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Heaven's Gate: The 2nd Director's Cut by TM2YC

Brumous

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Looks nice. Good cover photo.

"Director's Cut" and "Butcher's Cut" have apostrophes.
 

TM2YC

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Brumous said:
Looks nice. Good cover photo.

"Director's Cut" and "Butcher's Cut" have apostrophes.

Well spotted, that particular font doesn't have apostrophes (The ones I wrote just showed up as a blank spaces :x). I'll have to manually add them from another font :).
 

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Thanks all ^ :).

Rendering 'The Butcher's Cut' DVD now.
 

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The most significant difference between the 1st/3rd Director's cut and the 2nd DC is Kris Kristofferson's voiceover. It appears only in the second cut. Here is part of it in my new HD version...


(Password: fanedit.org)

- Soundtrack from 2nd DC French DVD
- Video from the Criterion Blu-Ray
- Includes two alternate shots from the 2nd DC (Colour graded as close as I can get them to the BR footage)
- One shot now plays in reverse and works much more strongly because of it IMO
 

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Several versions out there, a bit confusing. I tidied up the Wikipedia entry. When you say 3rd DC you mean soderbergh?

What version do you like? Would you create something different now you're more intimately familiar with the choices made in various edits?
 

Brumous

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GregAlex said:
Several versions out there, a bit confusing. I tidied up the Wikipedia entry. When you say 3rd DC you mean soderbergh?

No, he means the Cimino edit the blu ray is based on. It has tiny differences from the 1st director's cut like the one in this post.
 

TM2YC

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GregAlex said:
Several versions out there, a bit confusing. I tidied up the Wikipedia entry. When you say 3rd DC you mean soderbergh?

For clarity, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Director's cut terms are just my own to try and make sense of it. e.g.

1st Director's Cut = The original 216 minute version that Cimino rushed to complete for the release date in November 1980. After very poor reviews and it was pulled from Cinemas in the US after a week. This was at the request of Cimino himself and not imposed by the studio. This was widely released on DVD for decades and I saw a very poor quality print of this a few years back. I don't actually own this cut as it's almost exactly the same as the Blu-Ray.

2nd Director's Cut = In April 1981 after almost a further 6 months spent working on improving, tightening, recutting and remixing the film, Cimino released this 149 minute cut (67 minutes shorter and with many alternate angles, takes and sound elements). Sadly the poor reputation of the first cut meant that the critics and the public largely ignored this version and it sank without trace. I have the low quality French 'La Porte Du Paradis' DVD which is the only release this cut has ever had and the unique elements will have to sourced from that DVD.

3rd Director's Cut = Digital restoration of the film done in 2012. Cimino elected to restore the 216 minute version despite having done away with this cut in 1981. For some reason he removed a single shot from it... one second of John Hurt realing after Sam Waterston slaps him. So the 1st and 3rd Director's Cuts are more or less the same cut (There are a few more subtle differnces). The liner notes for the Criterion Blu-Ray seemed designed to give the false impression that this was the "definitive" cut of Heaven's Gate. In fact Cimino had so little regard for it in 1981 that he effectively destroyed the original negative to make the 2nd Director's Cut. The Blu-Ray is therefore sourced not from the O-Neg but from the colour seperation masters.

There was also a 5.5 hour Workprint (Never released), a 2005 recut by MGM that was screened once and then shelved and of course Soderbergh's 'The Butcher's Cut'. Hope that's a little clearer.

GregAlex said:
What version do you like? Would you create something different now you're more intimately familiar with the choices made in various edits?

I probably prefer Soderbergh's cut but then again I've barely watched the 2nd DC as it's not a nice experience to watch it on the poor quality DVD (After seeing the glorious Blu-Ray transfer). So part of why I want to restore the 2nd DC to as good as possible is so I myself can watch it properly for the first time.

I've tried a few times to cut my own version without success. Maybe after finishing the two current cuts I'll be familiar enough with the material to know what I'd want in my version.
 

GregAlex

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Thanks for that. Wikipedia had the right information but was a little convoluted, and your earlier descriptions helped me write a quick summary. Looks like I got it right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(film)#Versions_of_the_film

I'm finding there are several films now that I would never have considered watching, but have great interest in the Fix, and the purchased rule holds me back. But I think there are a few ways of staying true to respecting this ... but a discussion for another thread..
 

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Hit the 30 minute mark on the 2nd DC restoration... just 119 more minutes left to edit! ;-)

A couple more things I've noticed... the 2nd DC seems to have none of the titlecards that appear in the 1st DC. I guess since the narrative is much clearer and straghtforward Cimino felt they were no longer needed? Sadly that means I'm having to source those beautiful establishing shots from the DVD. Also two shots have been cropped tighter to focus the viewers eye a little more.

By the way, I'm planning to release the two cuts (2nd DC and The Butcher's Cut) as a two-DVD/double-mp4 set. But sometimes I wonder if it would be better to release them seperately. Thoughts?
 

TM2YC

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Here is the first 38 minutes of the "lost" 2nd Director's Cut...


(Password: fanedit.org)

Some of the colour grading of the new shots needs more work but other than that this is the finished article. I'm very excited by this cut so far, this 2nd cut of 'Heaven's Gate' by Cimino feels like a proper movie and not the series of unedited rushes that his 1st "official release" cut feels like.

Spent seemingly days working on the cutlist for this (From now on I'll update it cut by cut)...

(LPDP = 'La Porte Du Paradis' French DVD of the 2nd DC)

- I've made no sound edits, Cimino made all of those. Complete 2nd DC soundmix sourced from LPDP
- I haven't noted trims where it was less than 3 frames as I made far too many to mention. Most were just 1 frame where Cimino omited the original 1st DC splice
- Re-graded all shots from LPDP to match BR footage as closely as possible (Also sharpened and grain added)

00.00.00 - Added FE.org title
00.00.12 - Added TM2YC title
00.00.24 - Added 3 paragraphs describing the 2nd DC with music from the soundtrack
00.01.20 - Removed Criterion title
00.01.31 - Replaced Blu-Ray UA title with 1981 UA title from LPDP
00.04.37 - Replaced opening Harvard shot with textless from LPDP
00.06.24 - Removed long tracking shot of the marching band
00.06.26 - Shortneed shot of girls waving
00.06.34 - Removed shot of students marching and one of Jim running
00.07.59 - Shortened shot of students listening
00.08.04 - Added 4 shots of Jim gazing around and The Reverend talking from LPDP
00.08.14 - Removed shot of Billy laughing
00.08.17 - Removed 4 shots from The Reverend's speech
00.08.26 - Added 4 shots of Jim gazing around and The Reverend talking from LPDP
00.08.36 - Removed 6 shots of Jim, Billy and The Beautiful Girl
00.08.48 - Added 2 shots of Jim and The Beautiful Girl from LPDP
00.09.04 - Shortned the sequence of Billy fooling around
00.09.08 - Added shot of Jim laughing from LPDP
00.09.26 - Removed 2 shots of The Reverend being applauded
00.09.32 - Replaced shot of The Reverend with a shot of two teachers yawning from LPDP
00.09.35 - Shortened shot of The Reverend talking
00.09.52 - Moved shot of The Beautiful Girl clapping to middle of the shot of Billy prentending not to hear
00.09.53 - Removed shot of students cheering
00.09.58 - Added 2 shots of The Beautiful Girl smiling at Jim from LPDP
00.10.02 - Shortened shot of Billy approaching the podium
00.10.05 - Removed all of Billy's 4 minute speech to the students
00.14.01 - Brought forward Billy being punched
00.14.03 - Removed 2 shots of the scrum
00.14.09 - Removed 3 shots of the scrum
00.14.12 - Removed 3 shots of the scrum and shortened Jim climbing
00.14.14 - Shortened shot of Billy giving Jim a leg up
00.14.16 - Cut shot of Billy giving Jim a leg up in two
00.14.17 - Removed 3 shots of Billy being crushed in the scrum
00.14.27 - Removed shot of Jim swinging on the tree
00.15.54 - Last shot of The Beautiful Girl played in reverse
00.16.26 - Replaced shot of people on train roof with tex free one from LPDP
00.16.39 - Added shot of Jim looking out the window from LPDP
00.16.44 - Shortened shot of train by a third from the start and from the end
00.17.12 - Shortened pan in on the wood cabin
00.18.19 - Removed 2 shots of Nate approaching Kovac
00.18.25 - Shortened shot of Kovac calling to Nate
00.18.30 - Shortened shot of Nate raising his gun
00.18.33 - Shortened shot of Kovac calling to Nate
00.18.48 - Shortened shot of wife cradling Kovac's body
00.18.54 - Shortened shot of wife fetching sheet
00.18.57 - Shortened long shot of wife crying and removed shot of Nate riding across a stream
00.18.57 - Replaced short shot of cattle being lassoed with longer angle from LPDP
00.19.18 - Brought forward sequence of Nate confronting The Married Man
00.19.33 - Shortened shot of Nate looking at The Married Man
00.19.40 - Shortened shot of Nate shaking his head
00.19.44 - Shortened shot of The Married Man lowering his pistol
00.19.46 - Shortened shot of Nate staring
00.19.51 - Added much longer shot of The Married Man talking from LPDP
00.19.55 - Shortened shot of Nate staring
00.20.21 - Added 4 shots of Nate dismounting and his friend arriving from LPDP
00.20.44 - Removed 5 shots of Nate and his friend watching the fields being plowed and brought Nate punching his friend forward
00.21.40 - Shortened shot of Nate friend mounting his horse
00.22.58 - Removed 2 very long shots of the immigrant march
00.23.09 - Drastically shortened wide pan of the march by almost 3 quarters
00.23.14 - Shortened shot of mother walking and brought scene of Nate visiting Ella forward
00.23.21 - Pushed back Nate arriving 'til after Ella looks for him and shortened Ella watching
00.23.32 - Shortened Nate's arrival, removed shot of Jim's carriage and added shot of Ella smoking from LPDP
00.23.35 - Removed shot of Ella glancing back
00.23.37 - Added another shot of Ella smoking from LPDP
00.23.41 - Pushed back 2nd half of Nate's arrival and shortened it
00.23.47 - Shortened 2nd shot of Ella glancing back
00.23.59 - Added shortened cutaway to music box over Nate walking through the brothel
00.24.10 - Removed 2 shots of Ella and Nate talking
00.26.04 - Removed 2 shots of Ella and Nate talking
00.26.16 - Removed 10 shots of Ella and Nate talking
00.26.27 - Added shot of Ella kissing Nate's hand
00.26.32 - Added textless shot of train arriving in Casper from LPDP
00.26.49 - Shortened shot of Cully walking through the station
00.27.24 - Added shot of Jim getting dressed from LPDP
00.27.28 - Removed 8 shots of the trains arrival and Jim drinking
00.27.34 - Shortened shot of immigrants climbing down
00.27.38 - Shortened shot of Jim walking through the carriage
00.28.31 - Shortened shot of Jim and Cully talking
00.28.34 - Removed 7 shots of Jim and Cully talking and added shot of immigrants from LPDP
00.28.42 - Shortened shot of Jim and Cully talking
00.29.02 - Shortened shot of Jim and Cully talking
00.29.07 - Added shot of immigrants from LPDP
00.29.16 - Removed Jim and Cully picking up the horse and shortened shot of Jim and Cully walking
00.29.33 - Added shot of immigrants from LPDP
00.29.40 - Removed part of the walk where Jim gives Cully money
00.29.48 - Drastically shortened both ends of the shot of Cully taking care of the carriage
00.29.55 - Removed 2 shots of Cully chasing after Jim and replaced by shot of Jim crossing the tracks from LPDP
00.29.58 - Shortened both ends of the wide shot of Casper
00.30.17 - Removed shot of Jim walking through the crowd
00.30.24 - Shortened 2 shots of Jim walking through the crowd
00.30.32 - Removed 2 shots of the man being beaten to death
00.30.35 - Added shot of immigrants waiting on platform from LPDP
00.30.39 - Cropped shot of Jim outside shop slightly to match LPDP framing
00.30.44 - Cropped shot of Jim outside shop slightly to match LPDP framing
00.31.02 - Shortened shot of Jim walking through the shop
00.31.31 - Shortened shot of man trying jacket and removed shot of Jim
00.31.38 - Removed shot of Jim
00.31.55 - Shortened shot of Jim
00.32.04 - Shortened and removed 3 shots of Jim buying supplies and added a shot of the clark from LPDP
00.32.07 - Added shot of lady sewing from LPDP
00.32.08 - Added 2 longer shots of Jim buying supplies from LPDP
00.32.27 - Shortened shot of Jim looking at paper and added longer shot of the paper from LPDP
00.32.30 - Shortened shot of Jim looking at the beating
00.32.34 - Shortened 2 shots of Jim still looking and of the beating
00.32.35 - Drastically shortened shot of Jim still looking
00.33.18 - Removed shot of Jim bending down
00.33.19 - Removed 2 shots of Jim standing up and shortened a 3rd
00.33.26 - Shortened both ends of shot of lady shouting at thug
00.33.31 - Removed 2 shots of the lady spitting, 1 of Cully calling and shortened Jim's walk back
00.33.45 - Shortened shot of Cully
00.33.50 - Added shot of Cully climbing down from LPDP
00.33.54 - Removed 5 shots of Jim and Cully talking
00.33.58 - Shortened shot of Jim and Cully and cropped plus pan'n'scanned a shot of Cully to match LPDP framing
00.34.03 - Shortened shot of Cully
00.34.06 - Removed the 3 final shots from Casper sequence
00.34.06 - Added longer shot of the Butler from LPDP
00.34.13 - Removed 3 shots of the Butler and shortened a 4th
00.35.05 - Removed shot of Billy drinking
00.35.10 - Removed shot of Canton looking round
00.35.31 - Shortened shot of ladies walking in the garden
00.35.34 - Shortened long shot of Association
00.35.53 - Pushed back shot of Canton looking round so it now plays over Billy talking
00.35.56 - Removed part of the shot of Billy talking
00.36.20 - Shortened shot of Billy turning round
00.36.35 - Added 4 shots of Billy and Canton's argument from LPDP
00.37.33 - Removed shot of Billy looking at Canton
00.37.57 - Shortened both ends of the shot of Billy walking out and up the stairs
00.38.05 - Added 2 shots of Canton smiling and Billy seeing Jim from LPDP

It's difficult to say given the ammount of cuts (Average of one cut every 18 seconds), rearranged scenes and added footage but I'd guess there is about 15 minutes cut so far in that video ^ with only one full 4 minute scene removed. The other 11 minutes are all made from tiny trims that Cimino made to up the pace.

Act one down, 3 more acts to go!
 

TM2YC

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I've decided to release the two cuts I'm working on seperately afterall. Expect the first very soon :). Here are the two covers/posters (Click to see full res versions)...





What else would you release a "Butcher's Cut" in other than Butcher's paper? ;-)

In other news the 2ndDC is a third of the way in, with over 180 major cuts already. I hadn't realised just how different this version really is. Such a shame that Cimino still has the negative in a vault somewhere badly needing rescuing and restored.
 

TM2YC

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Neglify said:
AWESOME Butcher Cover!

Thanks and here is the finished DVD cover for it (Couple of tweaks to the front too)...



(^ Click to see full size image)

Really pleased with the results. I think it's one of my favourite covers I've done... excluding 'Robots Vs Kung-Fu' of course ;-). For the first time ever I actually bothered my arse to do a Disc label (Glad I did)...

14743875105_1422499c2a.jpg
 

Gatos

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*Note to self: Farm out all of my future fanedit DVD Cover Art to [MENTION=24292]TM2YC[/MENTION]!*
 

TM2YC

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Moving this to inactive for a while while I work on other things. I'll get to this sooner rather than later though :).
 
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