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HD Rebuild: The Godfather FULL 1-3 Chronological Edit MAX LENGTH

Wraith

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asterixsmeagol said:
For a good example of cutting down shots without losing anything, check out @"TM2YC"'s Blade Runner 2049: Aerodynamik.

Agree, it is very good...watched it when it came out, burnt to BD and stuffed in a proper case: Highly recommend, but I won't be doin the same to Lawrence of Arabia.

Another approach is Ranger613's version of Ben Hur: Ben-Hur: Prince of Jerusalem - Fanedit.org
This removes ALL the Christ material and has the unexpected benefit of not just being an hour shorter, but it lets Charlton Heston's performance shine. I had not appreciated how good he is in it UNTIL THIS VERSION. he's not just good, it's an outstanding performance which here is not blighted by the highly intrusive second narrative. (check out my review for it).

If they had done that for Godfather Part 2, it would have been just Michael's material: Ponder that?
 

Wraith

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UPDATED RUMINATIONS/RANTINGS

Today I decided to check for Alternate takes on that last section. None.
The I decided to check out the impact of some of those AMC Trims and their impact when they are within a scene.

Whomever was doing the snipping on this appears to have had a hardon for trimming scenes with Michael and Freddo. There are huge swathes of material with other people that could easily have had such trims applied, but NOPE, most are Michael Freddo snips. And this has a profound effect on their interactions. I'll pick just one as an example:
SPOLIER FREE

We are near the end of the movie, It's snowing outside, They are back from Cuba...and they sit down for a chat...you  KNOW THE SCENE.... When they sit, Michael asks "is there anything you can tell me"  long pause, Freddo is slumped, and he "doesn't have much to say" and tells Mike they kept him in the dark.

Now, the trim in question, is the removal of "they kept me in the dark". Removing this makes Freddo appear more belligerent which alters the tone of what follows. Quite key at this point in the proceedings.

Similarly, Kays line about their marriage being an abortion, is removed, despite the other refs about abortion; so it's not the word that is the issue...it's a strange one to remove. Kay use the word 3 times. They could easily have kept the marriage ref in and removed one of the other two instances ....that tells me that this was a rushed job since if you told me to remove one instance of the word, it would be the second one, in order to retain Kay making the comparison to their marriage; that instance is additive to the first utterance. The second utterance is repetitive to the first and can be removed without less impact. I mocked it up in the edit suite and it works.

Oh, go on, one more. When Tom Hagen walks up to the house, he pauses and looks at Freddo with Michael's son preparing to fish. Just 7secs, two shots. I know remove it, no one is talking...(remember the rules I suggested were being used to trim this)...it ticks the NO SPEAKING box, so we can remove it coz it has no impact. WRONG! 

THEN, a few moments later A UNIQUE 5 sec shot of a cab outside the house prior to Connie walking in. It's not in any other version (but will be in this re-build). AMC could have removed THAT, kept the abortion dialogue and/or the 7 sec Hagen looks at Freddo and Mike's son IN....See what I mean by rushed. That Cab does not have any narrative impact....and yet in the scene that follows the CAB, more micro trims to the scene where Michael closes the door...4 secs in total. I mean, they took out 16 frames of Connie gazing at Kay. Mercifully, the scene that follow ON THE LAKE (yup, that one) is untouched, frame perfect shot for shot Until the last shot where they remove 7 frames of Michael at the window....and the 4 sec from THE BATH (spoiler free) plus Connie's close up in the last scene and 4 frames of Sonny. I MEAN "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE"....I'll tell you. The edit guy was on a schedule, editing linear and he was below the target he had to hit the numbers to make room for those pesky ads. He/she probably had never even seen these movies. I'm sure there are people out there who when they see the CAB would shout...THAT'S NEW. So here we are, a few minutes from the end of the movie and this person/s snip a few more SILENT bits...you see, the rules are being adhered to that I proposed. Well...I say drop the cab and give me back those frames from Michael and Connie and the 4 secs in the bath.

AHHHHHHHH!

Anyway, glad I did the close inspection or I would have missed the CAB shot.

THE PROSECUTION RESTS ITS CASE....(fade to black)

Ciao

W

OPEN QUESTION
You all having fun reading this tripe?

TRIM VIDEO TO COME...It is bizarre (and fair journalistic comment under the first amendment so we shall see how YouTube react to it getting posted..."oooo It contains Copyrighted material".
BITE ME you algorithm driven cavemen
 

Wraith

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AMC TRIMS 1st of 3 - Young Vito

Here are the 25 trims AMC made to the first 85 min of The Novel for Television.


The video is age restricted and can only be viewed with this link. It is not publicly posted.

At this point, I had not quite noticed the pattern of rules driving the trims. Interestingly, they could have removed more from this part of the movie and thus kept in material that was removed later.

Part 2 tomorrow.
 

Wraith

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AMC TRIMS 2nd of 3 - Vito (from the Godfather Part I section of the Novel for Television):

This video opens with a side by side comparison of the new Las Vegas establishing shot I propose to use.
It also contains (at 10m02sec) a comparison of alternate takes used for one shot and another shot that is unique to the Theatrical versions . These are annotated.
There are a further 81 AMC trims, 11 mins worth covering 200 mins of material from The Godfather Part I.
Total trims so far 106, 15 min.

You will begin to see how some of these trims are become increasingly questionable given the many other areas that could have been trimmed but were not.

This video CONTAINS SPOILERS, violence and nudity (obscured by averaging, just in case).

The video is age restricted and can only be viewed with this link. It is not publicly posted.

Tomorrow the 3rd video, The AMC from The Godfather Part II, which is where is gets very rules driven...

Enjoy
 

Wraith

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Apols, previous link above was incorrect...The above link has been revised.
W
 

Wraith

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AMC TRIMS 3rd of 3 - Michael (from the Godfather Part II section of the Novel for Television):

There are a further 55 AMC trims, 10 mins worth covering 180 mins of material from The Godfather Part II.
Total trims so far 161, 25 min.

You will now see some of these trims are questionable given the many other areas that could have been trimmed but were not.

This video CONTAINS SPOILERS and violence.

The video is age restricted and can only be viewed with this link. It is not publicly posted.

Enjoy
 

Wraith

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UPDATE

The next few days I will finalize the Artwork for The Godfather: La Fine; my part 3 preservation and extended (slightly) version and load to IFDB.

After that, I will begin the assembly of the chronological movie rebuild in HD.

OPEN QUESTION

The movies will be 4.5 and 5.5 hours each.
Should I add AN INTERMISSION CARD at an appropriate point to each edit?
The Godfather Part II did have an intermission card. These would be placed roughly midway at an appropriate point thus facilitating four segments of 2 hours plus for viewing purposes without the need to randomly break-off.

Thanks

W
 

flaminio

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An Intermission card is welcome in a five hour movie, especially if it comes at a point where you can take a moment and reflect on the events that have happened, and get ready for the rest of the story. Make it nice period appropriate typography with a musical interlude and it would really add to the experience, in my opinion.
 

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Hmmmm...nice touch...thanks. I'll probably use the Intermission card from part 2, but add music as you suggest ....in fact, I'll give a head up that there will be an intermission and I'll use a piece of music from the saga that is not obvious so viewer can go off and make a coffee, iced tea or grab a third tub of Ben & Jerry's.....
 

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EDIT UPDATE

Today I completed the rough assembly and the Intermission placement. We are looking at 10 hours overall. Precise times will follow with my versions analysis of run times, with and without credit rolls. This will give a true picture of how much longer the extended and new rebuild will be compared to all the other versions.

The major work for the next couple of days will be the opening credit roll to match the AMC roll, but removing the registration flutter.

This cannot be done by isolating the chair (which I have and it works) and overlaying new titles. The available fonts are not a precise match for the font used in the movies. This leaves me with only one option. I will screen grab in 2K all the title cards. I will then isolate each credit and clean them up, letter by letter. I will the rotoscope the clean extracted title over the isolated chair. The timing will precisely match the AMC/Novel for television version but with a slight re-ordering of the cast. I will move Robert De Niro up the ranking to appear AFTER Al Pacino. I will also add a Director's credit and Fan Edit credit replacing two instances of "AND" thus not affecting the running time of the credit roll NOR the time each credit appears. This will require creating new letters that do not appear in the opening credit e.g. "F" in Caps does not appear, so I will take a screen grabbed "E" and "T" and replace the bottom of the "E" with the bottom of the "T" to create a perfect "F" for Francis Ford Coppola. I have done this before and it will be undetectable - TRUST ME.

This may take a couple of days, but I will post the remade credits for your preview and comment.

W
 

Wraith

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OPEN QUESTION

Which Paramount logo should I use.

A: Original classic blue per Part 1 and 2 Theatrical versions released on DVD (I have HD versions of that logo)
B: Coppola Restoration Green CGI flying stars version
C: Most recent Paramount logo per Godfather Coda (bright no green hue)

I prefer A: Classic in HD

Any views?
 

sgp1428

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Paramount logo 'A' would be my preference.... Keep your edit a child of it's time as per Part 1 and 2.
 

Wraith

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of PARAMOUNT importance.....

That darn classic logo....
So I pulled a Paramount logo off a blu Ray.....chopped way above the valley.

Pulled a dozen more, basically if the movie is 2:35-1 or 2.4-1, those cheapskate cropped the logo rather than make a new one....

Finally found a 16:9 version and the stars are all wrong....a few discs later and the text and stars are video overlay, harsh and they are static which makes the registration flutter really stand out...

Finally, I found one, but there are spots of black on the transition to the blue end logo...

Then I found a clean blue end logo but the framing in the mountain before it cuts off most of the trees....And then the color grade is all over the place. Every one is different. Then there is the aspect squash or stretch...a few made the stars not in a circle but an oval. For phuks sake, what kind of brand quality control are these people preceding over?!?!

So, I've created a hybrid sourced from 3 different sources....complete, seamless, no dirt, regarded the color, and you just get the valley and all the trees....sweet.

Now back to creating a bespoke alphabet from the title cards to re do them without registration flutter....

The credits may take longer to do than the edit at this rate, but so be it.

This MUST be perfect.

Interestingly, I decided to add John Cazale to the credits and he is in them for the GF Trilogy 1901-1980 but not in Saga or A novel for Television.... Weird !

Then there is the whole color grade question....when you isolate the opening "The Godfather" title card and check the RGB OF THE SUPPOSED WHITE text, no two versions of any film 1, 2 or 3, extended, Saga, Trilogy, Epic and Novel TV match.....so I decided to do this mathematically.


I'll update you how and the results, tomorrow....

Cent Anni

W
 

Wraith

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REALLY "FONTED UP"

Today was interesting again.

All opening credits have issues with font alignment and color. Have a look at Michael Grazzo's credit as Frankie Pentangili to see how all over the place the letters are...especially noticeable on a big screen. Some letters are up to 5 pixels higher than others, and it can be seen. I'm not sure if this is due to how they were made, film stock warpping or what, but they are off.

I have decided to take an average RGB read of the available fonts, and that produces an acceptable balance between white and the green hue of the theatrical versions. 

Since there is NO font available that exactly matches the onscreen version (all have issues) I have today spent the day painstakingly rebuilding each letter from screen grabs in both upper and lower case AND for the two sizes used.

Taking a screen grab needed to be done quite precisely, since the fonts fade in with a hard edge and then continue to GLOW up so the edge softens and the font has a quasi glow to it. Overlaying the static plate of the Chair will create a very clean look, but even with a soft edge, the film grain will be gone. Doing it this way will retain the grain inherent in the lettering but will allow correct alignment and allow me to create some additional credits, notably John Cazale and then the remaining names I need. I also needed to create a few letters from scratch...including an upper case "W" for Wraith.

I have decided NOT to have an overly extended opening credit roll like AMC and a few other chronological versions but it will be longer than just THE GODFATHER since this is a restoration of The Novel for Television/ Trilogy/Saga/Epic which do all have a full opening credit roll. I will stop when the chair crossfades to the montage of the Corleone estate and clips of the protagonists, since this IMHO is a spoiler of sorts by revealing images of what is to come....

Anyway, it will take a few days to complete this, maybe longer, but I have sorted out the Paramount logo too. What a mess that was!!!.

Ciao
W
 

Wraith

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BORING DETAILS....(but I'm really enjoying it...call me odd).

So Here's a thing; I laid a grid over the screen grabs of all the title cards for the AMC version. Only Brando and Pacino's credits are perfect. The remainder all have issues, and those issues vary. Diane Keaton's last 3 letters are low, Sterling Haydens spacing is inconsistent with Brando and Pacino, and the list goes on. All this will be fixed.

Next, I decided to check IMDB for cast spellings...they do go wrong sometimes. Well, sure enough, Robert De Niro is credited as such BUT, IN THE THEATRICAL release, he was credited as Robert DeNiro...(no space)....this was changed for DVD and blu Ray, but the VHS has DeNiro. Since this was how he was originally credited, I am reverting to the credit at original release. Two other cast members have similar issues. This will also be fixed.

The opening credit roll has 14 slots. As I mentioned previously, there are two "and" slots which will be replaced by John Cazale and Gaston Moschin as Don Fanucci....he was credited as such but in DVD and blu Ray, the updated credit is Moschine.... I will revert to 1970s. For the second movie, additional credits will be created for other cast members too.

I also noticed differences even on the same letters from other parts of the credit roll. Some letters were also not on a true verticle, for instance the lower case p has a slight 2-3 degree tilt, which is especially noticeable when you flip it vertically to create a b. This is probably due to the fact that these would have been designed and drawn for the movie and back in 70s they most likely would have been photographed on an animation stand, probably set by hand, and then either rotoscope Onto the plate or rephotographed and combined via an optical printer leading to differential registration issues for the two layers. Even using a stabilisation function in my software does not resolve the problem; in fact, it makes it worse in that portions of the image lock, while other shift and stop. This create that effect you will have seen on TV when foreground and background appear to move out of sync during panning shots. This too will be fixed.

So....why do I bother? Why not just use AMCs opening or the HD versions of the blu Ray. Well, the official HD versions have no credit roll at the open, only the 4 chronological versions do...and they differ from eachother. The Epic, uses much smaller fonts and are centred aligned, the rest are left side justified in a larger font, except Michael Grazzo's credit which inexplicably shifts further left, presumably coz Frankie Pantangeli is a long name, but there is enough room on the right to accommodate this. Must be a 4:3 safe area thing I guess. This too will be corrected.... Oh yea, why bother? Well it's simple. I know I can fix it, it takes time, but if I don't, every time I watch this I will wish I had fixed and it will annoy me ! So there! That why I took forever to release The Hobbit....even 2 years after I locked it, I've gone back and removed more Martin Freeman twitches, and double takes and strange looks, which may need an update being made available at some point if it carries on.

So, that's it for today....probably be quiet now till this phase is over but then again, who knows... I mean, I re-did all the subtitles for Part III coz the font and color were off, and ended up adding text for missing dialogue that was not subtitled....I have a bad feeling about this for Parts I & II.....

Molto bene

W
 

flaminio

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Forgive me if I misunderstood, but you're going with the incorrect spacing of De Niro's name, to match the original theatrical release?

Just my opinion, but as you're fixing so many other things it would seem appropriate to use the corrected spacing.
 

Wraith

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Thank you for chiming in.

This one is not simple....

It appears he went by DeNiro at the time. I was going to go with their credits at the time which were not typos I think; here is why. Since he is also credited as DeNiro in Taxi Driver Credit here..
Taxi Driver (1976) - IMDb
Again DeNiro rather than De Niro. If you go back to 1969, The Wedding Party, he was credited as Robert Denero...so he must have changed his Screen Actors Guild registration a few times since this was followed by 3 more films as DeNiro. If they were typos, he strikes me as the type who might not put up with it.

So I'm correcting the corrections later applied to these films in their home video releases (but NOT VHS). I'm trying to get back to the roots of these films in chronological order, but presenting them as if they were released that way in the 70s.

So, humbly, it is not an incorrect spelling but I can make mistakes since I'm dyslexic...so I will preview the clean credit roll for comment.

OPEN QUESTION:
Does anyone have a view on this....I'm kinda on the fence, leaning to DeNiro....

UPDATE TO FOLLOW: (busy day folks!)
W
 

Wraith

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UPDATE:

All new credits created, and all old ones corrected (massive amount of work).

Most of the old credit issues were spacing and alignment (plus a couple of typos, see previous post).

What I have not done is correct the slight lens aberration which gives letters on the right of the image a slight tilt from right to left meaning the vertical is off by about 1-2 degrees in the worst cases. For some of the new credits, where letters sourced from the right are moved to the left, this sloping is noticable...in those instances I have created a letters that match the slope of the letters either side. This was especially noticeable in the new credit for "ELI WALLACH as Don Altobello". The lower case "b" was way off; it was made from a rotated and flipped "p". It just looked bad. I corrected one edge, but that made the tail wider at the top. In the end, I made a new "b" from and "l" "i" "o" "h" and "d".....Go figure...but looks great now. In total I had to make 17 letters. I won't say which. If they are off, someone will scream at me for sure!!!

I now need to run a few tests and watch on a big screen. A computer monitor is great to work on for this, but not for proof viewing. I will then post a draft credit roll on black for review and comment.

Once the credit rolls are locked, I will lay them onto the correct background plate (there will not be a preview of that)....with that out the way, I can polish up the already assembled edit and then add in and tweak a few things. Then I will check the sub-titles in Parts I and II (as I did for My Part 3 preservation edit).

I need to decide how anal I will be the frame count issue. Wherever possible I will use the longest HD version of every shot available. I think my threshold will be 3 frames. Anything shorter is near undetectable and would only add3 or 4 seconds to the overall length BUT it will halve the number of shots I need to move about. Each shot will almost certainly need sound work to make it seamless. We are looking at circa 60-70 shots verses 130-150. If the sound work is simple or not needed (due to perfect audio alignment), then I may do them all (as I did for my unreleased Blade Runner Every Frame Edit). I'll let ya'll know.

Seeya
W
 

Wraith

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UPDATE

Today I looked at the pre-credit titles...and that's a darn mess of variations (and another errors) too across all versions. Even the theatrical releases vary...in fact...today, if you have 1 minute, I will show you...
As for the commercially available fonts that are out there, well I used that to caption the video...it's useless as you will see.
Let me know what you think!
ENJOY
W


Tomorrow, I will build the new credit rolls.

DONE!

W

ps

I know why the letters slope!!!!!!!  Can you work out why? No, its not film stock warping OR a lens aberration.
Answer tomorrow !
 
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