate take).

the battle seemed much shorter somehow?

It is a lot shorter yes. I can't remember exactly how much but probably half of the shots were removed to increase the pace.

I missed the sepia toning on the roller skate sequence

The sepia tone in this scene (or in any scene) was not changed from the Blu-Ray transfer for this edit. Which would be the same transfer you saw in cinemas last year. Unless you saw a genuine old and rare print from the original aborted cinema showing. I have seen such and old print and it was more sepia toned (But this is probably down to the print having badly faded over the decades).

All in all a phenomenal achievement by yourself, but it is a better film that the original cut? I'm really not sure - could you make one I wonder?!

Thanks and I am/was working on my own cut. Details here. I'll get back to work on that at some point.

 

[rael74]

I've just read over your ideas for your own cut.

I agree totally about the swapping of the speeches at the start and your ending also sounds much better also.

I can only imagine the 'groans' in cinemas when the epilogue / boat scene first started.

I would love to see more made of the hustle-bustle of the initial Johnson County town.

I would consider removing the cut-ways to the girls in the initial Harvard scenes,
this put the focus more on the relationship between Averill and Billy.

I would also consider, trimming down the Averill returning to Ella / eating the pie (not her pie!) scene.
The same perhaps for when Ned invites Ella back to look at the (groan) wallpaper,
come to think of it, this entire 'three-way-love' sub-plot is what ruins the movie in my opinion
the main thrust should always be the trust of the Association and the peasants.
I'd cut the Ella rape scene also, also perhaps trim the 'reading of the names' scene.

Surely you must be down for some fanedit dedication of the year award?
I've only seen a couple of works from this site and although all have been impressive,
this one in particular has caught my eye.

Perhaps you should learn from Cimino / UA who should never have pulled the initial 3+ hour print
and never return to it?

I do however look forward to what you could create, as your skill and dedication is astonishing,
but watch out you don't turn into a Smile-era Brian Wilson in the process!:-o

 

[TM2YC]

^ Thanks for the ideas. I gave some thought to removing the love triangle a while back but I decided it wasn't possible. Too much of Nate and Jim's narrative is wrapped up in it (Virtually all of Nate's scenes relate to it). Plus we need some good honest human emotion in this vast sprawling beautiful mess of a movie. A thing I really liked about the 2ndDC over the first wasthat it toned down the bitterness between Nate and Jim. I'd like to take that further, they are old friends and all's fair in love 'n' war.

 

[Plissken1138]

Looks like Germans released the 2h34m cut as a bonus Blu-ray disc in this edition.

Disc Size: 49,122,050,288 bytes
Protection: AACS
BD-Java: No
Playlist: 00004.MPLS
Size: 36,183,644,160 bytes
Length: 2:34:01.250
Total Bitrate: 31.32 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 25997 kbps / 1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 3675 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Subtitle: German / 0.034 kbps
Subtitle: German / 14.994 kbps
Subtitle: English / 14.007 kbps

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

@"Plissken1138" - I edited out the file name from your post. That was clearly taken from a pirate site. I needn't remind you about our policy on piracy...

 

[Plissken1138]

@"Plissken1138" - I edited out the file name from your post. That was clearly taken from a pirate site. I needn't remind you about our policy on piracy...

I apologize, had no intentions toward piracy.

 

[TM2YC]

Looks like Germans released the 2h34m cut as a bonus Blu-ray disc in this edition.

I ordered it from amazon.de about 23-seconds after reading your post . Thanks for the tip!

As long as Google translate is correct, it does indeed appear to have what I call the "2nd Director's Cut" on a blu-ray bonus-disc, which is named "Recut" in this release. I'll be fascinated to find out what the transfer looks like. If they took it from a old print (like one I've seen) it could look like sh*t but if they've gone back and scanned the original-negative it could look superior to the Criterion "Director's Cut", as that was only sourced from a copy (at 2K).

Now I play the waiting game 'til it gets delivered (and I discover if I get stung for import duty).

This will be my 3rd blu-ray copy of HG and the 5th copy overall.

 

[TM2YC]

The German 3-disc Blu-Ray turned up today and from a quick scrub through to check several points of difference in the audio and the video, it does indeed seem to be a 1080p HD copy of the "2nd Director's Cut".

The audio is a 5.1 mix, which is quite an upgrade from the Mono mix on the old French DVD. There is an extra overture opening against black that the French DVD did not have. The only downside for some will be that this has only English audio and only German subtitles, unlike the French DVD which has 4 audio languages and 5 subtitle options. The disc is the full BD50 thankfully and the video looks more or less the same quality and grade as the Criterion release of the longer cut.  I look forward to watching this and with two radically different HD cuts of the movie, there is so much more fanedit potential.

I'll be pulling the links to my 720p fanedit recreation in the next few days because you can now legally buy a copy of this cut. So last chance if you want it.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Are there any plans to create your own version of the Heaven's Gate, now that both director's cuts are available in good quality?

 

[TM2YC]

Are there any plans to create your own version of the Heaven's Gate, now that both director's cuts are available in good quality?

I've made a few attempts but I seem to get a bit lost in all the footage and never finish them. My ideal version would be the faster paced 2nd cut as a base, with the same structure but the missing scenes put back in from the slower cut (and those scenes tightened up to match). Plus the extra John Hurt bit from the Premiere cut.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't blame you, it's a beast of a film! If you ever do get around to making something new I'll be sure to see it, find that the 216 minute version drags on a bit but the 149 minute one misses out a few things I'm fond of, am yet to try Soderberg's cut!