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HD Rebuild: The Godfather FULL 1-3 Chronological Edit MAX LENGTH

Wraith

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ANALYSIS:

So, what follows is a tortuous analysis of all versions of The Godfather Trilogy.

I'll cut to the chase, then I'll drill down on the detail (a spreadsheet, calculator or pen and paper may be required :) )

FILM 1: The Godfather: Don Vito's Opus - 280 min
FILM 2: The Godfather: Micahel's Opus - 322 min

Run Times (RT) are generally to the nearest half minute (though I did do this to the second).

I should point out some release history points first:
The Godfather Part 3 Theatrical has never been available on DVD or Blu Ray. The first release was the Director's cut (DC), but not billed as such. The only release of the theatrical version of Part 3 on home video was as part of the VHS TRILOGY release. This confirms a RT 162min, DC 170 min, Coda 157.5 min, La Fine 171.75 min.

So, lets dive in....

HEADLINE: RAW VERSIONS IN FULL
MOVIE THEATRICAL / EXTENEDED
The Godfather 177.25 min / 202.5 min
The Godfather Part 2 202 min / 228 min
The Godfather Part 3 162 min / 170 min

CHRONOLOGICAL VERSION IN FULL (Saga, Epic and Novel for TV were made up of Part 1 & 2 only)
MOVIE
SAGA (VHS) 386 min
EPIC (VHS/Laserdisc) 434 min
TRILOGY (VHS) 588 min
A NOVEL for TV 436 min
AMC 580.25 min
WRAITH 602 min

So thus far, the longest version is TRILOGY.

Now let's deconstruct and look at them without opening and closing credits. This will give us what I call CORE run times.

CORE RUN TIMES
MOVIE THEATRICAL / EXTENEDED
The Godfather 171.5 min / 196.5 min
The Godfather Part 2 195.5 min / 221 min
The Godfather Part 3 153.5 min / 161.5 min
SAGA (VHS) 380 min
EPIC (VHS/Laserdisc) 426 min
TRILOGY (VHS) 578 min
A NOVEL for TV 426 min
AMC 559.5 min (an astonishing 21.5 min of opening and closing credits and montages and shorter than Trilogy)
WRAITH 582 min

Now that we have CORE run times, I need to deconstruct this and express them as SECTIONS, Young VIto, Don Vito and Michael run times in order to be able to compare the chronological edits with the theatrical ones.... I ignore Part 3 for this section, since it just bolts on. SAGA was an edit down of EPIC to fit VHS, so we will also ignore that to keep it digestible.

SECTION RUN TIMES (no credits) Theatrical/Extended for Each in mins excluding GF Part 3

MOVIE YOUNG VITO / DON VITO / MICHAEL
The Godfather --- / 171.5/196.5 / ---
The Godfather Part 2 56.5/73 / --- / 137/149
EPIC (VHS/Laserdisc) 62 / 186.5 / 149
TRILOGY (VHS) 61 / 195 / 148
A NOVEL for TV 61 / 171.5 / 139
AMC 61 / 185 / 1
FILM 1 73 / 198 / 1
FILM 2 --- / --- / 148

Thus the longest possible CORE versions to create a Chronological edit are as follows:
FROM THEATRICAL SOURCES: 520.5 min
FROM EXTENDED SOURCES: 579 min
AMC CORE RUN TIME: 550 min ( I already posted videos of what was removed)
WRAITHS EDITS CORE: 582 min

I do also have the breakdown for opening, closing credits and montages from AMC episodes...but it is self evident from above and not that vital. One has to tame the OCD.

I'll be back with a summary of changes for Films 1 and 2, explain where the extra core 3 mins came from and that's about it...

10 hours and 2 mins woohoo!

E.&.O.E.
 
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asterixsmeagol

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PONDERINGS:

Does anyone else get annoyed when end credits on television are sped up, truncated, or randomly chopped?

Do you get more annoyed when the music in the modified end credits just randomly fades out to the studio logo?
To be honest, I never watch the credits on TV shows.
 

sgp1428

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A very detailed breakdown..... Interesting to see the AMC version is actually shorter than the Trilogy but I guess it was the HD widescreen footage that made the AMC version sparkle a little...
 

Wraith

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The Godfather: Magnum Opus
CHANGES LIST


FILM 1: Don Vito's Opus
Classic 1970s Parmaount Logo HD
Cleaned and new STABLE opening titles
New opening credit roll

TRANSITIONS:
Opening scene does not have the huge captions back story. New captions establish date and place, and that it is the funeral of Antonio Andolini.
Very Young Vito to DeNiro Vito, music re positioned, crossfade re-timed, and reframed for correct alignment of captions
Don Fanucci to Vito at Apartment. Scene brought forward, shots re-sequenced for better progression, new establishing shot of apartment
Newly made jump cut with synced audio as car almost hits Clemenza cutting to Train in Sicily
Newly timed fade out of Young Vito and baby Michael on train
Improved jump cut audio transition of Miami train
New Vegas transition shots. Two new shots added to better time cross fade, replaced Patti Page marquee with a Sinatra marquee from 1960s HD material. This removes a clumsy crossfade with trees and still frames in the source material.
Newly made crossfade from Michael and Kay speaking to Funeral (originally segeued to or from young Vito)

OTHER CHANGES
Longer shot of Young Vito walking away after being offered food
Additional shot in cafe Clemenza and Young Vito discussing carpet
Added musical sting that introduces jaunty carpet heist music
Moved one scene to act as a spacer when Clemenza is selling his dresses
Additional shots of Woltz at studio during gifting
Additional compound establishing shot
Additional looping of actor during Connies argument (which in some versions is ONLY the Italian dialogue) has been removed.
Re-made all subtitles which do not match (including the signing at the party) and expanded Sollozzo with Michael subtitles where Italian is not translated
Added shot of Vito in bed after boys visit
Added extended shot of Tom kissing his wife
Intermission card of 10 secs added after Cannoli scene (2h 31m)
Added 3 shots to closing scene from Part II to make moment more dramatic and add to Kay's distancing from Michael with a slow zoom out
New end credit roll composed of 19 travelling crop mattes with re-sequenced music from credit rolls of Part 1 and Part 2

Film 2: Michael's Opus
Classic 1970s Parmaount Logo HD
Cleaned and new STABLE opening titles
New opening credit roll consistent with Part II opening of hand kiss

TRANSITIONS
New musical segue to Michael on Pier segueing newly to the Communion. Lake Tahoe 1957 caption added to replace the "His Grandson.." caption.
15 Secs restored to the Senate hearings using the McGurk effect

CHANGES and REFINEMENTS:
Moved assassination up the running order by 3 scenes
Moved Michael/ Anthony bed scene
Rebuilt full ambient audio when Michael goes to bed
Replaced music using pre Part II crossfade music to play through the transition
Re purposed two establishing shots of night party
Removed duplicated nighttime party shot of boat on lake
Intermission card of 10 secs added after the end of Part II scene (2h 32m). Audio replaced to facilitate a non-musical fadeout.
New establishing shot of Vatican added and 1 min restored to Cardinal. Michael discussion
All removed material removed from Coda (13 minutes in total) is restored. All additional Coda shots included.
Opening montage for Part 3 and original more dramatic ending, restore.
3 secs removed for better continuity in the climax.
All Subtitles replaced for Part 3 and expanded where Italian was not transalated.
17 Traveling crop mattes used to create new end titles roll from Part 2 and Part 3 with music re-ordered from both films end credit rolls to match timing.

That's more or less it. I will add anything missing on final IFDB page.

Now the Artwork beckons....

Ciao!
 

Wraith

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A very detailed breakdown..... Interesting to see the AMC version is actually shorter than the Trilogy but I guess it was the HD widescreen footage that made the AMC version sparkle a little...
It was very carefully trimmed to be the least noticeable, but as you will have read earlier (or if you watch the videos I posted of the actual missing stuff), it does change the impact or how some scenes feel....Anyway, ITS ALL BACK IN NOW!!!!
 

sgp1428

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^ For sure..... I've watched the videos and read your comments carefully and with great interest. Your attention to detail as mentioned earlier is second to none and I fully appreciate all the missing stuff being added back in.

Also to get a version that works out at 10 Hours plus.. A great little milestone......
 

Wraith

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^ For sure..... I've watched the videos and read your comments carefully and with great interest. Your attention to detail as mentioned earlier is second to none and I fully appreciate all the missing stuff being added back in.

Also to get a version that works out at 10 Hours plus.. A great little milestone......
Thanks...just checked my run time above...582min, core..602 min full....I had a typo (482 instead of 582)....DOH!
 

Wraith

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BLU RAY covers done.

Disc art tomorrow...
 

Wraith

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END OF THE ROAD:

Film 2 Locked and Rendered.

Film 1, re-rendering minor polish

Artwork - Completed, including revisions to La Fine for consistency.
Art contemplates a two BD 50GB disc burn, so two covers, two discs. I will do a single cover for two discs as well. A single disc burn, even if 50 gbp for 10 hours of material is not possible without significantly impairing the quality.

ADENDUM.

I should point out that the material for Part 3 in FILM 2 has been downmixed to 2ch stereo for sonic consistency. A 5.1 surround mix for Part 3 does exist in my La Fine edit, which will follow The Magnum Opus (as I have collectively called Films 1 & 2).

The next few days will be rendering at 40 mbs (which yield almost 60 GB files for down conversion to MP4 at 6000 mbs. I will then render Film 1 at 35 Mbps, and film 2 at somewhere between 25 and 30 mbs for those that want a blu ray. Film 2 is exceeding 50 GB at anything over 35 mbps and that is on a H264 codex. I don't like H265 and pure MT2S yields huge files at anything over 30 mbps.

I contemplated splitting these at the interval for a 4 disc set, but that kind of defeats the objective and test renders and viewing on a 60 inch screen look just fine on a 1 disc render.

That's it.

Ciao!
 

sgp1428

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Hey Wraith, nice work on getting this to completion. Thanks also for all the details along the way, it's been a interesting and fun journey and I look forward to giving The Magnum Opus a spin..... ( I'll be keeping a eye out for your La Fine edit as well)

Cheers.
 

Wraith

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Thanks....Having decided to us La Fine as is in the end, due to the original Part 3 Blu Ray being too muted and lacking the detail of Parts 1& 2, La Fine is basically the same as the material in Film 2 other than the opening credits. The rest is the same and again, a different end credit roll. La Fine is really for those that want Parts 1-3 as made (which La Fine effectively is since I reversed all the changes from Coda, kept the new stuff and the better mastering and inevitable subtitles re-do).
 
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Wraith

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BONUS:

These scenes remain missing from the Magnum Opus in HD....They were known to have been added to the USA network version during its Godfather trilogy and Saga showings in the late 1990s: I have never seen them.
  • Don Altobello hands Michael and Constance an expensive check for the Vito Corleone Foundation, and Altobello declares lifetime peace between the two familes. All three embrace each other.
  • A brief exchange between B.J and the Archbishop is seen during the party sequence. The Archbishop snaps softly at B.J "We had a deal!" B.J half-chuckles and says "Of course, how do you think I got all this grey hair." This scene hints early on the wrongdoings of the Archbishop, which isn't revealed until later in the theatrical version. This proves that the opening Vatican scene, should be where it now is (as in Coda too)...though Coda retains the establishing shot of St Patricks in NY, which I have fixed.
This scene, from The Epic, I do have, but as I said, it is not in HD and to my knowledge never been aired.
  • Kay drives to the gate to leave the compound, she is stopped by the guards and Tom comes out to take her back in.
I will post it tomorrow for your viewing curiosity.

Whenever any of these films air, I record them in HD, in the vain hope they turn up by accident.

If ANYONE ever is able to source ANY these in HD, let me know...I'll drop 'em right in for Version 2!!!!!!!!!!!!

"See you next Wednesday"
 

Wraith

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ARTWORK:
Completed

In keeping with most of my artwork, this is fairly clean and simple.

There will be art as follows, all in a consistent design in case people want lots of discs.

- Single Disc version BD cover for both films
- Dual Disc single cover for single case with both discs Magnum Opus Edition
- La Fine cover in the same design
- 6 Disc Cover for anyone (ME) wanting to house the following in one of those slim 5 disc cases (I love those...great for shelf compression, as are those thin single and double ones too):
  • The Godfather: Don Vito's Opus
  • The Godfather: Michael's Opus
  • The Godfather: La Fine
  • The Godfather: Extended by Hal_over_9000
  • The Godfather Part II: Extended by Hal_over_9000
  • The Godfather Trilogy 1901-1980 VHS transfer
All disc art matches and will be numbered 1-6 per the above 6 disc set.

I will load up the artwork and post a link for your viewing pleasure.

PHEW....almost there.

NEXT:

Massive kudos to these people again for a great wealth of detailed info. I may need to let them know of some of my findings.
Have a look around, especially on the versions and the Laser Discs (which are unique but in VASELINE-VISION).

RENDER ROOM:

All renders completed and MP4 conversions.
I will not be rendering a blu Ray at this time but will make the MT2S file available at 23.97 fps for anyone to burn if they choose.

Next.....SUBMISSION

"resistance is futile"
 

Wraith

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ADENDUM:

NEXT - WATCH THEM...I Must....
 
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Wraith

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ARTWORK:

Here is the artwork, so far....(font creation is fun, but tedious)

REVISED in later post

....well, what did you expect, "Cock-er-roach"

"say hello to the bad guy"
 
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Wraith

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RENDERS:

Managed to get Film 2 down to 48.5 GB. The MP4 was rendered from a higher bit rat render that was 58 GB.

MP4s were both derived from 40 mbps masters as was La Fine.
Film 1 : 12.5 GB
Film 2 : 14.5 GB
La Fine: 7.5 GB

MT2S files are 35mpbs for FILM 1 and 22mbps for FILM 2. Both ar 48.5 GB as is La Fine.

"Kirk Out"
 

Wraith

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"Come in landing party..."

Ahh...the best laid plans of mice and men.

There is no substitute for watching your work PROPERLY on a big screen, not a 2K monitor...the joy of how it all flows beautifully as you planned....UNTIL, you hit the first error!!!!!

More on that Mañana

...RE-OPEN FILE FILM 1......

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"
 
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Wraith

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..three errors WTF !
I test rendered everything....
 

Wraith

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UPDATE:

Problems resolved and re-rendered.

What is interesting is that there is no substitute for a proper viewing. When you edit a section, render and view in isolation, not only can you miss an error upstream or down stream from that section, you also miss the pacing and atmosphere of the progression of the narrative. So, for instance, a couple of corssfades were a tad quick... another had a fade thru black that also needed to be longer.

In this case, I had a 37 second segment repeated as Clemenza and Vito drink coffee. Interestingly, that scene has a Pianola in the background in the chrnological versions but no pianola in the Theatrical cut. IN order to better facilitate the pianola music sting I added from the CD Score, I cross fade the audio from the AMC version to the Theatrical, thus simulating the pianola has stopped, and then we get the music cue and cut to the street. For some reason, that segment (which I had deleted since my test render was correct) re-appeared. I can only assume I save to the wrong file name and did not notice.

Everything else seems ok.

Back to submission and upload... and a VIDEO bonus later with that Kay missing scene AND how I did the 4 version comparison.

Ciao
 
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