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Gotham

Gaith

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Not watching the show, but I have been enjoying the What the Flick?! episode reviews:

 

Dwight Fry

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Cobblepot becoming the Joker could make for an interesting reference game if the writers know their comic book history. The Penguin's first known name was not Oswald Cobblepot, it was Mr. Boniface, a name used in the very first story featuring the character, though it's not totally clear if it's his real name or an alias he's using. He was in later stories established as Oswald Chesterfield, and later Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot. (Incidentally, in one unused Batman film script, the character gets his Boniface name back) So if we see one Boniface pop up in later episodes, things might start to fall into place.
 

bionicbob

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Holy Dramatic Twists Batfans!!!

An absolutely OUTSTANDING episode!!!!! Best so far. There was so much action, drama and twists it felt more like a season finale than only a few episodes into the season. The producers have really captured a wonderful balance between gritty crime noir and Bat-villain lunacy. As I said before, I was really hesitant about this show when announced, but by the comic gods, I am loving it!

Though I still do not see how they can maintain this style of storytelling for the long run. Unless they employ Time Jumps between seasons, this show could burn itself out in a season or two.
 

bionicbob

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So the Fall Final was last night. Bruce and Selina are now childhood sweethearts....? I guess it works. It feels sort silver age in approach, but I think they pulled it off. But if Bruce begins to meet ALL of his future villains as a child, I think it will be clear this show is going off the rails... lol. But in the meantime, watching Alfred kick ass was awesome!

While I am still enjoying the show (my daughter LOVES it), it is very uneven at times and some of the choices they made in reimagining some of the Batmyths I do not care for.... the Harvey Dent casting seems wrong to me, plus I always viewed him more of Batman's peer in age. I am surprised the show has not introduced us to the corrupt Police Commissioner yet... this seems so obvious and vital, especially considering Gordon's destiny.

So still a decent entertaining show, but it feels like the producers are still struggling to find their feet a bit.

 

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This show is really hot and miss. There was some good stuff early on but they are losing me lately.

The latest episode with the circus say a new low. The only character had any interest in watching was young Bruce and his meeting with the board at Wayne Enterprises. The main plot with Gordon was awful and the reveal at the end with the villain was obvious and terribly done. The Penguin plot was meh, the stuff with Selina, Ivy and Barbara pointless, and i am sick to death of Fish.

With quality like this on Gotham and the nose dive Arrow has taken I'm going to soon run out of things to watch.
 

Frantic Canadian

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booshman said:
This show is really hot and miss. There was some good stuff early on but they are losing me lately.

The latest episode with the circus say a new low. The only character had any interest in watching was young Bruce and his meeting with the board at Wayne Enterprises. The main plot with Gordon was awful and the reveal at the end with the villain was obvious and terribly done. The Penguin plot was meh, the stuff with Selina, Ivy and Barbara pointless, and i am sick to death of Fish.

With quality like this on Gotham and the nose dive Arrow has taken I'm going to soon run out of things to watch.

I was thinking of calling it quits with Gotham as well, until I saw the preview for last week's episode revealing that The Joker would finally be introduced. I have absolutely no interest in the Barbara storyline, I like The Penguin but I really don't care about the mob aspect, and I cannot stand Fish Mooney. I'm only interest in the exploits of Jim and Bullock, and the Bruce Wayne storyline. Everything else bores me. But get rid of Fish and it'll probably improve the show. Only 5 episodes left this season though so I think I might as well just stick around and finish it off.
 

booshman

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Frantic Canadian said:
I was thinking of calling it quits with Gotham as well, until I saw the preview for last week's episode revealing that The Joker would finally be introduced. I have absolutely no interest in the Barbara storyline, I like The Penguin but I really don't care about the mob aspect, and I cannot stand Fish Mooney. I'm only interest in the exploits of Jim and Bullock, and the Bruce Wayne storyline. Everything else bores me. But get rid of Fish and it'll probably improve the show. Only 5 episodes left this season though so I think I might as well just stick around and finish it off.

Yeah, I'll finish it to see how they finish out the season. I'm just so sick of them ham fisting in any bit of bat-lore that they possibly can. A bit of stuff should be established early on so we know it's a Batman related show, but they're leaving themselves nowhere to go. All the main villains will have been running wild in Gotham for years by the time Bruce is shaving.

I agree with all of the things you said regarding the characters. Some of the mob stuff with Penguin has been quite good, but it's hit and miss. I enjoy Bullock and Gordon, particularly Bullock, I just wish the guy playing Gordon was more consistent, sometimes he's fine, others I don't believe him at all. The stand out is the kid playing Bruce, I think he's doing a great job, if the show was just about him I think I'd be more invested.
 

asterixsmeagol

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Fish is killing the show for me. The actress isn't bad but her dialogue is painful. If they would have simply used her to introduce Cobblepot and then have him replace her I might have liked her better.
 

emphatic

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I keep watching still, but the Penguin really gets on my nerves. Most characters poorly represent how I want them to be portrayed.
 

Solid11

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In my opinion, the problem is they're trying to cater to both Batman fans and the mainstream at the same time, and it's not working...

You can't keep introducing new Batman mythos characters every week and have it be believable. I love the Batman universe, and I want to see LESS cameos!
The first 2 seasons should be focused on the city living and falling in to corruption - that's it. Have the politicians being controlled by the mob families with Wayne Enterprises getting more involved after the death of Thomas Wayne. There's enough there to keep the story going.

Other than that basic premise, it should be a buddy copy drama where Jim and Harvey are solving crimes that are indirectly related to the city's spiraling corruption and greed.

After the first season, you can start to introduce some of the more involved villains. (NEVER show the Joker...) Really get into their backstories and origins. Feel free to jump a year or 2 of time between seasons and have Bruce on the sideline growing up, trying to sort out what to do with his life.

Around season 5-7, end the show on a high note/low note with Bruce leaving Gotham to travel the world and something truly horrendous happening at the GCPD. Something that hits home for Jim and completes the city's fall into corruption and it's need of a "savior" from the outside.


... then start a new series with "Batman: Year One" as the premise and do that for 4-6 seasons.


... sigh... Gonna stop dreaming now...
 

Solid11

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Double post only because they are 2 different topics...

I really would love to see this as the outcome of the Joker reference last week:

Dr Strange is connected with Ace Chemicals and is using some of their "products" to run tests on inmates at Arkham. Some of those chemicals got out and vagrants around the town were using them as a drug. Numerous people are turning up with the same symptoms as the kid from the circus and it's becoming an epidemic. Deranged and happy-go-lucky in the face of murder/horrible circumstances. Hopefully the kid wasn't the Joker's backstory and now we're done; it's just too... silly...

badum pish

Better to not mention him at all than to give him that little of a fanfare.

I guess I hope the Joker is never officially confirmed to being in the show. Keep his backstory mysterious and vague.

Red Hood tonight should be fine - as long as the Joker is not mentioned or alluded to...
 

addiesin

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asterixsmeagol said:
Fish is killing the show for me. The actress isn't bad but her dialogue is painful. If they would have simply used her to introduce Cobblepot and then have him replace her I might have liked her better.

Yeah Fish Mooney is the worst. Kind of a testament to the Batman mythos and its strong characters that the weakest parts of this show are the parts the showrunners made up. Seriously she's like someone took Eartha Kitt and transplanted her from the 60s Batman show into a modern crime procedural. I thought the Joker kid was the best 2 minutes of the whole series so far, but the Robin's parents thing in the same episode was probably the worst 2 minutes of the whole series. Another downside is that now if you think real hard you probably can count the amount of big Batman villains not yet introduced on one hand.

So far:
Catwoman
Penguin
Two Face
Joker
Scarecrow
Hush
Riddler
Hugo Strange (I think)
Dollmaker (I think)
Red Hood character/group
Mr Freeze has been announced

I can think of a few they might do, Clayface, Killer Croc, Scarface, and Mad Hatter. At the rate they burn through these guys, they'll probably get an episode each if even that. After that what's the plan? I really enjoyed the first two or three episodes seeming rise of the serial killer/mob boss Penguin, but then that petered out into him being beaten up by other mobsters every episode.
 

Solid11

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Here is something promising I came across today:

We front-loaded [the show with iconic characters], which we had to do, both for story purposes and marketing purposes. We had to let people know it’s not just a hum-drum police procedural, it’s about these larger than life characters. If you do that you can’t just say, ‘Here’s one larger-than-life character, now wait for next season.’ Once we introduced those initial characters—Penguin, Riddler, Ivy, Selina—then we’ve slowed down with those aspects and we’re bringing in those iconic D.C characters in a much more measured way, which was always the intention. You have to have that amount of spice in the show to make it pop and different. Once the wheels are turning, it’s much easier to bring those characters in in subtle, organic ways. That’s the plan, anyway.
Bruno Heller
 

booshman

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Solid11 said:
Here is something promising I came across today:


Bruno Heller

What is this guy talking about? They front-loaded it and have continued to heap in more characters and references with every episode. It can be an interesting show without relying on pre-existing lore/ characters/ plots. If this guy thinks that Fish and Barbara are making the show "pop", he needs a rethink.
 

addiesin

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While I enjoyed the Red Hood episode, I thought the fake-out in the beginning was really cruel to Batman fans.

The first guy with the titular hood was basically a teenage version of Animated Series Joker, hair and everything, and they killed him off unceremoniously and had someone stuff him in a fridge for Gordon (the audience surrogate) to find.

I don't think I'll stick with this show if it comes back for another season.
 

Solid11

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booshman said:
What is this guy talking about? They front-loaded it and have continued to heap in more characters and references with every episode. It can be an interesting show without relying on pre-existing lore/ characters/ plots. If this guy thinks that Fish and Barbara are making the show "pop", he needs a rethink.
Actually I believe he was saying that the characters like Harvey Dent and Scarecrow are what makes the show pop - the rare big names - not the regular weekly appearances. (Fish didn't exist before, and Barbara is almost never shown in the comics - since she makes Gordon a better character dead - as evidenced by the show... haha)

But yes I agree that there are still introducing too many characters too fast... The coincidences of all these characters running into Gordon every other week is absurd.
 

bionicbob

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wow... four years since the last posting... lol.... I guess that says a lot in of it's self.

Gotham turned into such a bonkers show.  It got to the point where I usually just watch the first and last 2-3 episodes of each season just to how far they have twisted the Bat Mythos.

I must admit I do love the delicious over the top insanity of the villains and often wish my beloved Arrowverse show embraced some of these stylistic and narrative elements into their story telling. Over all it is a show I mostly lost interest in, particularly since I grew to dislike the show's interpretation of Gordon.

But it all comes to an end this week, so I plan to tune in and see how they decide to wrap it all up.   I believe it involves a time jump, so the question becomes will be actually see the Dark Knight or will it take the Smallville approach?

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKC30OLyLkI[/video]
 

bionicbob

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I gotta admit, pretty epic looking trailer....

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXYtd9Pt-m0[/video]

Great casting for the adult Selina!

hhmmm.... 10 year time jump but still no iconic Gordon moustache or glasses.. lol :p
 

bionicbob

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Watched the series finale.... it was... fine.

They sort of went with the Smallville approach... Batman is present throughout the episode, but you only hear his voice, while the camera found clever ways to hide him... keeping him off screen, hidden in shadows, over the back shoulder shots, other character's point of view, etc.   Though it worked better than Smallville (where they kept Superman as a tiny in the distance cgi character or extreme close up's of Welling's face but no view of the suit) since it fits with Batman's mysterious shadowy nature.  And it is just as well, as the show does reward viewers with a full on Batman shot in the last 10 seconds and to be honest, it was a bit disappointing...lol... 

Otherwise it was a fairly standard by the numbers Gotham episode.  

Bring on BATWOMAN!   :D
 
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